Sciencemadness Discussion Board

96% Sulfuric acid

Db33 - 23-1-2017 at 15:59

Im very happy i found 96% pure sulfuric acid in my local hardware store.
This guy is one of my fav youtube chemists and before i found this video i was always unsure about what the purest OTC sulfuric acid solution was avvailable. I had previously used Liquid fire and for most uses its good but the stuff i used was a dark brown color. This stuff is crystal clear and has less than 0.03 dissolved solid contamination and he even says its near reagent grade. So while im sure you can get better stuff online, sulfuric acid is always one thing i hope i dont have to have to order in the mail. But yeah i hope it continues to be around. I notice only 1 store in this area sells it so im not sure how common it is but its a great buy since its only $7 per quart.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bweWvb0wws

Maroboduus - 23-1-2017 at 16:18

Probably not too easy to find in some areas, since they sell it on Amazon at a HUGE markup.

$39 a quart!
And somebody else on there is trying to sell 1/2 gallons for $274 plus $180 shipping cost!

One of the Amazon vendors also says, "Not for sale in the state of Tennessee on penalty of seizure."

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 16:29

I find that there are some slight yellow impurities in that brand, but it is definitely slightly stronger than most drain cleaner sulfuric acid. I'm not 100% certain that it doesn't contain inhibitors.

I've been looking at picking up a quartz distillation flask for distilling some really pure 98% sulfuric acid, but they aren't cheap.

[Edited on 24-1-2017 by JJay]

Db33 - 23-1-2017 at 16:38

Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus  
Probably not too easy to find in some areas, since they sell it on Amazon at a HUGE markup.

$39 a quart!
And somebody else on there is trying to sell 1/2 gallons for $274 plus $180 shipping cost!

One of the Amazon vendors also says, "Not for sale in the state of Tennessee on penalty of seizure."



EXACTLY why i think its worth checking things out locally first. In fact this same store i got 1 pound of pure sodium hydroxide for $2.99.
I have always been of the thought... get as many items over the counter as you can. Save the chem supply houses and other online orders for things you cant get. For example i dont think id ever buy Hydrochloric acid or Sulfuric Acid by delivery. But Nitric acid is different and will probably have to be ordered online if i ever need some.

Its remarkable seeing the markup prices of some of these items. from $7 to $35 makes no sense to me.

Maroboduus - 23-1-2017 at 18:43

I'm fortunate enough to live near a few chemical supply houses. I can buy quite a few reagents over the counter for cash with no records at all.. (If the bill is under $100. I think there's still some law about lab purchases over $100 where I am.)

But I totally agree about checking local sources. I only use reagent grade stuff when it is really needed. Saves a lot of money to use tech or industrial grade when that's good enough for your purposes. And then there's purifying them yourself too.

Nitric acid is actually really easy to make, especially if you just want the azeotropic stuff. Many threads about it here.

In fact, it would be a great way to take advantage of that new distillation setup.

JJay - 23-1-2017 at 19:22

Businesses like that usually want to keep customer information on file for marketing purposes, especially if they think you will be a repeat customer. They often have different pricing levels depending on how they view you as a customer, with cash customers and infrequent customers paying more than everyone else (unless they have an even higher price level for competitors). Most of their transaction volume is through short-term credit accounts with businesses that order chemicals and then later receive an invoice.

Db33 - 24-1-2017 at 07:12

what is the standard for Reagent grade? Is there such a thing? In a youtube video the guy was saying how most OTC sulfuric acid drain openers are around 93% and that he wanted to distill it to get it to 98% which he says was Reagent grade. Now, knowing that this brand that i have is pretty much exactly 96% pure, with a very small 0.03% of dissolved contaminents, i dont suppose that would meet the standards of reagent grade, but is there a specific percent that something has to be before its specified Reagent, or Lab, or Industrial.

Maroboduus - 24-1-2017 at 09:28

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
Businesses like that usually want to keep customer information on file for marketing purposes, especially if they think you will be a repeat customer. They often have different pricing levels depending on how they view you as a customer, with cash customers and infrequent customers paying more than everyone else (unless they have an even higher price level for competitors). Most of their transaction volume is through short-term credit accounts with businesses that order chemicals and then later receive an invoice.



Nope, Not how the places I frequent operate.
Hope this isn't too big a disappointment to you.

JJay - 24-1-2017 at 09:36

With all due respect, I don't think you are very well informed on business practices; your ignorance may be a disappointment, but don't confuse it with the facts.

JJay - 24-1-2017 at 09:44

Quote: Originally posted by Db33  
what is the standard for Reagent grade? Is there such a thing? In a youtube video the guy was saying how most OTC sulfuric acid drain openers are around 93% and that he wanted to distill it to get it to 98% which he says was Reagent grade. Now, knowing that this brand that i have is pretty much exactly 96% pure, with a very small 0.03% of dissolved contaminents, i dont suppose that would meet the standards of reagent grade, but is there a specific percent that something has to be before its specified Reagent, or Lab, or Industrial.


The American Chemical Society publishes standards that should be met for a chemical to be considered ACS grade. Usually, in the United States, "reagent grade" means "ACS grade."

Maroboduus - 24-1-2017 at 10:42

Quote: Originally posted by JJay  
With all due respect, I don't think you are very well informed on business practices; your ignorance may be a disappointment, but don't confuse it with the facts.


I am not overly concerned with what you *think* about business practices of companies you have never dealt with and do not even know the names of.

Nor do I concur with your above statement that what *you think* is synonymous with *the facts*.

I hope this is not another disappointment to you.

I also wouldn't want this to become personal. I am aware that you are close personal friends with the governor, and every member of the state legislature and I certainly don't want anyone with such IMMENSE power at his fingertips angry at me.
Likewise the deep and abiding respect that virtually everyone on this site must feel for a man such as you could well lead to my ostracism here, and even in the many other venues where you no doubt wield similarly gigantic influence.

Perhaps you would condescend to do me a small favor by helping me to better understand my own shortcomings in comparison to your own august self.

Just how ignorant am I?



Texium - 24-1-2017 at 11:16

Maroboduus, JJay: If you can't quit with this petty stuff about the intricacies of the way various chemical suppliers run their businesses intertwined with personal attacks, I'm going to have to ask Bert to temporarily suspend both of you from posting, and I really don't want to do that. Please keep it civil. Try not to make your replies to one another sound like attacks. You KNOW that it's going to go downhill as soon as you do that.

As I said before, you're both valued members with good contributions here, so please don't let this feud you seem to have spoil it for others.

JJay - 24-1-2017 at 11:41

I just plainly stated the facts. If he wants a feud... seriously, Maroboduus, just leave me alone.

aga - 24-1-2017 at 12:23

JJay's comment regarding Business are pretty much spot on IMHO - techniques akin to those mentioned have worked well for me over the past 30+ years.

Maroboduus's barbed reply is puzzling.

All pretty much pointless, and hardly Amateur Chemist in nature at all.

The OP has not said what the H2SO4 is for, so no comment can be made as to the suitability of his purchased reagent.

... or is that kind of thing irrelevant to supposed 'chemists' these days ?

Maroboduus - 24-1-2017 at 15:00

I heartily apologize for the business practices of my suppliers; and any distress or bad feelings my ill-considered posts about them may have engendered.

aga - 24-1-2017 at 15:42

Quote: Originally posted by Maroboduus  
distress or bad feelings my ill-considered posts

Hey, i've made more than my fair share of those, so don't feel bad at all.

Focus on the Chemistry instead of Egos or Personalities, as that is supposed to be why we are all here.

This forum is intended to nurture Chemistry, as far as i know.

Feel free to Attack, reasonably, if you see non-Chemistry happening.

The Mods can't be expected to read & police every single comment made here.

Genuine members of SM should play their part in keeping the House clean, and maintaining Standards.

Currently, in my estimation, we've Fallen a long way.

If the genuine amateur chemists here take even a small part in the 'cleanup' we can have a more active and relevant forum within a year.

As far as i recall, ScienceMadness should be all about Chemistry.

Edit:

Amateur Chemists do not know everything, but certainly Do some Chemistry, as and when time allows.

Human nature dictates that the Success (always) or Failure(sometimes) must be shared, preferrably with photos.

This simple fact makes it very easy to tell a troll from an actual Amateur Chemist.

[Edited on 25-1-2017 by aga]

Melgar - 24-1-2017 at 20:38

Lots of companies have different prices for retail and wholesale, whether they're chemical suppliers or not. Plenty of places don't, too. It just depends on the business.

Maroboduus - 24-1-2017 at 22:07

Quote: Originally posted by aga  


Human nature dictates that the Success (always) or Failure(sometimes) must be shared, preferrably with photos.

This simple fact makes it very easy to tell a troll from an actual Amateur Chemist.

[Edited on 25-1-2017 by aga]

We differ on that score.
Don't see much point in writing up anything already adequately covered here unless some innovation has been made, or at least tested and found wanting. Or unless advice is needed.

And my idea of advice isn't needing to be talked through a reaction on a long thread because of insufficient research or general lack of understanding of the reagents or solvents you're working with. Or of the actual purpose and meaning of the paper you're working from. In this matter I share some of your admirably independent nature, but lack your more extensive experience here.


I am not interested in posting until I have something I find interesting and well characterized, and have systematically explored. Photos will still not be likely. As I own no camera, my work will remain obscura.

As to your assertions about 'trolls' and 'amateur chemists', a bit of browsing on this site reveals more than a few trolls who just love posting their 'work'.

To not cause any others discomfiture by mentioning examples who have been recently posting and trolling here I will just say one word: quantumspacealchemyst. He posted lots of pretty pictures and long detailed descriptions of his 'work'. Mostly his attempts to either build super-heavy atoms by chemical means, or perhaps just to give himself erbium poisoning. Or was it terbium poisoning?

I know we have our differences, but do I go around implying you're a troll? No, of course not. Never have. Never wanted to. However here you are attacking me in just this way.

Perhaps the best way to deal with this would be to nae post a write-up at all. It would certainly be no skin off my arse.

I could just make comments.

Or even just haunt the board like a silent ghost.


It would just be:

Like
Going
Away










Db33 - 25-1-2017 at 06:31

i apologize if anyone has been upset by my posts. I never wanted to be seen as a troll or someone wasting spare or time on this forum. I think i may post once in a while a little to much simply because i am not a college graduate chemist, everything i know about chemistry ive learned on the internet and people on this site i consider to be the finest amateur chemist minds. So i simply seek information from this site because i am so grateful for this site and a little over eager to learn all i can from such brilliant people. I do apologize though, i just want to be apart of this community but i dont want to cause any problems.