Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Lab Gas Mask under $100 anyone?

Camroc37 - 19-3-2016 at 09:53

Hello,
I have recently decided to get an official chemical resistant gas mask due to a bit of a runaway nitration. It occurred outside, but there was still a lot of HNO3 and NO2 fumes. I don't know much about gas masks, but I don't trust my military surplus gas masks with my life at all. There are many gas masks on amazon, but they are all well over $100. If anyone knows of a cheaper mask, please tell. If you think I am better off saving some money for one of these expensive ones, let me know that as well.

Deathunter88 - 19-3-2016 at 10:09

Look for a *respirator*, not a gas mask.

Camroc37 - 19-3-2016 at 10:13

As I said, I don't know exactly what I'm looking for. This good?
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Paint-Project-Respirator-Medium/dp/...

Dr.Bob - 19-3-2016 at 12:31

That is designed for paint, not as much help for acid, try "acid vapor respirator" and you will find half face ones like this:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Organic-Respirator-Assembly-5303/dp...

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Vapor-Cartridges-Filters-Mediu...

http://www.amazon.com/5500-Organic-Vapor-Cartridges-Large/dp...

or a full face mask that will protect your eyes like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Maintenance-Facepiece-Respirators-resp...

I have used one of the full face ones like that, and they are very good for protecting your eyes and breathing well. I have used them for many nasty tasks.



Camroc37 - 19-3-2016 at 12:52

Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob  
That is designed for paint, not as much help for acid, try "acid vapor respirator" and you will find half face ones like this:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Organic-Respirator-Assembly-5303/dp...

http://www.amazon.com/Organic-Vapor-Cartridges-Filters-Mediu...

http://www.amazon.com/5500-Organic-Vapor-Cartridges-Large/dp...
Thanks a lot, I think I may save up for the full face one. I'm also getting a full body suit and shoulder-high gloves as well. Do I REALLY need the suit? Probably not. But it'll look cool. And as we know, that's what really matters.
No, but really they will be useful. I have 25 pounds of KNO3 just waiting to nitrate everything and anything.

or a full face mask that will protect your eyes like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Maintenance-Facepiece-Respirators-resp...

I have used one of the full face ones like that, and they are very good for protecting your eyes and breathing well. I have used them for many nasty tasks.

Herr Haber - 19-3-2016 at 14:35

It's not the mask that will stop whatever you're breathing. It's the cartridge filter.
You can find cheap ones on e-bay or Amazon. They will be mostly useless.
The filters are designed to stop particles / organic solvents / other gasses like nerve agents depending on what they are composed of (layers).
You can either check the companies that make masks for Professional use and search for what you need.

For what you're doing, I'd use one of the many Swiss Army filters I got. They're old, but they are sealed in hard plastic (so hard that I cant figure how a soldier is supposed to open the plastic casing and put on his mask in case of an alert.) Note that once you open a cartridge is has a life expectancy.
I use simple particle filters (still with activated charcoal Inside though) when grinding something or working with very light powders.
But as for the mask, if you want a decent quality for a fair price, Israelis and UK gas masks are good too.

aga - 19-3-2016 at 15:06

If your life is worth less than $100, then spend less than that.

If not, spend more, including the $ and the Time on research, and the possible gases from your reactions and the capabilities of the gas mask you eventually buy.

When it all goes wrong, preparation is Everything.

Herr Haber - 19-3-2016 at 16:01

The thing is that the mask will probably not cost too much. I mentioned Israelis gas mask earlier, for obvious reasons there are a ton of them on the market so the price is low. I recently acquired a recent Russian (no, not soviet era) gas mask because it was panoramic. I paid a lot. The mask is crap though.

I stress out that what's important it the cartridge you'll screw on the mask !
5 dollars filter = run
15 - 20 is the price you should expect to pay for a military grade filter and these will stop the "broader spectrum" of toxic gasses and particles you'll probably expose yourself too. It'll cost you more if you purchase directly from the manufacturers. I mostly buy mine on eBay.
I know that some countries impose restriction on the purchase of these filters.

One last thing: correctly putting on a gas mask is also something that requires training. Putting your hand in front of the intake to check if air comes in from the sides is not enough. Proper use of the straps is essential and by this I dont mean "pull as hard as you can" but more "make sure that it wont move" once it's attached to your head.
I'm not sure if I'm clear on this part.

Camroc37 - 19-3-2016 at 20:17

Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
It's not the mask that will stop whatever you're breathing. It's the cartridge filter.
You can find cheap ones on e-bay or Amazon. They will be mostly useless.
The filters are designed to stop particles / organic solvents / other gasses like nerve agents depending on what they are composed of (layers).
You can either check the companies that make masks for Professional use and search for what you need.

For what you're doing, I'd use one of the many Swiss Army filters I got. They're old, but they are sealed in hard plastic (so hard that I cant figure how a soldier is supposed to open the plastic casing and put on his mask in case of an alert.) Note that once you open a cartridge is has a lifeexpectancy.

I use simple particle filters (still with activated charcoal Inside though) when grinding something or working with very light powders.
But as for the mask, if you want a decent quality for a fair price, Israelis and UK gas masks are good too.

I have a Finnish and Swedish mask. I have already bought one from amazon as Dr. Bob recommended. I have experience with gas masks (mainly just messing around), and I know how to check the seal etc.

[Edited on 20-3-2016 by Camroc37]

Camroc37 - 19-3-2016 at 20:24

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
If your life is worth less than $100, then spend less than that.

If not, spend more, including the $ and the Time on research, and the possible gases from your reactions and the capabilities of the gas mask you eventually buy.

When it all goes wrong, preparation is Everything.

Ha, knew I would get a "If your life is worth less than said dollar amount" comment. Like I said, I know little (a little more now) about gas masks, but equipment is made to do certain things obviously (and there is a price range for all said equipment). I wouldn't pay $500 for a mask because they just aren't that much. Hopefully you understand what I mean. As of now I don't have that kind of money, so I was hoping others would have knowledge on the subject. It seems they do.

unionised - 20-3-2016 at 02:14

Unless you are going to get the mask checked for face fitting then you are actually increasing your risk by giving yourself a false sense of security.
Proper experimental design should remove most of the risk of needing a mask. Proper containment- a fume hood or some such- will remover what's left.
If things go so badly that you still need one, call the fire service- they know how to use them.

A mask is an admission that you have failed to plan properly.

Dr.Bob - 20-3-2016 at 07:31

I would go somewhere in the middle. If you are outside and way from other people, you are already pretty safe from simple acid fumes. Mostly you should worry about others first, if you start gassing your neighbors, bad things can happen. But if you want a backup for simple acid fumes, they will work fine for minor amounts. None of these masks will protect you from a horrible accident or war gases, but they are great for dusts and small amounts of acids or organics, depending on the cartridge used. But I work in a hood mostly, just use those for cleaning up small accidents in non-hooded areas, and I have done that a few times. Mostly it is great for home use like installing fiber glass insulation, spray painting, and stripping paint.

Camroc37 - 20-3-2016 at 11:40

Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Bob  
I would go somewhere in the middle. If you are outside and way from other people, you are already pretty safe from simple acid fumes. Mostly you should worry about others first, if you start gassing your neighbors, bad things can happen. But if you want a backup for simple acid fumes, they will work fine for minor amounts. None of these masks will protect you from a horrible accident or war gases, but they are great for dusts and small amounts of acids or organics, depending on the cartridge used. But I work in a hood mostly, just use those for cleaning up small accidents in non-hooded areas, and I have done that a few times. Mostly it is great for home use like installing fiber glass insulation, spray painting, and stripping paint.

Great. I don't plan on standing in a cloud of fumes, but it is nice to have a mask on in case of an accident. The very reason I bought one in the first place was due to an accident in which I had to dump a mix into an ice bath. I had to hold my breath to even get close to it. I plan on making a fumehood this summer. The biggest problem for me is lack of space; my yard is small and the basement just wouldn't work out.

aga - 20-3-2016 at 15:24

Be more imaginative.

My tiny fume hood has worked great for 2 years.

It's built into a corner of a metal hut that measures 3m x 2m.

The Chemistry area, with fume hood, occupies a Corner of that, not All of it.

It occupies about the same space that a 1.5m wide bookshelf does, yet contains a fume hood and storage space for quite a lot of glassware and a large number of reagent bottles.

Whining about 'not enough space' is just lack of imagination with the space you already have (unless it's EM)

I'll do a video for the 'tour my lab' thread so you can see.

Herr Haber - 20-3-2016 at 21:53

Quote: Originally posted by Camroc37  

Great. I don't plan on standing in a cloud of fumes, but it is nice to have a mask on in case of an accident.


Great idea ! There's more than your lungs that you'll want to protect :)
Hair and skin will not like NOx fumes. At least that's what I guessed when looking at the aluminium conduits to go to my window (improvised fume Hood with a 385 cubic meters / hour extractor fan). I once used a normal fan with plastic casing during a TNP synthesis. Let's just say it's color had changed by the end.
I wouldnt want to contradict Dr Bob, but some days ago, I was making some Chloropicrin and I suddenly realized I hadnt pulled the jaw straps tight enough. Once done, no more problems !
But if you're going to play with other gasses my guess is that Hood or not, gas mask or not, you wont be experimenting for much longer. So dont ! :)

aga - 21-3-2016 at 09:24

I guess Dr.Bob an Herr Haber have hit the nail right on the head there :

If you don't feel confident with gas production, don't do it.

The route to confidence is research and small-scale experimentation - it shows you what might happen at the large scale without the vast clouds of toxic gas to deal with.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=24683&...

100PercentChemistry - 25-3-2016 at 09:16

The respirators are somewhat useful. There are many available for 40-50 dollars. However, they are fragile. It isn't the respirator that is the most expensive. It's the cartridges. They add up.