Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Enforcing basic rules.

Enforcing basic rules.

Ramiel - 4-9-2006 at 09:39

Recently, a few threads and specific posts in whimsy (and possibly elsewhere) have prompted a harder line to be taken with those people who refuse to respect the rules of this forum. Most members here (and all of the offending parties) are knowledgeable posters and valuable members of this science forum, but recently, defending passionate beliefs has lead to a couple of blatant breaches of rules. I think it's pretty basic to say that excessive swearing, name calling, bullying or degrading personal attacks are never necessary or deserved. Posts or topics will not be deleted, discussions are not banned or censored! but unacceptable parts of the posts are going to be snipped in future.

Remember, you're professional amateur chemists... make it a privilege for others to post here too.

Thanks,
- Ramiel

Sauron - 13-1-2007 at 07:48

A member just replied to one of my posts in the Sildenafil thread with the single line:

"Who is this fucking moron?"

I do not believe that is acceptable forum behavior, and I believe it is precisely the sort of blatant breach of the rules you are talking about.

The poster was (edited by Sauron).

[Edited on 14-1-2007 by Sauron]

chromium - 13-1-2007 at 09:21

I was quite disapointed when i saw the effect of political threads in whimsy forum that mostly criticised USA politics - not at all related to chemistry. As a result we lost at least one valuable member.

I am very critical on USA politics myself but chemistry forum is not place to discus such things. It lowers quality of this forum and it is absolutely useless.

It might be of some use when you go to talk with president or congresmen but its no good if it just makes talanted chemists to quarrel with each other instead of writing valuable posts about science.

To be honest i do not understand why we need Whimsy forum at all.

[Edited on 13-1-2007 by chromium]

BromicAcid - 13-1-2007 at 09:39

Chromium, I usually don't use the whimsy form myself, the exception being for chemistry related whimsy (Posts about Mad Scientists, Chemistry Stories, Hide and Seek of Chemicals in the lab and such) however without it the conversational topics are still somewhat inevitable and people will try to talk about these topics in other forums I think. Whimsy helps segregate these topics and besides a number of our members heavily enjoy whimsy, go sort the member list by post count and look at some of our top posters to see what forums they are most active in for instance.

Anyway, Sauron, you're just coming off as a tattle-tale. This post is apparently an attempt to address these matters without pointing fingers, take the high road on this one.

Sauron - 13-1-2007 at 10:04

The guy broke the very basic rule that the forum staffer who started this thread referred to. I reported the infraction, his remark was deleted. The system worked.

Tattle tale, I hardly think so. Should I have sunk to his level and engaged in a pissing contest with him? No.

I posted here after reporting the matter using the NOTIFY button, which is what it is for nicht wahr?

And what else is this thread for?

It was only afterwards that the matter was dealt with. I regard the matter as closed. The gentleman and I have swapped perfectly courteous posts since then, no hard feelings on my part.

But I see no need to go edit posts here and pretend it never happened. It happened. Let's move on.

chromium - 13-1-2007 at 10:16

BromicAcid, i understand that whimsy probably helps to keep science forums clear of useless stuff but in my opinion the fact that some members want it much is not good reason for its existence. If moderators thought it acceptable we could make forum about cooking recipies or movies or even about pornography - and its quite probable that it gets popular among some members (including me, maybe).

It seems to me that those members who have many posts in whimsy are exactly those who write quite a lot of valuable posts BUT they also happen to insult others more often than those who ignore whimsy. Some usefull threads are also derailed by them and "basic rules" are usally not enforced if poster has made lot of valuable posts beforehand.

In fact i do not know how these problems could be solved. Moderators are not Gods, they have lot of important work that gets done and this forum runs quite well. I am not quite sure if without whimsy things would be better.

Still i think it makes sense to write my thoughts about it.

[Edited on 13-1-2007 by chromium]

Nicodem - 13-1-2007 at 10:24

Sauron, you have made 312 posts in a single month since you registered. Do you have any idea of how many personal insults an average member on this board suffers in reply to any of his first 312 posts? Obviously not! Well, it is a lot of insults. But I don't remember anybody so keen in pointing fingers publicly as much as you do. I find it perfectly reasonable if you get 1 insult per 312 posts and I'm surprised it was only that much given the several annoying posts you have made (which is also perfectly OK, since the majority of you posts are informative). But then you also opened a thread where you wished to discuss issues related to some personal communication you had with certain member(s), which is a bit strange and unpleasant to read to say the least. You are making this attitude a habit and I don't like such habits.

PS: Check again. The insult was edited and removed by Sandmeyer himself, not by any moderator as you seem to believe.

Sauron - 13-1-2007 at 10:44

Was it or was it not a "blatant violation of basic forum rules" per the first post in this thread?

It was uncalled for.

I have never insulted Sandmeyer. I have never PMd him nor has he PMd me.

I really can't help what you find annoying, that is up to you. As long as no violation of forum rules was involved, I really don't see what point there is in discussing it here.

Nor does it matter to me if () removed the insult himself, or if a moderator did it. What possible difference should that make to me?

I've moved on and so has he.

There's an end to it as far as I am concerned. I do not understand your concern. BTW what difference does it make how many posts I have made in a month? Is trhere a rule or restriction or quota? The point ought to be whether or not my posts have mainly been constructive, on topic and of interest to at least somebody else. I've been nusily uploading com-chem software to the MadHatter site. At the moment that seems like it is mostly a dialogue with Polverone, but there are indications others are interested in this stuff as well. I've been into it about 10 years on and off.

As to the other ... End of story.

[Edited on 14-1-2007 by Sauron]

vulture - 13-1-2007 at 12:34

Quote:

End of story.

I certainly hope so, now that this matter has already spilled into another thread, which aim was in fact to avoid this sort of stuff!

I am not handing out anymore babyshampoo.

Nicodem - 13-1-2007 at 15:30

Sauron, I already said that your posting mania is no problem to me as many posts contain some useful information. Sandmeyer's reply obviously was unethical and in violation of the forum rules, but as far as I could follow it was more like an impulsive deed that he later repudiated and apologized. Perhaps even he himself does not know what exactly was it in your post that he disliked so much. This happens all the time in forums like this. I know that feeling as I often get an impulse to say directly that something is complete bullshit or something offensive like that but I rarely do it simply because later I would regret it. You can never know exactly what personal trouble makes somebody write what he writes. It could be just honest ignorance, trolling attitude or plain intentional misinformation. On issues outside the real of science I don't really care what is said and written.
What I find annoying in your posting is that you find such normal things that happen all the time in any community, real or internet based, so exceptional as to write complains about it in Forum Matters even though it happened to you once in over 300 posts. It happened to me several more times in relation to my posting number (though I might have been more arrogant and deserved it more, but nevertheless…). It is exactly such attitude that culminates in threads like "What Complete BS is this?" It costs me nothing but the 1 minute for checking the thread and finding it unnecessary and a waste of time, but please rather deal with personal issues on personal level. Vulture depicted the problem perfectly with his babyshampoo analogy.

Sauron - 13-1-2007 at 23:01

Nicodem, I have removed all references in my posts to the identity of the member. Now the only person naming him is you, in two posts. You may want to scrub those out of a similar concern for his privacy. I am told that there is an "unspoken forum law" about this, of which I of course being new around here was blissfully ignorant till initiated.

chemoleo - 13-1-2007 at 23:13

Oh Christ, relax, will ya? Noone really cares!

This isn't a grand supreme court hearing. Neither is this forum heavily regimented.
Ever heard of U2U to discuss personal matters, instead of endlessly going on about it in threads? Another unspoken forum rule. Particularly if it is about petty matters such as the above.

Please no more posts here unless there is a *real* emergency.

Now back to regular business!

FANTOMAS - 24-1-2007 at 14:32

Not "a real emergency",but i wish to ask if the forum is STRICTLY for chemistry ,or is there space for other
"scientific" talks?

[Edited on 24-1-2007 by FANTOMAS]

Nicodem - 2-2-2007 at 12:42

I was wandering if there is any particular reason why Gil is allowed to continuously reregister and continue with its trolling? It seems like he nearly took over the board with his madness.

Polverone - 2-2-2007 at 13:14

There's no way of disallowing it. He is using multiple computers or proxies, so IP banning doesn't work. He has the patience to keep re-registering every time we delete one of his accounts.

Sauron - 2-2-2007 at 13:43

Then I guess the best thing to do is ignore his posts/threads, never respond to them, and let the moderators dump them into Detritus where they belong.

quicksilver - 11-2-2007 at 06:52

Quote:

Originally posted by Nicodem
I was wandering if there is any particular reason why Gil is allowed to continuously reregister and continue with its trolling? It seems like he nearly took over the board with his madness.

Out of curiousity, what were some of the various names? I think that person used only two.

Ozone - 11-2-2007 at 12:45

Only 2? Whoo, no! Let's see, I've been scribing suspects as they appear:

1. gil
2. jeanbergian
3. adushadu
4. etabeta
5. prica
6. turkilmazz
7. paperoga
8. prandincubakiloduccluge (or somesuch)
9. irishallah
10. alfonsho
11. la dresdernornas
12. banned
13. guido_Laurespa
14. TheClash
15. 29Settembre

And who knows what else. My apologies in advance for anyone named here who is legitimate. All of these were as Sauron described with, "nocopro impotent...", etc. It was actually sort of funny at first.

Best,

O3

I suppose I'll update this as we go on.

[Edited on 11-2-2007 by Ozone]

Fleaker - 11-2-2007 at 15:47

What a waste of his and our time to do such nonsense.

Fleaker - 11-2-2007 at 17:56

I love how he registered 5+ accounts today.

Definitely right Sauron, just adding fuel to the fire by us discussing it.

[Edited on 12-2-2007 by Fleaker]

Sauron - 11-2-2007 at 22:05

The more we talk abut the troll the longer he will assault the forum. I suggest we STOP talking about him here and now. The only appropriate response to the appearance of one of his posts any time under any identity he creates is REPORT and let the Moderators do their job and trash his bullshit.

He wants attention. Deny it to him.

My guess is he's a lush who binges on weekends. That's when it seems he strikes.

Don't engage and don't natter on about him in this thread or anywhere else, or you will just perpetuate his presence. IGNORE him, and REPORT him.

And those are my final public remarks on the subject, come what may.

8-click recovery transformation for poo flingers

Rosco Bodine - 5-5-2007 at 15:56

In the forum FAQ's , Polverone wrote concerning forum behavior "Please resist the urge to devolve into a feces-hurling Internet Monkey ..."

For any of us who may need to re-evolve ,
the following visual aid may be useful .

After clicking on the link below , a move of the cursor near to
the flashing "Z" which first appears center page will be observed to initialize self-aquiring karma alignment with cyberspace , and following that acquisition of karma lock ,
simply click 7 more times in place to complete the recovery process .

http://www.zoltron.com/ssi/flash/banner-home.swf

Some users report fewer repeat treatments are needed , if
while the 7 clicks to recovery are being made , an incantation is said aloud , that famous Schwarzenegger Terminator 3 quote " Talk to the hand " .

( File attached )

The re-evolutionary transformation should leave the former cursor restored to an upright straight arrow , although tilted decidedly a little to the left , but hey .....nothing's perfect

An untested , but different possibly effective incantation is that Judy Garland quote from The Wizard of Oz . While clicking in place , say quietly and reverently ....
"There's no place like home " .

[Edited on 5-5-2007 by Rosco Bodine]

Attachment: hand.wav (5kB)
This file has been downloaded 794 times

Organikum - 5-5-2007 at 18:11

Wow Rosco, I will never understand how your political views match with the fact that you are obviously pretty stoned.

Thats not negative. I like you stoned better!

love & peace
/ORG

Sauron - 5-5-2007 at 22:58

Balderdash.

Perhaps @Rosco has been imbibing of demon rum

But he doesn't sdtrike me as the stoner type.

On the other hand neither did Rush Limbaugh, but I don't want to compare our #Rosco to a carboard caricature conservative radio personality like el Rusho.

Rosco Bodine - 15-6-2007 at 13:48

Ha! Not anymore ...However .... In the late nineteen sixties and through much of the seventies .....old Rosco spent a bit of time in the greatly and *permanetly*
altered states of america

In fact it was somewhere around that time , that time itself sort of became an irrelevant abstract , conceptually speaking of course .

BTW , I couldn't recommend this sort of experimentation
which would leave many never quite the same ....
as if you aren't happy with the result , it would be inconvenient that it is quite irreversible .

You might get the picture on about track 5 at the following link

http://music.downroll.com/player/?artist=The+Moody+Blues&...

There's a better look at the album cover art here

http://www.webwriter.f2s.com/moody/lyrics/albumart.htm#isotl...

And an early video for Legend of a Mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_TbovyVOzs

P.S. These old veteran cosmic rockers are still touring ,
and giving live performance concerts *forty* years later
to sellout crowds

Here's what they look like now .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y46jE6nL-y0&mode=related&...

[Edited on 15-6-2007 by Rosco Bodine]

quicksilver - 17-6-2007 at 06:57

I was there as well.....and there. What a ride! Frankly, I'm glad it's all in the past. I was one of those young people who chronically looked like a blue-eyed Jesus.
Moody Blues, Jefferson Airplane, Janis Joplin, Hendrix, Cream....patcholi oil, incense, all sorts of shit tacked to the ceiling, black-lights, candles, day glow colors and body painting ....it's all coming back in a rush whenever I see an old album cover. (Sniff, sniffle...I miss my hair!)

tito-o-mac - 20-7-2007 at 06:06

There's also been an Islam political/religious arguement recently. I do believe that such comments should only be said personally or not be said at all.

Remember, it's better to always take an action instead of writing a comment!

Rosco Bodine - 20-7-2007 at 07:07

It wasn't an argument at all . It was a statement of
fact by me which some people would prefer go unsaid ,
as a PC taboo against any freespeech which no matter how true ......might be offensive and lead to arguments
with people who just can't stand the truth and who just want to argue for arguments sake .

You live in Singapore where there are laws against free speech which might instigate disharmony in what the
social architects want to keep an agreeable population
who dare not step out of line .....including freely speaking their mind in ways that are unapproved .

And you probably think it is better to be a little neighborhood narc and hit the "report" button to
have the local enforcers of "right speak and right think"
than to dare to engage in open freespeak or freethink
directly with some free spirit whose freedom you regard as misbehavior ....deserving of being gagged for
"misbehavior" .

And for those who share that view , how about bringing something useful to this thinktank forum for
The Art and Science of *Amateur* Experimentalism
with proofs involving your resourcefulness in technical
matters that are in any respect applicable to the realm
of a home laboratory , or in support of that work as
pertinent contribution .....proving your worth in that regard , instead of wearing out the report button
to have some free spirit gagged .

We used to be able to speak freely here and few threads were ever locked . Then came the enforced PC we have now , and with it came all of the *advanced industrial laboratory related knowledge* that is 99% totally irrelevant and useless to the *amateur* ......so where is the huge contribution , where is the payoff for the
censorship ? Where is all the new influx of creative contribution which was ostensibly absent in that freer environment which existed before ? It isn't there because
the premise that enforced PC and its volunteer narcs ,
is anything that fosters creativity and contribution is false .

Free thinkers function best when they aren't placed in a box , and then expected to make contributions which
necessarily require thinking that is outside the box .
The shifting of gears all the time between the rules for
thinking and for speaking is tiresome and stifling and
it is the antithesis of creativity in science or in art .

This forum has been a crucible where the experiment has been done already and proved out ....yet it continues .
And the why is because of people who have your view
that it is better to "correct" and silence others as your
first order of business , and in preface for your contemplated contribution of marvellous value which
never existed and never comes . You are the same ilk
as those book burners , and regulators of everything
which would make the whole world a "proper" place as you define .

Now prove me wrong that those whom you can't "handle"
in U2U , you will then move it up to the next level with
the report button here ....preferring yet another example of censorship ....to the free expression of views by those
whom you can never defeat in honest and open debate .

Bromide - 20-7-2007 at 07:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Rosco Bodine
...
(in regard to tito-o-matic
You live in Singapore where there are laws against free speech which might instigate disharmony in what the
social architects want to keep an agreeable population
who dare not step out of line .....including freely speaking their mind in ways that are unapproved .

And you probably think it is better to be a little neighborhood narc and hit the "report" button to
have the local enforcers of "right speak and right think"
than to dare to engage in open freespeak or freethink
directly with some free spirit whose freedom you regard as misbehavior ....deserving of being gagged for
"misbehavior" ...

In fairness to tito-o-matic, while I think he is a bit naive on occasion, to my awareness he has never indicated he would engage in the sort of thought-crime repression you're talking about here. He's green (a teenager in high school, if i remember correctly) and some of his sillier comments just reflect the propaganda that has been fed to him during his upbringing--exactly like all the rest of us--but none of his posts show him to be a malicious person.

But he seems a bright enough kid, and it is not unreasonable to hope that his experiences here (including the occasional smack-down) will help him eventually to free himself from some of the dogmatic thinking that our societies promote heavily to young people.

For that matter, while I may have some criticisms for the policies of the government of Singapore, none of us should suffer any superiority complexes regarding our own governments. Western democratic republics sure talk a good game, and for much of my life I, too, believed the hype... But the past few years observing the operation of the federal and two state governments in action "on the ground" has cleared me of the delusion that fascism is dead in the USA.

Rosco Bodine - 20-7-2007 at 09:15

Believe me ....I have no illusions about secular republics being any haven for freedoms of any kind in an absolutely libertarian sense ....they stink too

But in a relative sense , in comparison with some of the more regimented societies ( we shall not mention any specifically , as everyone knows who they are

) ....
relatively speaking there *is* greater freedom in the
secular societies which are also republics .

A big problem in the US now is the government seems to have gotten deaf to the people for whom they work ,
so the government isn't really reflecting the views and wishes of the people at large . I think the percentage of people presently approving of the US adminsitration is at a record low "approval rating" of maybe 12-15% .

In time however that will change with new administration being elected ...whereas some societies stay stuck with whatever they have for decade after decade . At least in the US we can boot the scoundrels out .

BTW , If I were to go to Singapore and speak my mind freely ,
they would probably cane me publicly and then deport me

[Edited on 20-7-2007 by Rosco Bodine]

Nerro - 20-7-2007 at 09:46

Quote:

At least in the US we can boot the scoundrels out .

I won't go into this here

Quote:

BTW , If I were to go to Singapore and speak my mind freely ,
they would probably cane me publicly and then deport me

I would pay to see that

I beg the admins to allow bitchfighting in whimsy again. Punish it hard outside of whimsy but please allow it in whimsy! It used to be so much watching conversations getting out of hand and now it's sort of quiet...