Sciencemadness Discussion Board

K metal from KOH, Mg, and Diacetone Alcohol

runninfarmer - 11-10-2015 at 14:45

I've been studying this Nurdrage video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAo2F9ymKXA

Nurdrage uses tertiary alcohols to catalyze KOH reduction with Mg. He does it at 200C though and tert-butanol boils at 83C. Diacetone alcohol is also a tertiary alcohol but boils at 160C. It'd be nice to do the reaction without reflux. Has anyone ever tried this? I wonder if the ketone group would interfere with the reaction? I'm contemplating trying it out but curious to see if anyone else has tried it.

[Edited on 11-10-2015 by runninfarmer]

[Edited on 11-10-2015 by runninfarmer]

j_sum1 - 11-10-2015 at 15:32

There is extensive discussion on this topic here.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14970

I am not sure if anyone has tried using diacetone alcohol. I don't recall reading it. You could always give it a try.
The tricky thing for most people seems to be coming up with a suitable medium to perform the reaction in. Paraffin oils are a bit hit and miss. The oil needs to meet specific requirements and not all of them do. For this reason, I suggest duplicating the method using standard reagents and then, having achieved success, attempting with the diacetone alcohol.

I recommend also requesting a mod to merge this with the main thread so all information is in one place.

blogfast25 - 11-10-2015 at 15:35

Quote: Originally posted by runninfarmer  
I've been studying this Nurdrage video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAo2F9ymKXA

Nurdrage uses tertiary alcohols to catalyze KOH reduction with Mg. He does it at 200C though and tert-butanol boils at 83C. Diacetone alcohol is also a tertiary alcohol but boils at 160C. It'd be nice to do the reaction without reflux. Has anyone ever tried this? I wonder if the ketone group would interfere with the reaction? I'm contemplating trying it out but curious to see if anyone else has tried it.



This really belongs in the relevant sticky thread. I suggest a moderator move it there:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14970&...

Per se not a bad idea but I think the oxygen from the caboxyl group will react with any K formed, assuming even it does form. Try a test tube experiment?

[Edited on 11-10-2015 by blogfast25]

blogfast25 - 11-10-2015 at 15:45

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Paraffin oils are a bit hit and miss. The oil needs to meet specific requirements and not all of them do. For this reason, [...]


I have to disagree a bit here: quite a broad variety of inert/aprotic sovents were found to work: Shellsol D (Pok, Nurd, me), paraffinic oil (Nurd), baby oil (Nurd), kerosene (me), Decalin (Nurd)... all worked.

As long as it's dry, BP around C and aprotic/inert it will work in all likelihood.

j_sum1 - 11-10-2015 at 15:54

Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Paraffin oils are a bit hit and miss. The oil needs to meet specific requirements and not all of them do. For this reason, [...]


I have to disagree a bit here: quite a broad variety of inert/aprotic sovents were found to work: Shellsol D (Pok, Nurd, me), paraffinic oil (Nurd), baby oil (Nurd), kerosene (me), Decalin (Nurd)... all worked.

As long as it's dry, BP around C and aprotic/inert it will work in all likelihood.

Ok. Paraphrase. Mine didn't work. I am looking for an alternative oil. Kero was next on my list.