Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Obtaining chemicals

Copper - 10-11-2015 at 03:07

Hello,
Do you know of any online place that sells chemicals at a reasonable price ( example is CuSO4 - 500g = $10 or lower), and where to get labware? And shipping to Australia?
Thanks

Copper - 10-11-2015 at 03:08

Another example includes methanol.

j_sum1 - 10-11-2015 at 03:32

So much depends on exactly what you want to do.
Methanol is available from hobby supplies places as a model aeroplane fuel. It is usually mixed with nitrous oxide, but if you ask you can usually get t pure. Some enthusiasts like to mix up their own fuel. It is also available from places that supply fuel for car racing. Go where the rev heads go.

I recommend you search on these boards for the exact chemicals and equipment you need. The question has been asked numerous times before. If there is something you can't find then come back with a specific question.

SteampunkScientist - 10-11-2015 at 11:33

CuSO4 is still sold in some of the older/rural hardware stores as "algae killer" for farmers ponds and such. You can usually get five pounds for a few bucks. Potassium Nitrate is "Stump Killer" at most hardware stores, and Sublimated Sulfur is still available a many pharmacies.

zed - 10-11-2015 at 15:10

Oz can be very unfriendly, to chemical curiosity.

That being said, you can generally find somebody on e-bay, that would be happy to sell you a nuclear warhead, if they had one, and they thought they could get away with shipping it.

You are also close to China, but I have no idea what Oz allows.

Me, I'm in the U.S.. Here, we can generally figure out how to acquire most common chemicals, and likewise.....lab equipment.

This however, varies from State to State. I've heard tales of young science enthusiasts, being arrested in Texas, just for buying glassware.

Cou - 10-11-2015 at 15:21

Quote: Originally posted by zed  
This however, varies from State to State. I've heard tales of young science enthusiasts, being arrested in Texas, just for buying glassware.


AFAIK, the Texas glassware law only applies if you are buying glassware from inside texas. Ordering from an amateur chemistry supplier outside of texas and shipping to you is fine.

What exactly did they get charged for, or convicted of? A quick google search makes it seem that the law is never actually used in court or enforced, not even against drug cooks.

The Volatile Chemist - 10-11-2015 at 15:36

Probably because they didn't need to use it to convict drug-makers. And it's not like they're trying to fill 'juvy' with innocent experimenters.

Cou - 10-11-2015 at 15:46

If you live close to a state border, you can definitely have the glassware shipped to an address at another state, then bring the glassware back home in your car. But I'm still not sure about shipping to texas by mail.
Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
And it's not like they're trying to fill 'juvy' with innocent experimenters.

Heh, this comment strikes me as funny. Sad world where the people who rob banks and beat people up for no reason at all, are placed in the same building with those who opened a lithium battery and placed the lithium in mineral oil for their element collection.



[Edited on 10-11-2015 by Cou]

The Volatile Chemist - 10-11-2015 at 16:20

Yes, it is. Though I doubt this happens much. Probably over-dramatized in our little community here, unless we've lost a member to the bureaucracy...?

Cou - 10-11-2015 at 16:41

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Yes, it is. Though I doubt this happens much. Probably over-dramatized in our little community here, unless we've lost a member to the bureaucracy...?


So far I haven't heard any stories of innocent amateur chemists actually going to jail JUST for innocent experimentation or ordering glassware alone. Usually something leads up to it, like a tip to the local pigs from neighbors, or a fire causing the fire department to see the lab.

As for just ordering glassware, the worst I've ever seen is the glassware being confiscated.

Mesa - 10-11-2015 at 16:46

Auschems, argentscientific, vanbar, etc.

There are plenty of suppliers offering good quantities/range of high quality reagents(from a DIY chemist's perspective) and allowing shipping for most products.

I'm not sure whether it's taboo to name specific suppliers here but given argentscientific is a member of these forums and advertises here...

The Volatile Chemist - 10-11-2015 at 17:35

Quote: Originally posted by Mesa  
Auschems, argentscientific, vanbar, etc.

There are plenty of suppliers offering good quantities/range of high quality reagents(from a DIY chemist's perspective) and allowing shipping for most products.

I'm not sure whether it's taboo to name specific suppliers here but given argentscientific is a member of these forums and advertises here...

Naa, not taboo at all, as long as you're not advertising (lol, the Nike shoes posts...) or obstructing forum usage.

ahill - 11-11-2015 at 02:48

Bunnings Hardware. In particular the gardening section will have CuSO4, along with a lot of other handy (and suprisingly good quality) chemicals right along side it.

They have a bunch of good quality solvents too. Acetone, shellite (aka naptha), xylene, toluene, metho etc. I distilled DCM from their paint stripper the other week - that was a bit of fun, and DCM is a very useful in the lab.

They also have good quality sodium hydroxide, which along with HCl are the two work horses in my lab. (which is really just a garage with a really nice epoxy coated work bench.)

Unfortunately their HCl is rubbish. Only good for the crudest experiements. There are tricks on the net for cleaning it up to reagent quality, as long as you dont require it concentrated.

I got 99.97% methanol from Race Fuels in South Melbourne. Had to buy 20 liters tho. Not much fun lugging that across the city, and catching trams and trains - but hey - 20 liters of methanol ! Dunno what the other .03% is. Cyanide .. water - dunno - I distil it before I use it where I think that might be a problem. It doesnt leave a residue.

I've dealt with all the other suppliers mentioned here and would recommend them all. (they all provide varying degrees of quality, responsiveness, and value.)

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent. I also use a local crowd called westlab for glassware and other equipment - they have the decided advantage of being quick. (I can order on Wednesday, and I'll have the stuff for the weekend.)

Mesa - 11-11-2015 at 06:38

The Recochem shellite from bunnings contains a non-volatile waxy/oily adulterant, they started including it in the product about 3-4 years ago.

What's wrong with the bunning's HCl? I thought the only significant impurity was iron.


Edit: Frontline hobbies sells pure/unmixed methanol and nitromethane in minimum 500ml's if you ask at the front counter. They package and bottle it when it's requested so generally not on display.

A few other RC hobby stores also do this, but generally only for methanol.

[Edited on 11-11-2015 by Mesa]

Cou - 11-11-2015 at 14:09

Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


As a Texan... shit. Guess I'm gonna cancel that order and get a permit before ordering it again.

[Edited on 11-11-2015 by Cou]

j_sum1 - 11-11-2015 at 14:35

OP hasn't come back.
Feel free to U2U me, Copper. I do have a few suggestions and sources in Australia. Depending of course on what specifically you need.

Upsilon - 11-11-2015 at 15:02

Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

Cou - 11-11-2015 at 15:06

Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

He lives in Australia, probably just as bad if not worse than Texas for amateur chemists.

j_sum1 - 11-11-2015 at 15:10

Check upthread for the link to a discussion on the acquisition of glassware for Australians. Bottom line is that it is all pretty low-key. You can buy and own pretty much anything you want. The police may turn up to check you aren't making methamphetamines. then they go away and leave you alone.

Upsilon - 11-11-2015 at 15:12

Quote: Originally posted by Cou  

He lives in Australia, probably just as bad if not worse than Texas for amateur chemists.


Ah, ok. I'm in Florida so I guess I'm fine. I've order "scarier" things than distillation glassware before anyway without any problems (namely HgS powder, As2S3 as the mineral orpiment, and a huge box of 3% hydrogen peroxide). Still, I suppose I have nothing to worry about since I'm not doing anything wrong, but the confrontation would still be pretty unnerving. I'd rather have the NSA watching me than be confronted, in my opinion.

ahill - 13-11-2015 at 01:17

@Mesa - yeah I did used to distill the Bunnings shellite before I used it. Someone suggested a product called X55 solvent as an alternative to shellite - I got some - but it smells like a mixture of burning dog turds, asphalt and headache - and has a pronounced greasyness - made me really appreciate shellite.

I've seen something called vm&p naptha recommended - but I think maybe thats an Americanisim. In anycase with my few liters of shellite and X55 I've got more than I am every likely to use.

I dont know _what_ the impurity in their HCl is - iron sounds plausable. The MDS doesnt mention anything. I had some from years ago, and recently bought a different branded one from them - but it seems to have the same issues - leaves a greyish crystalline residue when evaporated to dryness. Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !

Tdep - 13-11-2015 at 01:44

Quote: Originally posted by ahill  


Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !


Just seconding the orange colouration on addition of peroxide. Definitely surprised me on the odd occasion, like making copper chloride by the typical HCl + peroxide method goes funky colours. Always considered it to be iron as well, not that i've ever had proof of that

HeYBrO - 13-11-2015 at 01:50

Quote: Originally posted by ahill  
Bunnings Hardware. In particular the gardening section will have CuSO4, along with a lot of other handy (and suprisingly good quality) chemicals right along side it.

They have a bunch of good quality solvents too. Acetone, shellite (aka naptha), xylene, toluene, metho etc. I distilled DCM from their paint stripper the other week - that was a bit of fun, and DCM is a very useful in the lab.

They also have good quality sodium hydroxide, which along with HCl are the two work horses in my lab. (which is really just a garage with a really nice epoxy coated work bench.)

Unfortunately their HCl is rubbish. Only good for the crudest experiements. There are tricks on the net for cleaning it up to reagent quality, as long as you dont require it concentrated.

I got 99.97% methanol from Race Fuels in South Melbourne. Had to buy 20 liters tho. Not much fun lugging that across the city, and catching trams and trains - but hey - 20 liters of methanol ! Dunno what the other .03% is. Cyanide .. water - dunno - I distil it before I use it where I think that might be a problem. It doesnt leave a residue.

I've dealt with all the other suppliers mentioned here and would recommend them all. (they all provide varying degrees of quality, responsiveness, and value.)

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent. I also use a local crowd called westlab for glassware and other equipment - they have the decided advantage of being quick. (I can order on Wednesday, and I'll have the stuff for the weekend.)



did you get diggers HCL? that stuff is ~28% and clear as water. Very cheap too. Since you're a fan of large amounts, keep your eye out on eBay as there is a guy who sometimes is selling 5 L of 68% HNO3 for $40 !!! and 50% H2O2 o.o and they're in melbourne if i recall correctly.

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by HeYBrO]

j_sum1 - 13-11-2015 at 02:21

I have had good experience with Diggers HCl too. No iron detected. Concentration varies a bit. Last two bottles I titrated came in at 10.8 M and 9.6M

Actually, I have had no reason to complain on any Diggers products.

ave369 - 13-11-2015 at 05:48

Quote: Originally posted by Tdep  
Always considered it to be iron as well, not that i've ever had proof of that


Why not try a simple test? There is a ton of reagents that allow to detect trivalent iron. Rhodanide, cyanoferrate, tannic acid all give strong, easily detectable colors. Just remember to neutralize the acid beforehand if you use cyanoferrate.

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by ave369]

Tdep - 13-11-2015 at 08:22

Quote: Originally posted by ave369  


Why not try a simple test? There is a ton of reagents that allow to detect trivalent iron. Rhodanide, cyanoferrate, tannic acid all give strong, easily detectable colors. Just remember to neutralize the acid beforehand if you use cyanoferrate.

[Edited on 13-11-2015 by ave369]


I have never tested because its never really mattered, I dont think ive ever had to do areaction that would be affected by a small amount of iron. I hardly do analytical chemistry, in fact the only time I ever use demineralised water is working with silver. Bit of metal contamination here and there doesnt worry me (except mercury in fish, I do worry about that given how much sushi I cant help but consume).
Are there other testing reagents? Oh wait, cyanoferrates are the things that give prussian blue as a positive yeah? Think I have some of that lying around from an old chemistry kit I gog when I was about 13...

The Volatile Chemist - 15-11-2015 at 14:02

Yeah, Ferrocyanide won't precipitate trivalent cations, I'm fairly certain (minus Fe3+).

tekkado - 16-11-2015 at 01:47

Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

same thing happened to me man, i admit i did go over board with an order from china. but about 2 months later the drug squad rocked up hoping to find a meth lab and after explaining were pretty cool with it all. the just took my larger flasks and all my condensers. qld too.

HeYBrO - 16-11-2015 at 02:52

Quote: Originally posted by tekkado  
Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

same thing happened to me man, i admit i did go over board with an order from china. but about 2 months later the drug squad rocked up hoping to find a meth lab and after explaining were pretty cool with it all. the just took my larger flasks and all my condensers. qld too.


What was the consequences if you didn't give them your flasks and condensers?

ave369 - 16-11-2015 at 03:28

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Yeah, Ferrocyanide won't precipitate trivalent cations, I'm fairly certain (minus Fe3+).


There are two kinds of cyanoferrate: ferrocyanide and ferricyanide. One results in Prussian blue with divalent iron, the other with trivalent.

[Edited on 16-11-2015 by ave369]

tekkado - 16-11-2015 at 04:41

Quote: Originally posted by HeYBrO  
Quote: Originally posted by tekkado  
Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

same thing happened to me man, i admit i did go over board with an order from china. but about 2 months later the drug squad rocked up hoping to find a meth lab and after explaining were pretty cool with it all. the just took my larger flasks and all my condensers. qld too.


What was the consequences if you didn't give them your flasks and condensers?

They were gonna take it regardless unless i got an eud. Theyre just concerned with diversion and your intentions.

HeYBrO - 16-11-2015 at 14:40

Quote: Originally posted by tekkado  
Quote: Originally posted by HeYBrO  
Quote: Originally posted by tekkado  
Quote: Originally posted by Upsilon  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

Chinese (ebay/aliexpress) glassware / distillation sets are fantastic value for money - the police _will_ (eventually) visit you if you order them. Unsettling, but not necessarily especially unpleasent.


Wait, what? Where do you live that they would actually do that? I ordered a distillation setup over a month ago, on eBay, from China, and I haven't heard squat about it.

same thing happened to me man, i admit i did go over board with an order from china. but about 2 months later the drug squad rocked up hoping to find a meth lab and after explaining were pretty cool with it all. the just took my larger flasks and all my condensers. qld too.


What was the consequences if you didn't give them your flasks and condensers?

They were gonna take it regardless unless i got an eud. Theyre just concerned with diversion and your intentions.


Makes no sense since its not illegal, but i respect your choice not to get into strife with the austhorites. EUDs are a bit of a token effort to stop illegal use of glassware, I mean how is a piece of paper protecting anyone? People can just buy it online anyway. Did you just buy more condensers from a local supplier with an EUD then?

tekkado - 16-11-2015 at 15:54

^sadly no. Between study and work i havent had the time for experimenting or anything.

The Volatile Chemist - 19-11-2015 at 10:14

Quote: Originally posted by ave369  
Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Yeah, Ferrocyanide won't precipitate trivalent cations, I'm fairly certain (minus Fe3+).


There are two kinds of cyanoferrate: ferrocyanide and ferricyanide. One results in Prussian blue with divalent iron, the other with trivalent.

[Edited on 16-11-2015 by ave369]

Yes, I know. But I was talking about the lack of +3 cation precipitates for the latter, so I brought it up. I'm not certain if the former precipitates any trivalent cations.

Copper - 25-11-2015 at 02:06

Hello, sorry for the wait.
I have found an alternative for methanol (available but only in huge quantities) in the flame colouring experiment - hand sanitizer (normal ethanol burns yellow). Also, about HCl, what how would you handle 32% (it would fume a lot)? And would it be safe to heat up around 3 molar hcl in the borax + hcl -> boric acid +nacl experiment for green flame? CuSO4 is easier to obtain as animal supplement, but H2O2 35% is only available in food grade. Auschem is a good site however it only has mostly solid chemicals.

Also a question on titration - would it be ok to substitute measuring cylinder for burette if accuracy is not that important (+-0.5M or so)? Also if accuracy is not important (+- 1M) would substituting own dissolved NaOH (standard volumetric flask procedure is used but NaOH absorbs water, NaOH from unopened container) still skew the titration results a lot? It's very hard to find standardised solutions here.

Thanks for all the responses.

NedsHead - 25-11-2015 at 02:59

for methanol try a performance automotive shop, that’s where I found mine

The Volatile Chemist - 28-11-2015 at 09:16

Quote: Originally posted by Copper  
Hello, sorry for the wait.
I have found an alternative for methanol (available but only in huge quantities) in the flame colouring experiment - hand sanitizer (normal ethanol burns yellow). Also, about HCl, what how would you handle 32% (it would fume a lot)? And would it be safe to heat up around 3 molar hcl in the borax + hcl -> boric acid +nacl experiment for green flame? CuSO4 is easier to obtain as animal supplement, but H2O2 35% is only available in food grade. Auschem is a good site however it only has mostly solid chemicals.

Also a question on titration - would it be ok to substitute measuring cylinder for burette if accuracy is not that important (+-0.5M or so)? Also if accuracy is not important (+- 1M) would substituting own dissolved NaOH (standard volumetric flask procedure is used but NaOH absorbs water, NaOH from unopened container) still skew the titration results a lot? It's very hard to find standardised solutions here.

Thanks for all the responses.

HCl sort-of fumes, but small quantities are fine to use in a ventilated area. Just protect your eyes and don't breath in the fumes.
+/- 1M should be achieved with NaOH from a container. You might heat it up a bit first, though. A Graduated cylinder should be fine for +/- 0.5M, though I wouldn't trust it past that. Be sure to use a good indicator, too. pH strips may not cut it, as you'll have to use a lot of them in a single titration. Phenolphthalein is the best. Also, a stir-plate is very helpful.

Copper - 28-11-2015 at 16:25

Ok thanks, do you think attempting to standardised Na2CO3 might work better than NaOH? (Na2CO3 in anhydrous form is used)? Sodium carbonate solution made in 500mL volumetric flask, digital scale to 2dp. Then maybe standardising HCl to that and the NaOH to the HCl? Would that be able to determine the concentration more accurately?

About the indicator, I have powder phenolphthalein, but I don't know what to store solution in if I make it (say I make 200mL of 1% at a time, then I put 30mL in a dropper, but other 170mL). Apparently phenolphthalein decomposes upon light so I can't use me semi-clear HDPE container to store them in. Large amber bottles are kind of hard to find.

Thanks

Mesa - 29-11-2015 at 03:15

Beer bottle and some parafilm works for short-mid term storage of light sensitive's. You can get uncrimped bottle caps from homebrew stores/woolworths.

For small amounts, pharmacies will sell empty amberglass bottles, or else some kind of <$5 product which comes in said bottles.

Although as an addendum, phenolpthalein indicator solution has always been stored/used in clear glass bottles at my tafe lab.

Na2CO3 doesn't need to be standardized. It's a primary standard. Simply weigh and dissolve in deionized water in a volumetric flask.

We use potassium hydrogen pthalate for titrating bases in the lab, it also being a primary standard. I tried to buy KHP from Australian scientific at the storefront(I live nearby) but was told I needed an EUD. I don't have a problem signing EUD's and have done so for previous purchases, but I got a bit annoyed as I am pretty sure it's not normally an EUD requiring product. Especially given it's usability is limited specifically to things no kewl/cook would have the slightest interest in.

[Edited on 29-11-2015 by Mesa]

j_sum1 - 29-11-2015 at 04:39

Copper, if you buy peroxide from a pharmacy and use it (easy to do) then you have some perfectly good amber bottles with nice teflon caps.

Mesa - 29-11-2015 at 12:46

Forgot to mention, Melbourne food depot is a decent source for a surprising array of chemicals otherwise uncommon/unavailable OTC.

propionate salts, nitrite salts, etc. to name a few.

The Volatile Chemist - 2-12-2015 at 12:20

Interesting. I'm surprised, I've now just said to myself "wish I lived in Aussie"...

kt5000 - 16-1-2016 at 23:00

Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

I dont know _what_ the impurity in their HCl is - iron sounds plausable. The MDS doesnt mention anything. I had some from years ago, and recently bought a different branded one from them - but it seems to have the same issues - leaves a greyish crystalline residue when evaporated to dryness. Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !


I bought two gallons of dirt cheap 29% HCl from Home Depot a couple years back. They sell it for swimming pools and it has a yellow impurity that we figured must be an iron compound. Simple distillation will bring over just the clear HCl and leave the yellow impurity in the boiling flask. It's time consuming, but makes for a cheap OTC source of HCl.

The Volatile Chemist - 20-1-2016 at 17:45

Quote: Originally posted by kt5000  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

I dont know _what_ the impurity in their HCl is - iron sounds plausable. The MDS doesnt mention anything. I had some from years ago, and recently bought a different branded one from them - but it seems to have the same issues - leaves a greyish crystalline residue when evaporated to dryness. Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !


I bought two gallons of dirt cheap 29% HCl from Home Depot a couple years back. They sell it for swimming pools and it has a yellow impurity that we figured must be an iron compound. Simple distillation will bring over just the clear HCl and leave the yellow impurity in the boiling flask. It's time consuming, but makes for a cheap OTC source of HCl.

Really, simple distillation? I don't say this sardonically, I just mean that I would assume one needs a vacuum set-up with ground glass, not because it's hard to get to 'come over' but because of the fumes. Can one really do it with a distillation flask, receiving flask, condenser, and rubber stoppers?

Etaoin Shrdlu - 20-1-2016 at 18:46

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by kt5000  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

I dont know _what_ the impurity in their HCl is - iron sounds plausable. The MDS doesnt mention anything. I had some from years ago, and recently bought a different branded one from them - but it seems to have the same issues - leaves a greyish crystalline residue when evaporated to dryness. Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !


I bought two gallons of dirt cheap 29% HCl from Home Depot a couple years back. They sell it for swimming pools and it has a yellow impurity that we figured must be an iron compound. Simple distillation will bring over just the clear HCl and leave the yellow impurity in the boiling flask. It's time consuming, but makes for a cheap OTC source of HCl.

Really, simple distillation? I don't say this sardonically, I just mean that I would assume one needs a vacuum set-up with ground glass, not because it's hard to get to 'come over' but because of the fumes. Can one really do it with a distillation flask, receiving flask, condenser, and rubber stoppers?

Sure. Just do it outside or somewhere else with ventilation where there's nothing around to rust. And, since HCl forms a 20% azeotrope with water, distilling 29% will lose you about a third of your HCl as gas. Dilute first.

The Volatile Chemist - 20-1-2016 at 18:57

Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu  
Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by kt5000  
Quote: Originally posted by ahill  

I dont know _what_ the impurity in their HCl is - iron sounds plausable. The MDS doesnt mention anything. I had some from years ago, and recently bought a different branded one from them - but it seems to have the same issues - leaves a greyish crystalline residue when evaporated to dryness. Addition of H2O2 causes an instant reddish brown discolouration. Some reactions I've done with it that I would expected to have been colourless were more like mango puree !


I bought two gallons of dirt cheap 29% HCl from Home Depot a couple years back. They sell it for swimming pools and it has a yellow impurity that we figured must be an iron compound. Simple distillation will bring over just the clear HCl and leave the yellow impurity in the boiling flask. It's time consuming, but makes for a cheap OTC source of HCl.

Really, simple distillation? I don't say this sardonically, I just mean that I would assume one needs a vacuum set-up with ground glass, not because it's hard to get to 'come over' but because of the fumes. Can one really do it with a distillation flask, receiving flask, condenser, and rubber stoppers?

Sure. Just do it outside or somewhere else with ventilation where there's nothing around to rust. And, since HCl forms a 20% azeotrope with water, distilling 29% will lose you about a third of your HCl as gas. Dilute first.

(Sorry about the giant chunk of text)
Wow, that's great. I didn't know that at all, thanks. I'll have to try that this summer. Sounds like fun.