Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Source of denatured Ethanol

XeonTheMGPony - 12-1-2016 at 18:32

Here in my home town most stores that sell materials for fire places will carry a fuel for an Alcohol based stove called Bio-flame, it is a Ethanol/Isopropyl Alcohol blend

http://www.thebioflame.com/ < Click on fuel.

I thought this may come in handy for some!

Found the msds and it is 95% Ethanol and 5% 2-Proponale

Seems like they are world wide for supplies.

[Edited on 13-1-2016 by XeonTheMGPony]

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j_sum1 - 12-1-2016 at 18:36

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=64...

previous thread on topic.

[edit]
Here is the Aussie version of the product:
http://www.recochem.com.au/index.php/products/consumer_produ...

Both this and the Canadian version upthread are made by Recochem. One assumes that they are the same or almost the same product.
Where did you see that the Canadian version contains isopropyl alcohol? I have not been able to ascertain what the other 1% is in the aussie version.

[Edited on 13-1-2016 by j_sum1]

Separation of ethanol from isopropanol by extractive distillation

Detonationology - 13-1-2016 at 15:44

Patent# US 5445716 A

ABSTRACT
Ethanol is difficult to separate from isopropanol by conventional distillation or rectification because of the proximity of their boiling points. Ethanol can be readily separated from isopropanol by extractive distillation. Effective agents are dipentene, anisole and ethyl benzene.

A closer look reveals that the common name for dipentene is limonene

But the list of effective agents for this process is pretty broad and includes:

alpha-pinene, beta-pinene, limonene, alpha-phellandrene, alpha-terpinene, myrcene, carane, p-mentha-1,5-diene, butyl ether, 1-methoxy-2-propanol, n-butyl acetate, n-amyl acetate, benzyl acetate, ethylene glycol ethyl ether acetate, methyl acetoacetate, ethylene glycol diacetate, 2-butoxyethyl acetate, methyl butyrate, ethyl propionate, ethyl n-valerate, butyl benzoate, ethyl benzoate, pyridine, N,N-dimethyl aniline, o-sec.butyl phenol, 3-isopropyl phenol, 2,6-dimethyl phenol, o-tert.butyl phenol, 4-ethyl phenol, diethyl phthalate, diisooctyl phthalate, dimethyl adipate, glycerine triacetate, diethyl malonate, dimethyl glutarate, tetrahydro furan, ethylene glycol phenyl ether, dipropylene glycol methyl ether acetate, diethylene glycol hexyl ether, propoxypropanol, butoxypropanol, p-xylene glycol dimethyl ether, diethylene glycol t-butyl ether methyl ether, triethylene glycol diacetate, anisole, phenetole, phenyl ether, 1,2-methylenedioxybenzene, isophorone, ethyl-3-ethoxypropionate, tetraethylorthosilicate, 2-hydroxyacetophenone, 1,1,1-trichloroethane, tetrachloroethylene, 2,2,2-trichloroethanol, m-dichlorebenzene, chlorobenzene, 2,6-dichlorotoluene and 1-chlorohexane.

Dr.Bob - 14-1-2016 at 09:58

The problem is that now you have to separate ethanol from limonene, which may not be trivial. If you are going to the trouble of setting up a distillation, it seems much simpler to just make and distill ethanol from sugar and yeast. Or just buy a specially denatured ethanol that is compatible with your needs, they have dozens of them.

Praxichys - 15-1-2016 at 06:21

I find SDA-40b particularly interesting. It is often used in perfumery, and is available in 4-gallon lots from places where DIY perfume supplies are sold.

It's 99.88% ethanol, 0.12% t-Butanol, and 0.0006% denatonium benzoate, which can be removed by distillation. A group buy might do well.

http://www.saveonscents.com/product_info.php/products_id/202...

hissingnoise - 15-1-2016 at 06:34

Quote:
It's 99.88% ethanol, 0.12% t-Butanol, and 0.0006% denatonium benzoate, which can be removed by distillation.

No actually, the bitrex, as it is called, is not removed by simple distillation . . .


Praxichys - 15-1-2016 at 07:13

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  

No actually, the bitrex, as it is called, is not removed by simple distillation . . .
Why not? The only places I can find accounts to the contrary are people who are trying to make denatured alcohol drinkable. The problem is that humans can detect the stuff by taste as low as 0.05ppm.

If it starts at 6ppm and you remove 99% of it, you'll still be able to taste it easily! Naturally, just about everything will co-distill to some degree. Even 6ppm wouldn't hurt the majority of reactions using ethanol, but a quick distillation would certainly remove the vast majority of it.

Think about it... its melting point is something like 165°C, compared to 78°C boiling ethanol. The separation should be pretty efficient, unless I'm totally missing something fundamental here...

hissingnoise - 15-1-2016 at 10:52

Quote:
The only places I can find accounts to the contrary are people who are trying to make denatured alcohol drinkable

If it were possible, there'd be a long-standing, clandestine industry around it producing cheap, potable ethanol, I'd imagine!


hissingnoise - 15-1-2016 at 12:22

(Ooops!) I eat my words!

Went snooping and found this and this!



[Edited on 16-1-2016 by hissingnoise]

XeonTheMGPony - 15-1-2016 at 12:33

usual I just make it when needed in a fast n dirty method, it is low efficiency production wise, 5L sugar water with bread yeast tossed in, once the air lock stops bubbling I distill it under precise temp control.

But it is energy and labor intensive, but you end up with fairly pure clean alcohol that can be used for cooking and medicine as well as a reagent

Eventually I desire to make fulminated mercury and this ideally will do the job for much less hassle! But some point I need to fabricate a proper reflux still for my self.

hissingnoise - 15-1-2016 at 12:41

Quote:
I desire to make fulminated mercury and this ideally will do the job for much less hassle!

I can tell you that the bitrex in biofires ethanol seems not to interfere in MF synthesis, in any way.