Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Fluoroantimonic + Hydrogen Peroxide Reaction?

ArcticWolf - 1-11-2016 at 22:08

Anybody have any idea on what would happen if hydrogen peroxide was mixed with fluoroantimonic acid?

Or in any case, what would be needed for the acid to become volatile?

Meltonium - 2-11-2016 at 17:47

Two words: Bad things.

Fluoroantimonic acid is much to acidic to study intensely, so I can say with 90% certainty that nobody here knows what would happen. However, since you just added an oxidizer to a superacid, I'm guessing fire or thermal runaway of the reaction.

Why would you want this acid volatile?

Metacelsus - 2-11-2016 at 18:27

Assuming there's nothing around to oxidize, you'd probably just end up with protonated hydrogen peroxide.

If there was something available to oxidize, the protonated hydrogen peroxide would oxidize it, and probably cause an explosion.

j_sum1 - 2-11-2016 at 19:47

Fluoroantimonic acid is incompatible with water. Incompatible in this context means violent explosion (apparently; I don't speak from experience.)
There is no reason to suggest that the reaction with peroxide would be any less problematic and every reason to think it would be worse.

chornedsnorkack - 2-11-2016 at 23:56

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Fluoroantimonic acid is incompatible with water. Incompatible in this context means violent explosion (apparently; I don't speak from experience.)


Would the result of mixing of hydrogen fluoride and water be described as "violent explosion"?

ArcticWolf - 23-11-2016 at 18:48

Would anything different occur if Sulfuric Acid was mixed with Fluoroantimonic Acid? Or similar to Hydrogen Peroxide?

j_sum1 - 23-11-2016 at 20:43

Fluoroantimonic acid is sufficiently feisty as to be ell outside the knowledge and experience of nearly everyone here I would expect. And there are good reasons for amateur chemists to steer clear of fluorine chemistry -- let alone play with superacids. These things are highly specialised. I know enough about fluoroantimonic acid to know that if I ever saw its label on a container I would quietly retreat into the next room. I suspect that I am not alone in this.


The short answer to your question is probably "bang". Exactly what kind of bang and by what exact mechanism -- really who cares?

It is nice to have questions like these but even better when there is some knowledge of the question being asked or some kind of application or ... well, something.
I recommend starting with what you know and not diving for the fringe and specialised. There are enough interesting things to learn in acid-base chemistry before reaching for the most potent superacid known.

chornedsnorkack - 26-11-2016 at 02:26

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Fluoroantimonic acid is sufficiently feisty as to be ell outside the knowledge and experience of nearly everyone here I would expect. And there are good reasons for amateur chemists to steer clear of fluorine chemistry -- let alone play with superacids. These things are highly specialised. I know enough about fluoroantimonic acid to know that if I ever saw its label on a container I would quietly retreat into the next room. I suspect that I am not alone in this.


The short answer to your question is probably "bang". Exactly what kind of bang and by what exact mechanism -- really who cares?

I care, and I´m sure many do.
What happens if water is mixed with sulphuric acid?
The answer is that it depends.
Water is very soluble in sulphuric acid. Concentrated sulphuric acid has a low partial pressure of water.
So if you mix water with sulphuric acid, you suppress water vapour evolution?
Maybe - if you choose a good procedure to dissolve water in sulphuric acid.
If you don´t... Water is so soluble in sulphuric acid that solution is exothermic. Therefore the water added to sulphuric acid heats up, which promotes evaporation of water.

So... how soluble is hydrogen fluoride in sulphuric acid? Is the process of dissolving hydrogen fluoride in sulphuric acid exothermic?

CuReUS - 26-11-2016 at 23:18

you can find the answer in this video -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3xyICmQHy8

[Edited on 27-11-2016 by CuReUS]

Chlorine - 27-11-2016 at 07:07

That clearly isn't fluoroantimonic acid, he was storing it in a simple plastic bottle.
Also the sulfuric did more damage in a few seconds than the "fluoroantimonic acid" did, considering fluoroantimonic acid is 10^22 times stronger then sulfuric.

Regards,

stoichiometric_steve - 27-11-2016 at 08:56

Quote: Originally posted by Chlorine  
That clearly isn't fluoroantimonic acid, he was storing it in a simple plastic bottle.



It's an aqueous solution, limiting its acidity to that of H3O+ ions. Pretty much useless as a demonstration since he could have used any other acid stronger than H3O+ with the same outcome.

But hey, he made 4 grand off of that shit.

CuReUS - 28-11-2016 at 01:30

Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  

It's an aqueous solution

from wiki -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid
Quote:
Like most strong acids, fluoroantimonic acid can react violently with water, owing to the exothermic hydration. Consequently, it cannot be used in aqueous solution, only in hydrofluoric solution

Quote: Originally posted by Chlorine  
That clearly isn't fluoroantimonic acid, he was storing it in a simple plastic bottle.

In case you didn't notice,that bottle had teflon tape around the cap.
Even HF in stored in plastic bottles,does that make it less dangerous ?

[Edited on 28-11-2016 by CuReUS]

chornedsnorkack - 28-11-2016 at 08:22

Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS  
Quote: Originally posted by stoichiometric_steve  

It's an aqueous solution

from wiki -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoroantimonic_acid
Quote:
Like most strong acids, fluoroantimonic acid can react violently with water, owing to the exothermic hydration. Consequently, it cannot be used in aqueous solution, only in hydrofluoric solution


Linked from Wiley, an inaccessible site.