Sciencemadness Discussion Board

chemistry and school

chemical weirdness - 30-9-2015 at 12:22

Hi
Well I badly forgot my password for another account and I am not getting it on my mailnevertheless I made an account
My main question here is I am may apply to igcses next year and I love chemistry so much that I want to be a chemical engineer my question is what do these people do and if so will anyone recommend me doing a level
Thanks

szuko03 - 30-9-2015 at 13:22

I think what you really need to do is go to college or what have you and see how it turns out. You may think you like chemistry now only to find out you truly like a chemistry related subject but not chemistry in its raw form if you will. There are a lot of jobs in the field of chemistry but I really would advise against going to school with this rock solid idea of who you are going to be when you come out.

It is not bad if you change your mind or suddenly you think there is a different path for you. I am not trying to belittle your idea and my opinions are probably skewed because i couldnt get the degree before the money went away but I really really would not go to college thinking you will get a job, that is a set up for failure. Go to college to learn, go into chemistry because you love it, do not base your life around a job you may or may not get. There is no money in chemistry only knowledge there is money in a job, they are two separate things.

If you love learning and you love understanding go into chemistry if you think it will get you a job dont go to college. You wouldnt believe how many people answered "to get a job" when my first year philosophy professor asked "what is the reason for universities" :(

[Edited on 30-9-2015 by szuko03]

aga - 30-9-2015 at 13:30

+1

Learn what you can the best you can, which generally means learning something that interests you.

When it comes to the whole Job thing, well, that will depend on what you're good at, luck, market demand, qualifications etc etc.

j_sum1 - 30-9-2015 at 15:46

Making money is really only a combination of three things:
1. Ambition and motivation
2. How well you position yourself to take advantage of opportunities that come your way
3. The exact mix of opportunities that come your way

A chemistry education, or indeed any education may or may not help with the above. Certainly, #1 will be improved if you pursue something you love.

Yttrium2 - 30-9-2015 at 19:49

I think chemical engineers put pipes together( that type of stuff.... refineries..)? Versus emphasizing the chemistry aspect

I'm wondering how Craig venter did what he did with (just?) A BS in biochemistry

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by Yttrium2]

Darkstar - 30-9-2015 at 20:34

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
I'm wondering how Craig venter did what he did with (just?) A BS in biochemistry


A formal education is not the only way to become well-versed in the sciences. School is certainly not the only place you can learn such things. Sure, it helps to be taught on a more personal level by an experienced professional in an academic setting, but there's not exactly a shortage of knowledge out there on the internet, either. All it takes is a little persistence and dedication. It really just boils down to how bad you want to learn it and how far you're willing to go to do it. And in this day and age, it's never been easier to teach yourself things like biology, chemistry, physics etc.

Also, the level of degree one holds isn't always indicative of his or her level of knowledge and/or experience. I'd be willing to bet that there are numerous people here on SM who don't even have a bachelor's degree yet are every bit as knowledgeable as anyone with an advanced degree in chemistry.

Yttrium2 - 30-9-2015 at 20:50

I'm more so wondering if his studies in physiology and pharmacology contributed to his successes, if so how?

No disrespect intended, but I didn't ask for your opinion on that subject. It seems as if you are refuting a claim that I am not making.

What is it that you consider to be formal/ not formal?
Home work is always part of the game.

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by Yttrium2]

Darkstar - 30-9-2015 at 21:24

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
I didn't ask for your opinion on that subject. It seems as if you are refuting a claim that I am not making.


I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you, as that was not my intent. Rather, I was simply pointing out that having "just" a bachelor's degree doesn't somehow mean that a person can't still make important influential contributions to their field of study. I suppose it was just the way you worded the sentence is all.
Quote:
Regardless of what you think, formal or not, a good teacher can make a huge impact. They usually do.


I completely agree, though I never suggested otherwise. A good teacher can make all the difference.
Quote:
What is it that you consider to be formal?


From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Formal education occurs in a structured environment whose explicit purpose is teaching students. Usually, formal education takes place in a school environment with classrooms of multiple students learning together with a trained, certified teacher of the subject. Most school systems are designed around a set of values or ideals that govern all educational choices in that system. Such choices include curriculum, physical classroom design, student-teacher interactions, methods of assessment, class size, educational activities, and more.


Informal is basically just the opposite, learning on your own outside of the classroom.

Yttrium2 - 30-9-2015 at 21:40

It seems as if everytime someone asks a question a diversionary, irrelevant answer is provided.

Everyone is beating around the bush, wikipedia has been ruined by the kooks, aswell as all science forums. It is getting better though.

Still, the words of my professor have resonated, when I asked are there any good science forums, and he gave me a simple No as an answer.


The point you were trying to make about the importance of self directed studies was mean. Of course it's important to study on your own, even if going to "formal" school. It's as if your objective was to make it so I don't beat myself up about not having a degreel or something

Yttrium2 - 30-9-2015 at 21:56

Quote: Originally posted by Darkstar  
Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
I'm wondering how Craig venter did what he did with (just?) A BS in biochemistry


A formal education is not the only way to become well-versed in the sciences.


:)

j_sum1 - 30-9-2015 at 22:09

Back to the OP
Quote: Originally posted by chemical weirdness  
My main question here is I am may apply to igcses next year and I love chemistry so much that I want to be a chemical engineer my question is what do these people do and if so will anyone recommend me doing a level
Thanks

Well, I started my degree in chemical engineering and switched to materials. But I did share classes with the chem guys and did see what it was all about.
Surprisingly, chemical engineering involved rather little of what I would term chemistry. That was one of the reasons for my change and that was pretty much the end of my formal chemistry education too. Lots of thermodynamics. Lots of mechanical engineering that related to pressure vessels and so forth. Lots of fluid dynamics and heat transfer. Lots of process control and feedback systems. And of course mathematics -- but only that which had direct practical application -- difficult enough but leaving out the fun stuff and avoiding the rigour that mathematicians love.
The thing I notice on these boards and that has renewed my interest in the subject is the detailed knowledge that chemists have that chemical engineers don't. These things seem to be not so much chemicals as friends. There is a deep familiarity that goes with the knowledge that lends itself to innovative problem-solving. Chemists know off the top of their heads which solvents are miscible, which salts are soluble, what oxidation states various elements possess, what conditions are required for decarboxylation, azeotropes, isotopes and all manner of details. Chemical engineers IME do not have this kind of knowledge. Neither students nor professionals. Which is not to say that they lack knowledge or that their endeavours are worthless. What you learn as an engineer is "engineering think". A particular approach to problem-solving that is more holistic more general and entirely pragmatic.

Now, I have to say, your mileage may vary. A lot will depend on what school you attend and what their program is as well as how it is taught and who is teaching. The semantics that I have outlined are not the sort of thing that is easy to discern on a university brochure. If engineering floats your boat, then go for it. If it is chemistry, then pursue it. But don't automatically assume that chemical engineering is both. It might be, and it might suit you. But equally, it might not.

Sorry to give such a "meh" answer. For career pathway advice there is no substitute for having a clear head, knowing exactly what you want and having a good sit-down with someone who is knowledgeable on the particular opportunities that lie before you.

(And I am pretty sure that this spiel helps not a jot in a practical sense but at least it will point you in the right direction.)

Darkstar - 30-9-2015 at 22:32

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
The point you were trying to make about the importance of self directed studies was mean. Of course it's important to study on your own, even if going to "formal" school.


I didn't mean it that way. I believe both are equally important. There is something a bit more noble about being self-taught, though, at least in my opinion. Nevertheless, whether done formally or informally, I have nothing but respect for those trying to better themselves through education.
Quote:
It's as if your objective was to make it so I don't beat myself up about not having a degreel or something


There's absolutely no reason to beat yourself up for not having a degree, especially if you're currently in the process of earning one. If anything, you should be proud of yourself for trying to better yourself through higher education. It doesn't matter if you stop at an associate's degree or go all the way to a PhD, earning a college degree is something to be proud of. And the fact that you're here, on a science board, learning outside of the classroom is all the more reason to not beat yourself up.
Quote:
:)


Like I said, just because you have a bachelor's degree in biochemistry does not mean that your knowledge of biochemistry is restricted to the "bachelor level." College isn't the only venue for becoming more educated.

Seriously, though, I don't even know what the problem is here. I'm starting to wonder if you're just trolling me. I'm not disagreeing with anything you've said, just to be clear. It was just the way you worded the question, making it sound as if you found it hard to believe that someone with "just" a BS in biochemistry could end up contributing so much to his field of study.

Yttrium2 - 1-10-2015 at 06:53

I've repeatedly asked if his other studies (pharmacology and physiology ) have helped lead to his developments. I've repeatedly clarified, and you keep resorting to being confused as if I have not spent ample time clarifying.

If it was just a BS in biochemistry that led him to his developments, I'm interested. I don't think just a bachelors in biochemistry could lead to such developments



[Edited on 1-10-2015 by Yttrium2]

aga - 1-10-2015 at 08:33

University Courses are not the only way people learn things.

Some people have an avid interest in a subject, and never take a university course in it, yet end up with a serious wealth of expertise in that subject (arguably more than someone who just took a course).

The Batchelor of Sciences degree in Biochem does not mean that was all that he knew at the time.

Edit :

If it's something that has not been discovered yet, Who exactly is going to teach it ?

[Edited on 1-10-2015 by aga]

Darkstar - 1-10-2015 at 11:06

Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
I've repeatedly asked if his other studies (pharmacology and physiology ) have helped lead to his developments. I've repeatedly clarified, and you keep resorting to being confused as if I have not spent ample time clarifying.


I'm not confused at all; I'm well aware of what you're asking. But I don't know the answer to your question so I'm not going to try to answer it. If you're really that interested in what exactly contributed to Craig Venter's success, why don't you just write to the guy and ask him? Who better to answer such a personal question than Venter himself? I'm sure someone as passionate about biochemistry as Venter is would be more than happy to answer you.

Upsilon - 1-10-2015 at 11:18

Another thing to note is that the level of chemistry that will get you a decent job is much more complex than what you generally see around here. It's not going to be like hobby chemistry where you do whatever experiment you whim. If you're fine with that, then more power to you. But for me, chemistry is a hobby and I prefer to keep it that way.