Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Lithium chlorate LiClO3

Lithium chlorate LiClO3

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-2-2016 at 01:09

Has somebody know how about LiClO3? His produce seems be pretty easy. Metal Lithium is easy get from old battery. On YT is many videos about it. Get Potassium and sodium is difficult. But Lithium is everywhere. Water and Li = LiOH solution in water. H2O + LiOH+Cl2 = LiClO3 + 5 LiCl + 3 H2O. LiCl has 3,5x less solubility in water than LiClO3. His solubility in water is huge, 777g in 100g H20 at 60 C. Even 250g at 0 Celsia. Solubility LiCl in 0 celsia is only 70g. This properties his predispose for contruction water gel or water plastic energetic materials. With suitable fuel. Principle should be similarly as NaClO4 + diethylene glycole + water. And It is very powerful water plastic EM. Prepare Cl is easy from HCl + KMnO4 (school methode on YT). Information about LiClO3 + fuel is very small, less, nothing. Prepare LiClO3 seems, maybe easily, than Na ClO3 from bleach.
Types of reactions:
• KClO3 + LiOH = KOH + LiClO3
• 6 LiOH + 3 Cl2 = 5 LiCl + LiClO3 + 3 H2O
• LiOH + HClO3 = H2O + LiClO3
• LiClO3 + K = Li + KClO3
Thanks for answers. ...LL... :cool:

[Edited on 13-2-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

[Edited on 13-2-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

Bert - 13-2-2016 at 06:54

Economy is not good, Lithium salts are a lot more expensive than Sodium around here, pure Lithium metal is far too expensive sourced from finished primary cells for anything beyond a small (explosive related) experiment (or certain high profit organic chemistry processes, discussion of which belongs elsewhere).

Lithium polymer rechargeable batteries do use Li perchlorate, again these would be very expensive as an over the counter chemical source.

Never seen LiClO3 or LiClO4 used in production of industrial or improvised EM, probably for such reasons. Agree the solubility data looks interesting.

A more widely available and cheaper bulk Li source could be LiCO3, used in ceramics and glass production, or Lithium stearate, used in lubricants.

[Edited on 13-2-2016 by Bert]

Laboratory of Liptakov - 13-2-2016 at 07:56

If arises from Li hydroxide 5 parts LiCl and 1 part LiClO3, is produce really expensive. Even perhaps you have very cheap Li cell. Or free. Maybe some get 5 Kg of cells free. After is possible do it experiments. You have right. Thanks....LL... :cool:

Bert - 13-2-2016 at 08:38

A quick look shows methanol dissolves a good bit of LiClO4-

If I needed the perchlorate, LiCO3 and perchloric aid seems the likely route.

[Edited on 16-2-2016 by Bert]

phlogiston - 13-2-2016 at 11:53

Lithium perchlorate contains more oxygen per volume than liquid oxygen itself!
Perhaps a good way to store oxygen for long periods of time.

Bert - 13-2-2016 at 13:32

I recall some threads here regarding rocket fuels and LiClO4- Probably posted by DubaiAmateurRocketry?

Ah, here it is!

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25536

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-2-2016 at 01:27

Thanks for link, I read all. Producing any EM on based LiClO3 or LiClO4 is so disadvantage, that all others EM are better. Even in NASA used and prefer NH4ClO4. Only in cause, that Santa Claus should bring 2 Kg pure LiClO4 under tree. It is last possibility, how tested Lithium chlorate or perchlorate.
Santa.... :cool:

....

PHILOU Zrealone - 14-2-2016 at 03:57

By chance, I'm the owner of 100kg LiOH, two 50kg drums from a bank-routed chemical grocery company --> kind of "garage sale" at 1€/kg...that was a very good deal 100 €/100 kg

.
It is one of my valuable war treasure...aside with AgCN (1kg/1€) and about 1000 kg (or L) of valuable chemical grade reagents and solvants, glassware, ...

j_sum1 - 14-2-2016 at 04:07

Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone

By chance, I'm the owner of 100kg LiOH, two 50kg drums from a bank-routed chemical grocery company --> kind of "garage sale" at 1€/kg...that was a very good deal 100 €/100 kg

.
It is one of my valuable war treasure...aside with AgCN (1kg/1€) and about 1000 kg (or L) of valuable chemical grade reagents and solvants, glassware, ...

Score!!

I am waiting for my lucky day.
(My best is finding some old coins with high silver content on the side of the road.)

PHILOU Zrealone - 14-2-2016 at 05:10

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

H2O + LiOH+Cl2 = LiClO3 + 5 LiCl + 3 H2O
Types of reactions:
• KClO3 + LiOH = KOH + LiClO3
• 6 LiOH + 3 Cl2 = 5 LiCl + LiClO3 + 3 H2O
• LiOH + HClO3 = H2O + LiClO3
• LiClO3 + K = Li + KClO3

•KClO3 + LiOH = KOH + LiClO3
Maybe, depends on solubility of LiOH vs LiClO3 and of KClO3 vs KOH, I think the favored side of reaction is the left because both left compounds are least soluble...

•6 LiOH + 3 Cl2 = 5 LiCl + LiClO3 + 3 H2O
If you had AgClO3; then you could simply add it to LiCl or to your batch to get precipitated AgCl and all LiCl converted to LiClO3...

• LiOH + HClO3 = H2O + LiClO3
HClO3 is interesting but even better is its conversion with +/-50% yield into HClO4 by disproportionation heating of the 35% solution upon boiling....avoid using over 35% as starting material because (explosive ClO2 goes out of solution above 40% cold HClO3).
4 HClO3 --> 3 HClO4 + HCl
HClO3 + HCl --> Cl2 + H2O + O2
--------------------------------------
5 HClO3 --> 3 HClO4 + Cl2 + H2O + O2
Then
LiOH + HClO4 --> LiClO4 + H2O

• LiClO3 + K = Li + KClO3
Nope! You of course know what happens when mixing eletropositive metals like Mg or Al with chlorate salts...flash powder....
What would you think will happen with super electropositive metal like potassium and a super oxydiser like a chlorate?
--> Big deflagration or detonation ... maybe even contact explosive!
--> LiClO3 + 2 K --> LiCl + K2O + O2

Side notes:
Weird reaction

LiCl somehow also hydrolyses back to base and acid...
LiCl + H2O <----> LiOH + HCl

Apparently conversion of LiClO3 to LiClO4 must be possible and easy via electrolysis...so all way down from LiCl to LiClO4 easier than for NaCl or KCl?

[Edited on 15-2-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]

Bert - 14-2-2016 at 08:43

After returning to the several composite rocket propellant threads...

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=25319

and having more time now to read the patents linked, such as:

http://www.google.com.br/patents/US3094444?hl=pt-BR

Many kilos of cheap Li compounds to play with are indeed enviable.

[Edited on 14-2-2016 by Bert]

Believe

Laboratory of Liptakov - 14-2-2016 at 10:35

Well, thanks for everybody. Almost all the life I would think, that Santa Claus no exist. However, Important caution, ladies and gentlemans: Penguins from Antarctica believe. Madagascar and all his inhabitants believe. Kowalski believe. Coca Cola believe. And maybe even Putin early believe, that really Santa Claus is

PHILOU Zrealone. And I personally? In Frame of energetic materials? Of course. I believe .. ... :cool:

[Edited on 14-2-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

markx - 14-2-2016 at 23:26

One could also start from lithium carbonate....turn that into chloride and advance from there with the help of electrosynthesis. Lithium carbonate is quite videly available from industrial chemical suppliers. We use it as a a setting accelerator in aluminate cement based mortars. The current price tag hovers around 7€/kg....not too bad for a courious experiment, but in the long run it definately is an expensive solution.

PHILOU Zrealone - 15-2-2016 at 03:50

Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov

Well, thanks for everybody. Almost all the life I would think, that Santa Claus no exist. However, Important caution, ladies and gentlemans: Penguins from Antarctica believe. Madagascar and all his inhabitants believe. Kowalski believe. Coca Cola believe. And maybe even Putin early believe, that really Santa Claus is

PHILOU Zrealone. And I personally? In Frame of energetic materials? Of course. I believe .. ... :cool:

[Edited on 14-2-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]

I'm a true believer and in Belgium he comes twice a year under close related names ... on 6th december as Santa-Nicolaus (Santa-Nicklaus, Saint-Nicolas, Sint-Niklaas, Sinterklaas, Saint-Nicholas) and on 24th december as Santa Claus (Père Noel, Kerstvader, Father Christmas, Weihnachtsmann).