Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Solubility of components

Solubility of components

cyberzed - 17-11-2006 at 10:40

Hi all, i'm looking for a good reference for solubility parameters of compounds.
What i do currently is looking up the msds of the compound i want to know the solubility parameters from but they only list the solubility in water.

Is there a place where you can look up the solubility parameters of compounds in different solvents?

SecretSquirrel - 17-11-2006 at 11:04

Are you looking for the solubility of any particular compound in a particular solvent. If so, could you please tell us and maybe someone can answer your question. Or you can try serching The Merck Index.

Maya - 17-11-2006 at 11:29

yep, for organic compounds in organic solvents usually don't get much specific data from HofCandP.

a little more specific data is in merck as suggested. Ultimately, the data is usually reported once, by the original authors that first made that particular compound so for uncommom cmpnds may have to do a lit search in maybe Beilstein's and look up the original papers

another place besides Beilstein's is Dictionary of Chemical Compounds , if U have access

cyberzed - 18-11-2006 at 17:43

I am a bit new to the merck though, but it seems to me that for this you would require a subscription to do this online?
I have seen that they have this in books and on cd database but i don't have those.

Maya, what exactly is HofCandP?

I also found the chemfinder from cambridgestone where i was able to register freely and was able to search some general info about compounds, but also only water as solubility parameters.
Does someone has a link where i would be able to take a good starting point?

SecretSquirrel - 19-11-2006 at 01:47

Yes, to search online Merck database you have to pay subscription fee, but almost any scientific library has Merck index in paper form on their shelves, so you might want to check there first.

Maya - 19-11-2006 at 03:49

handbook of chemistry and physics ,ed-1-85

not everything is avalable online, unlike they would like you to believe.\\

somethimes you actually have to walk to the Library and do a chem lit search and , gaaaack! , open a book!

Between these references are every single Organic compound ever created probably

Merck
Beilstein's
Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
Properties of Organic Compounds
Combined Chemical Dictionary

Nicodem - 19-11-2006 at 04:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Maya
Between these references are every single Organic compound ever created probably

Merck
Beilstein's
Handbook of Chemistry and Physics
Properties of Organic Compounds
Combined Chemical Dictionary

I disagree. Not even Beilstein, SciFinder or Gmelin index everything, not even everything in the academic research. For example, they don't index theses where many reactions and compounds are reported in details, yet often only a part of any thesis gets published in journals. Not to mention that they can only index public information since most of the industry research never gets published. The other problem with these search engines is that they simply fail so often. For example, you might check SciFinder (aka Chemical Abstracts) for the synthesis of a certain compound by searching for the structure. You will get a couple of hits. But then you check several publishers' search engines by using the compound name and you might find several other references missed by SciFinder. This happens to me all the time and it is becoming a problem since the academic researchers got so incredibly spoiled by SciFinder and Beilstein that they got to rely solely on these.

cyberzed - 19-11-2006 at 10:24

Ok, i gues i need to pay a visit to the chemical library then and "gaaack" open a book.
This is going to take time since my beard has grown completely stuck into my keyboard

Hmmm, maybe i can just order the merck online and let it deliver right on my doorstep

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Maya - 20-11-2006 at 08:03

<< I disagree. Not even Beilstein, SciFinder or Gmelin index everything, not even everything in the academic research. For example, they don't index theses where many reactions and compounds are reported in details, yet often only a part of any thesis gets published in journals. Not to mention that they can only index public information since most of the industry research never gets published. The other problem with these search engines is that they simply fail so often. For example, you might check SciFinder (aka Chemical Abstracts) for the synthesis of a certain compound by searching for the structure. You will get a couple of hits. But then you check several publishers' search engines by using the compound name and you might find several other references missed by SciFinder. This happens to me all the time and it is becoming a problem since the academic researchers got so incredibly spoiled by SciFinder and Beilstein that they got to rely solely on these. >>

You see? that's the problem..... Everyone relies on computers and search engines nowadays to do all their
footwork and all too often the computer is to stupid to know exactly what you are really searching for so you don't find it.

True some compounds never got published , but then you can't expect to find any mention of said compound for that very reason. And yet it did exist at some point in time in some lab. If a bear sh^ts in the wood and nobody sees him, did he really take a d*mp?

When I did chem lit searches , it was B4 the age of computer search engines and I would always eventually find my compound in C.A. or elsewhere by putting my nose to the book, err , grindstone.

In this day and age , it seems like I can find just about any compound I'm looking for electronically in the "Combined Chemical Dictionary". That is, If you are lucky enough to have it uploaded to your computer.

I don't know if Merck will have a huge many compounds.....

[Edited on 20-11-2006 by Maya]

Baphomet - 21-11-2006 at 01:30

Maya I think you're right, I've found solubility info for some pretty obscure solute / solvent combos by doing specific searches, both on the net and in literature.
One idea I had was for a kind of solubility database of sorts, which would be hosted on the net. Users could enter solute / solvent combinations and get solubility at various temperatures.
If anyone would find it useful and is interested in collaborating in such a project send me a U2U.

chromium - 21-11-2006 at 05:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Baphomet
One idea I had was for a kind of solubility database of sorts, which would be hosted on the net. Users could enter solute / solvent combinations and get solubility at various temperatures.
If anyone would find it useful and is interested in collaborating in such a project send me a U2U.

It is rather easy to find solubility in water @ 20C for almost any compound and for temperature like 80C, but what if you need to know exact values for solubility of MgBr2 in acetone at various temperatures or want to know with how many CH3OH molecules calcium iodate complexes when crystallised out from methanol at -30C?

More complex solutions - such as for example NaCl+Na2SO4+Na2CO3 in 5% ethanol are also possible. And there are solutions that spearate to two liquid phases in certain temperatures (and concentrations) and whole lot of other sepcial cases.

There are some books specially dedicated to solubilities. These contain hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of pages experimental data. In my opinion it would be very hard work to make searchable database from all these endless tables and even then there would not be everything that one could occassionaly need.

Small database - like common salts of common metals in common solvents (or most common organic compounds in common solvents) could be quite realistic task and still very useful.

[Edited on 21-11-2006 by chromium]

Ozone - 21-11-2006 at 19:55

Hello,

Ah, HofCandP = CRC

.

Oh, and it is "Cambridgesoft".

When in doubt, dry some (insert name here), weigh it carefully, and try to dissolve it. If the solubility parameters are not found in Merck, CRC, or, let me add "Lange's Handbook of Chemistry" or Bielstein, I am sure that your data would be *most* welcome here.

Try not to kill yourself,

O3

[Edited on 22-11-2006 by Ozone]

[Edited on 22-11-2006 by Ozone]

unionised - 23-11-2006 at 12:30

"It is rather easy to find solubility in water @ 20C for almost any compound and for temperature like 80C, but what if you need to know exact values for solubility of MgBr2 in acetone at various temperatures or want to know with how many CH3OH molecules calcium iodate complexes when crystallised out from methanol at -30C? "
In general it is only easy to find the solubillity of, for example, salt in water, because somebody did the experiment.
If you really need to know about MgBr2 in acetone you have to (and this is even more frightening than going to the library and getting a real live book) measure it.
Welcome to the world of experimental science.

Baphomet - 24-11-2006 at 05:21

Quote:

Originally posted by chromium
...
In my opinion it would be very hard work to make searchable database from all these endless tables and even then there would not be everything that one could occassionaly need.
...

Point taken, them's the brakes! Even if it's just one solute and one solvent for each measurement, plus temp, that's 3 dimensions and makes for one hell of a cube.
Probably best to stick to looking them up on an as-needed basis.

Online Solubility DB

Baphomet - 8-12-2006 at 20:51

I just found this online database run by the US government. It looks really cool

http://srdata.nist.gov/solubility/

Brie - 15-12-2006 at 08:50

*cue victory music*

that's awesome, the rest of the NIST databases also seem very worthwhile to explore, and is seems most/all of them are free.