Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Does anyone have experience setting up an account with Sigma?

Does anyone have experience setting up an account with Sigma?

Sidmadra - 17-2-2017 at 20:04

I'm going to be renting a commercial building to work on some ideas that I'm aiming to turn into a start up, however I notice only Sigma carries the majority of the chemicals that I need, none of them are suspicious, just various reagents.

I've remember reading many years ago about Sigma being annoying to setup an account with, whereas I've heard others say you just need to tell them about your business and have a non-residential address.

Does anyone have experience with this? Do I need to file as a business with my state and show them that paperwork? Do I need to setup a tax id for my business? What all would they request from me?

[Edited on 18-2-2017 by Sidmadra]

JJay - 17-2-2017 at 20:27

They do have some kind of background checking that they do. I don't have any details on this, but I would expect that they know how to check public court records, corporate filings, business licenses, etc. If you're a multiple felon ordering chemicals to your grandmother's basement, they're going to notice. I would expect that resellers get exposed to the strictest scrutiny. I've been kind of thinking about setting up an account with them, but I'd like to take advantage of their new lab promotion and get some deeply discounted chemicals and equipment.

Sidmadra - 17-2-2017 at 20:36

I can easily file an LLC with my state if needed, though I notice they make multiple references to needing a credit card which I don't have. I have a debit card, but no credit card. I will contact their live chat on Monday and explain to them my situation, but they seem to be closed on the weekends.

macckone - 17-2-2017 at 22:36

Yeah, they want a business credit card.
Some banks will do secured business credit cards.
Which is basically a debit card with a minimum balance attached.

WGTR - 18-2-2017 at 10:00

I know you specifically mentioned Sigma, so I suppose you've already checked out Fisher, and they didn't have what you need. Anyway, I asked our Fisher rep some time ago if they do business with individuals and was told that they will sell to anybody, but they will restrict sales on hazardous items. In other words, one could probably buy hot plates, beakers, baking soda, etc. Chromic acid would probably require a business license and a demonstrated legitimate need for the chemical. It'll be interesting to see if Sigma is similar.

At the end of the day, everyone is trying to cover their own backsides. I vaguely remember a news story where a young woman wanted to kill herself, so she carefully crafted an order that contained not only a cyanide, but everything one needed to do legitimate silver plating. When the supplier contacted her she had all the right answers to their questions. She then killed herself with the cyanide, and the big news story was where she bought her chemicals (I think it was Sigma, if I remember correctly).

[Edited on 2-18-2017 by WGTR]

Sidmadra - 18-2-2017 at 13:43

Unfortunately over half of the things I need are hazardous. I'm also not sure about Fischer but I know Sigma has a pretty low standard for what constitutes a hazardous item.

If all they want is an explanation for my chemical uses, I can easily do that. I have paper references I can show them if they wish. None of them are really ideal for committing suicide lol. I don't think throwing butyllithium on myself would be a very nice way to go.

AvBaeyer - 18-2-2017 at 19:34

A few years back I set up an account with Sigma-Aldrich for a newly started biotech company. We had to provide them with all sorts of paperwork to show we were a real company (business license. names of officers, etc.) We also had to certify that we had the proper facilities to receive, store and use any chemicals we might order. This took considerable time and effort but once all this was done all went well. I was able to order things for the company using my personal credit card. This probably worked because I was listed as an officer. Bottom line is that S-A is very strict about setting up accounts. I found that other vendors were much less strict but they had higher prices and not the broad catalog of items.

AvB

Sidmadra - 18-2-2017 at 22:20

AvBaeyer, I do plan to get my business license and everything else in order. I also have sufficient facilities for storage and handling of my chemicals; fume hoods, fire cabinets and such.

Would they have a problem if I am the only officer/employee?

One problem I anticipate having is getting a business credit card. I don't even have a personal credit card. I've already talked to the bank and they said it's unlikely I will be able to get a credit card on a newly established business account. Surely a debit card would be suitable? I would hope Sigma would not turn me down just because my business entity is new.

macckone - 18-2-2017 at 23:10

See my previous comment about a secured credit card.

Sidmadra - 18-2-2017 at 23:17

I will ask another bank about a secured credit card, since I believe my current bank doesn't offer them anymore.

I hope I don't have too much trouble. I read a post by another poster in another thread that even though he had all of his business records with the state in order, Alfa Aesar said they wanted 2 years of banking records as evidence. Hopefully none of the major companies will decline me for being new. I hope that with all my paperwork in order, a legitimate business established, and a commercial facility, they won't be able to decline me. It seems unreasonable for them to decline a new customer on the sole basis of them being a new business.

JJay - 19-2-2017 at 01:49

I would think that you could set up a cash account with Alfa Aesar without showing them your bank records. Are you sure you're really ready to play with Sigma Aldrich's toys?

Sidmadra - 19-2-2017 at 03:43

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

I would think that you could set up a cash account with Alfa Aesar without showing them your bank records. Are you sure you're really ready to play with Sigma Aldrich's toys?

Haha, I've been ordering things from Sigma via a local chemical seller for quite some time now. I'm just starting to get tired having to make a two hour round trip to pick up every order from the seller. With that said I am fairly comfortable in handling a variety of sensitive materials.

I do appreciate you looking out however. I can recall reading about quite a number of amateur chemist deaths over the years from hazardous chemicals.

JJay - 19-2-2017 at 03:47

I haven't read about many, but chemists have certainly died over the centuries, and it's hard to think of a more dangerous hobby, really. I know I've had my share of near-disasters. I suppose jogging causes more injuries....

adk - 21-2-2017 at 14:20

It took me three years to get an account with Sigma-Aldrich. They sell (and stock) a number of materials I can not obtain from any other supplier.

In Australia, you need a verifiable trading history, a registered company (sole traders need not apply), a detailed explanation of your business activities and trade references from three other suppliers. You will also need a commercial trading address for delivery and website.

Also, you will need to have a "payment with order" account for 12 months before Sigma-Aldrich will consider providing a credit account.

Once you have an account however, Sigma-Aldrich are fantastic. Staff are very helpful and they keep a wide variety of materials in stock, so delivery happens quickly.

I also have accounts with Thermo Fisher, Merck Millipore and a few smaller suppliers; these were a little easier to organise.

What kind of materials are you after? Perhaps I can assist.

Cheers,

A

Melgar - 23-2-2017 at 11:29

It was surprisingly easy to open an account using my university lab address, where I was working as a research assistant. This is despite the fact that the lab was a computer lab, I used a personal credit card to pay for things, and I'd been searched and questioned by the ATF in the past regarding my possession of a legal, but suspicious chemical.* It probably helped that we shared a floor with the chemical engineering department, so the receiving office was used to getting packages with scary-looking warning labels plastered all over them. I ordered benzaldehyde, bromine, cyanogen bromide, dinitrophenol again, n-nitropropane, and a few others that required hazmat shipping and I didn't care to synthesize myself. I wish I would have ordered some thionyl chloride; I doubt it would have raised any red flags, and since the university had regular hazmat deliveries, the delivery cost wasn't even that outlandish. For business deliveries, depending on where you live, you may be able to order through a local chemical supplier for a lot cheaper. Most of the cost is hazmat shipping, which is less per item if you buy them regularly. Also, a lot of chemical suppliers will just order anything they don't stock from some other supplier, and a lot of times those suppliers are ones you aren't aware of, that have better prices than Sigma does.

* 2,4-dinitrophenol. I was storing the unopened package in my brother's garage, and his idiot roommate found it while straightening up. Naturally, he called the fire department instead of me, even though my name was right on it. It escalated from there, and resulted in the entire street being blocked off at one point. No charges were pressed due to the incident.

zed - 23-2-2017 at 14:04

Sigma....AKA Sigma Aldrich. Yup! They can sell reagents nobody else can supply you with.
But, don't buy on back-order. You can grow old, waiting for a back-order to be filled.

If, they decide to give you an account, fine. But.......

Personally, I used to order their fine reagents via Daiggers.

Stuff came promptly, and I didn't have to screw around with qualifying.

Last time I contacted Aldrich directly, they were very antsy, very weird.

That was a while ago. Hopefully, they are more friendly now.

Might depend on what country you are in. Here in the U.S., it might depend on what part of the country you are in.

[Edited on 23-2-2017 by zed]

LD5050 - 23-2-2017 at 21:28

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Personally, I used to order their fine reagents via Daiggers.

Stuff came promptly, and I didn't have to screw around with qualifying.

[Edited on 23-2-2017 by zed]

How difficult is it to set up an account with Daiggers? What sort of requirements have to be met?

Magpie - 24-2-2017 at 08:29

Daigger used to sell chemicals not too many years ago. Last time I checked they only had a few analytical reagents. When I discovered them they were selling to individuals and seemed to be in a closeout mode. I bought several chemicals at very good (low) prices.

I tried to set up an account with Fischer but the district sales manager was a real prick. He wouldn't even sell me some glass beakers - tried to convince me to buy plastic ones instead! I told him I was going to buy glass from eBay. Now if you just call and use a credit card they will sell almost any equipment no problem. They do screw up orders, however. I prefer VWR and Carolina Biological.

karlos³ - 24-2-2017 at 12:58

Fischer scientific is getting worse for small time purchases, lately they pull out extra fees on what seems to be totally random descisions.

Lillica - 24-2-2017 at 17:59

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Personally, I used to order their fine reagents via Daiggers.

Stuff came promptly, and I didn't have to screw around with qualifying
[Edited on 23-2-2017 by zed]

Are you saying Daiggers will order things from Sigma at special request? I've known a couple of places to do this, but they were only small local stores and not online retailers. I would love to find an online retailer that will let me order Sigma items through them without the hassle of an account.

JJay - 24-2-2017 at 18:19

Quote: Originally posted by Lillica

Quote: Originally posted by zed

Personally, I used to order their fine reagents via Daiggers.

Stuff came promptly, and I didn't have to screw around with qualifying
[Edited on 23-2-2017 by zed]

I haven't actually bought anything from them, but I'm pretty sure that Elemental Scientific is willing to special order chemicals for hobbyists.

zed - 28-2-2017 at 19:00

Dunno. I'm talking about ancient times. Used to walk in to Daiggers in Richmond, CA., and order what I needed.

Daiggers was a pretty big place. I suppose they used to bundle all of their weekly Aldrich orders together, and send 'em down the line.

Even my U. didn't order directly from Aldrich. They used to order Aldrich via VWR. And, VWR didn't service us in a prompt manner, at all. Our $1,000 to $10,000 type of orders, were chickenfeed to them.

Now, Aldrich always answered my technical questions, AND art questions, promptly.
But, I was never a big enough cheese, to do BUSINESS with them directly.

Now, if you have exotic reagents you would like to SELL to Aldrich, and you can afford to do so. Perhaps it would be easier to establish a direct account.

Those Myriads of exotic reagents in the Aldrich Catalog, come from somewhere. Sometimes, from little guys like us.

[Edited on 1-3-2017 by zed]