Sciencemadness Discussion Board

How to get metal/metal oxides?

khourygeo77 - 11-4-2017 at 22:29

So I was trying to make metal/mineral oxides by turning them into salts that supposedly decompose at common kitchen fire. I worked on magnesium for example, and got its acetate that decomposes at 350 deg. I heated the acetate on that temperature but instead of decomposing and turning into a white magnesium oxide, it blackened then eventually turned a little grey without becoming pure. There is absolutely no contamination in the process. I have tried this on zinc acetate, and same thing happened.

Any idea on how to get the real white oxides of zinc or magnesium for example? Unfortunately, I cant get the different kinds of torches here that many would use in other countries, the ones that would quickly oxidize anything with the high heat

Thanks

Rhodanide - 12-4-2017 at 05:46

Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  
So I was trying to make metal/mineral oxides by turning them into salts that supposedly decompose at common kitchen fire. I worked on magnesium for example, and got its acetate that decomposes at 350 deg. I heated the acetate on that temperature but instead of decomposing and turning into a white magnesium oxide, it blackened then eventually turned a little grey without becoming pure. There is absolutely no contamination in the process. I have tried this on zinc acetate, and same thing happened.

Any idea on how to get the real white oxides of zinc or magnesium for example? Unfortunately, I cant get the different kinds of torches here that many would use in other countries, the ones that would quickly oxidize anything with the high heat

Thanks


Good question!
One way is to just burn them in metal form.
Both Zinc and Magnesium metal can be burned by a normal methane burner, you just need to be careful, and have good ventilation so as not to get MFF (Metal Fume Fever, it's terrible.) from the dusty zinc oxide.
If you only have access to the compounds, then yes- acetates are a good place to start.

However, this is not the best way, for MgO that is. That would go to the hydroxide decomposition method. Combine concentrated solutions of NaOH or any Alkali OH salt and Magnesium Sulfate, also known as Epsom Salt.
You'll get a gel, most likely. Filter the solution and keep the gel. Dry this however you like. Note this also works just fine for the Carbonate, just substitute the OH for Sodium Carbonate (DON'T use NaHCO3, I've found it to be quite unreliable. Remember- if you only have NaHCO3 then just heat it up in a pan for a long time, or until no more gas comes off it. I usually do this for 30-45 minutes) Just heat either the MgCO3 or Mg(OH)2 strongly. I'm not sure how long, so someone else can pitch in hopefully and give their two cents on how long they heated it. As for the Zinc, I can only assume that given their similarity, the same process is likely viable for Zinc as well. Don't quote me on that, for I'm not completely sure.


EDIT: It is also likely that it was something wrong with whatever you used to contain the material whilst you heated it.

[Edited on 12-4-2017 by Tetra]

khourygeo77 - 19-4-2017 at 06:16

Quote: Originally posted by Tetra  
Quote: Originally posted by khourygeo77  
So I was trying to make metal/mineral oxides by turning them into salts that supposedly decompose at common kitchen fire. I worked on magnesium for example, and got its acetate that decomposes at 350 deg. I heated the acetate on that temperature but instead of decomposing and turning into a white magnesium oxide, it blackened then eventually turned a little grey without becoming pure. There is absolutely no contamination in the process. I have tried this on zinc acetate, and same thing happened.

Any idea on how to get the real white oxides of zinc or magnesium for example? Unfortunately, I cant get the different kinds of torches here that many would use in other countries, the ones that would quickly oxidize anything with the high heat

Thanks


Good question!
One way is to just burn them in metal form.
Both Zinc and Magnesium metal can be burned by a normal methane burner, you just need to be careful, and have good ventilation so as not to get MFF (Metal Fume Fever, it's terrible.) from the dusty zinc oxide.
If you only have access to the compounds, then yes- acetates are a good place to start.

However, this is not the best way, for MgO that is. That would go to the hydroxide decomposition method. Combine concentrated solutions of NaOH or any Alkali OH salt and Magnesium Sulfate, also known as Epsom Salt.
You'll get a gel, most likely. Filter the solution and keep the gel. Dry this however you like. Note this also works just fine for the Carbonate, just substitute the OH for Sodium Carbonate (DON'T use NaHCO3, I've found it to be quite unreliable. Remember- if you only have NaHCO3 then just heat it up in a pan for a long time, or until no more gas comes off it. I usually do this for 30-45 minutes) Just heat either the MgCO3 or Mg(OH)2 strongly. I'm not sure how long, so someone else can pitch in hopefully and give their two cents on how long they heated it. As for the Zinc, I can only assume that given their similarity, the same process is likely viable for Zinc as well. Don't quote me on that, for I'm not completely sure.


EDIT: It is also likely that it was something wrong with whatever you used to contain the material whilst you heated it.

[Edited on 12-4-2017 by Tetra]


You were right. I reacted with ammonia, and got magnesium hydroxide, then upon heat, decomposition into oxide was very easy.


Do you think this may be the case for most metals and minerals?

Fulmen - 19-4-2017 at 08:17

Many useful or otherwise interesting metals can be precipitated as hydroxides or carbonates, both can easily be converted into the oxide by heating. Be aware that ammonia can dissolve many metals as ammonia complexes, in these instances you can use sodium hydroxide.

yobbo II - 19-4-2017 at 14:08

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=71009

If you can get access to a furnace and steam you can make metal oxides easily. Just add steam to the furnace and place the metals inside in non contaminating containers (alumina?)
I have tries this with iron, copper, titanium some stainless steels (don't know composition).
Nickle seems to hold up well (no conversion).
I presume the copper and Ti were converted to oxides. What else could the crispy brittle stuff they were converted into, be?

Yob