Sciencemadness Discussion Board

possible to make 1-butanol from OTC ingredients???

Cou - 13-9-2015 at 12:30

I have searched the household products database, there are products that contain 1-butanol but only 15% which would require highly precise fractional distillation. Making 1-butanol from butane is a hard multistep process that can't be done amateur.

CuReUS - 14-9-2015 at 05:42

I remember someone recently posting a synthesis of butyric acid from butter.;)
the acid could be converted to ester and reduced using Na/alcohol to get 1-butanol

Cou - 14-9-2015 at 13:11

Quote: Originally posted by CuReUS  
I remember someone recently posting a synthesis of butyric acid from butter.;)
the acid could be converted to ester and reduced using Na/alcohol to get 1-butanol

I posted that "synth". It doesn't give pure butyric acid liquid, it's just for demonstrating the smell.

battoussai114 - 14-9-2015 at 13:32

Anyone can think of a way of going from butadiene to 1-butanol? I wouldn't want to handle butadiene but it might be worth a shot since thermal decomposition of buna or other butadiene polymer will get you some.

aga - 14-9-2015 at 13:33

You made butyric acid - work it up to make useful butyric acid.

The raw material is in there ...

The Volatile Chemist - 14-9-2015 at 14:02

Aga, his synth isn't pure. Boiling butter is OK for cooking, but we promote actual chemistry. :P I'm sure he'd already thought of the work-up. Nonetheless, Aga is right, you should at least try. Unless you're low on reagia.

aga - 14-9-2015 at 14:04

He made Butryic.

Just needs to isolate it no ?

The Volatile Chemist - 14-9-2015 at 14:25

Ah, yes :) I see. Hopefully a distillation yields no side products. Good luck.

Cou - 14-9-2015 at 16:56

Problem is that it's hard to do stoichiometry with complex substances such as butter/lard. Would you assume it's 100% saturated triglyceride?

I will try this once I get distillation apparatus.



On a side note: If your vomit smells like butanoic acid, you need to cut down on dem fatty foods.

[Edited on 15-9-2015 by Cou]

UC235 - 14-9-2015 at 17:12

Here is a breakdown of approximate fatty acid content of butter. (http://www.eatwisconsincheese.com/dairy/butter/butter-basics...) As you can see, it's only about 3% butyric acid. If you hate life, you could work up some butter to purified butterfat, convert it to biodiesel, slap a large column on it and slowly pull off the forerun. Methyl butyrate boils at 102C and should be the first thing to come off the column.

I have done something similar using "liquid coconut cooking oil" to recover much larger amounts of methyl octanoate and decanoate. The forerun which I discarded contained at least some methyl hexanoate and had a lovely pineapple fragrance.

[Edited on 15-9-2015 by UC235]

Dr.Bob - 14-9-2015 at 17:48

I have worked with butyric acid and if you make enough of it, you will want to vomit, as it smells like a wet goat with athlete's foot and no deodorant. You would be better off to find any way to get to the alcohol that avoids the acid altogether. 1-butanol is used for some flavorings and fragrances, so you might be able to find some. It may also be isolated from fermentations and fusel oil, the leftovers from distilling the ethanol from a beer. You might be able to find some of that out there, it's composition was documented here a while back, search for it. Sadly, 1-butanol is normally a small part of most normal yeast fermentions, but some yeasts make up to 10% 1-butanol. Dupont and other companies have been trying to make butanols biologically, but it is still not very economical yet. Sadly, I don't know a simple route to it from OTCs, but it is readily available, likely even on Ebay or some other similar source.

It is also documented in a few links:

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/articles/8774/fusel-oil-recyc...

http://homedistiller.org/intro/methanol/fusel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusel_alcohol

Ozone - 14-9-2015 at 18:32

For interest, look up anaerobic fermentation using Clostridium acetylbutylicum (et al). This is the classic acetone-n-butanol-ethanol fermentation scheme, and yields of up to 2%/broth can be achieved.

O3

Mesa - 14-9-2015 at 20:06

There are many OTC possibilities to make n-butanol, it's just gunna cost a lot more than buying it from a supplier is all.

Butyl cellusolve aka butoxy ethanol, and ethylene glycol mono butyl ether are somewhat available OTC ethers.

Butyl acetate likewise can be found OTC.

The ester can be hydrolysed pretty efficiently with just dilute acid.

The ether should be oxidized to an ester at room temp with hypochlorite initially as per the often discussed rhodium writeup.