Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Startup chemical distribution company

Startup chemical distribution company

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 08:40

Greetings sciencemadness members. I am starting a chemical supply business and would like to list some of the products that are available.
Glacial acetic acid, acetone reagent grade, aluminum sulfate, ammonium chloride, ammonium hydroxide 26 Baume 29.4%, ammonium persulfate, buffer solution ph 4, 7, and 10, calcium carbonate, calcium chloride anhydrous, calcium hydroxide, chloroform, citric acid, copper sulfate, ethyl acetate 99% lab grade, ethyl alcohol 200 proof denatured, ethylene glycol 99.9%, ferric chloride 40%, ferrous sulfate, formaldehyde solution 37%, Formic acid (purified), glycerin 99.5%, heptane laboratory grade, hexane laboratory grade, hydrochloric acid reagent 37%, hydrogen peroxide 35 and 50%, anhydrous isopropyl and methyl alcohol, MEK lab grade, methylene chloride lab grade, nickel chloride, nickel sulfate, nitric acid reagent grade 70%, oleic acid reagent grade 37%, oxalic acid, pentane, perchloroethylene, phosphoric acid 75 and 85%, potassium hydroxide, potassium permanganate, propylene glycol, silver nitrate, sodium nitrate, nitrite, persulfate, and hydroxide, sodium silicate, sodium thiosulfate, sulfamic acid, sulfuric acid reagent grade 99%, tetrahydrofuran, toluene nitration grade, trichloroethylene, tri sodium phosphate, urea, and xylene. I didn't list everything so feel free to inquire if I have something not listed. Thank you

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 08:48

I forgot to add that I also have ammonium nitrate porous prill (explosive grade) for impact targets. It is a micro prill and superior to anything else I have tried. And my price is almost half what others ask. In fact all my products are very competitively priced.

Big Boss - 30-8-2015 at 09:08

Do you have a website?

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 09:29

Not yet. I was thinking about using e-bay but I'm not sure about their policies regarding some items. I have been doing business the old fashion way sellng locally but considering the prices I could offer compared to what I have seen elsewhere I figured I need to expand. This is the first online route I have used so far

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 09:43

I'm not familiar with the workings of these forums concerning contact information. I don't want to post my phone # on the Internet for obvious reasons is there a way that if someone was interested they could contact me privately on this site?

aga - 30-8-2015 at 10:15

If you're going to build this into a Business, then you'll need to put up a phone number, email, website etc.

Contact ebay and ask them about their policies.

Re-work your figures if you choose ebay and paypal, as a chunk falls off your profits.

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 10:38

That is one of the reasons I would like to avoid eBay. I Most likely will create my own website but in the meantime I would like to deal directly with sciencemadness members. I frequently come across individuals who can't find certain chemicals. I would like to make it possible for them to contact me if I could accomadate their needs.

Big Boss - 30-8-2015 at 10:46

That's nice of you to be working with forum members, best of luck with sales.

szuko03 - 30-8-2015 at 10:55

If I might make a suggestion, if you can you should do a simple excel table with prices and quantity too. Put how much you charge for shipping and where you ship to. You might get more business that way

aga - 30-8-2015 at 11:28

I doubt you'll make enough money from SM members to create a viable business.

May i make a suggestion ?

Try Multiface marketing, which i invented (despite it exisiting years before

)

Same stock. Differing prices. Different presentation. Different people selling it (for a %).

Ebay shop sells 'tame' chemicals.
Second Ebay shop sells Vitamin Supplements.
Third Ebay shop sells chemistry sets containing just UI paper and table salt.
Website sells anything Legal.
Second website sells Fireworks.
Third website sells Plant Food chemicals.
Resellers sell whatever they want to (all on their head).
SM route sells whatever you got to whoever can afford it.
Drive-by store sells whatever they can afford in cash.

I expect a 0.2% revenue from ALL of you who use this idea.

Certainly works 4 me.

[Edited on 30-8-2015 by aga]

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 11:32

Thanks for the advice. I'm working on a price list but I am unsure of the shipping prices. For instance are there any special shipping requirements for 50% H2O2? As a reference I sell 10 pounds NH4NO3 for $50 locally.

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 11:43

I'm not intending to make a business from sm members. I'm just in the position of having bulk chemicals on hand some of which can be hard to find and as I stated in my previous post I have noticed that some members can't find said items. I am in the process of establishing a true company and in the meantime why not help each other? After all that's what this forum is all about, Sharing with each other the fascination of chemistry

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 12:04

This is an example of some of the items I have. I prefer to sell the acids in the 2.5 liter manufacturers bottle but I would consider selling smaller portions. As for price would $75 be a good price for 2.5 liters 70% reagent grade nitric acid?

aga - 30-8-2015 at 12:07

Nah. That will never work.

If you make no $ then it cannot work = untrustable.

Information is Free, and its the one thing you can give away 100% and still keep all of it (some diseases work that way too).

You simply cannot Sell things to people and also expect them to believe it's for altruistic reasons : doesn't work.

Erase that idea and go back to 'Cheaper for hard-to-get chemicals'.

That works much better.

Edit:

Our posts crossed, confusing things.

$70 for 2.5L Reagent Grade HNO₃ sounds High, although i have no idea what it is worth in the US.

Does the Postage for 3Kg (bottle + packaging) cost much more than 0.8kg (500ml bottle +packaging) ?

[Edited on 30-8-2015 by aga]

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 12:28

That's the thing I'm unsure of. Shipping prices and requirement for different substances. If anyone is interested in any of the items I listed just ask and I will give the price or maybe we could trade for items that I don't have. The idea here is that I have noticed some people can't find quality chemicals and I would like to fix that problem. I know it's easier said than done but I guess that I am an idealist.

aga - 30-8-2015 at 12:57

If you're an Idealist and want to do something, lack of money will eventually stop you.

Make money and supply chems at a profit and you'll be around for longer than a week.

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 13:14

I must have been misunderstood. Of course I will be making a profit from what I sell. I am fortunate to have a supplier that I buy bulk for low and sell it higher. My intentions are to make a business and I am letting everyone on this forum know what I have and that my prices will be competitive to say the least. These posts are just a way to let some people know what products are available before I have my site up and running

aga - 30-8-2015 at 13:21

Clearly this is all new to you.

You're not doing too bad so far.

Honesty helps enormously : you do not look like a shark yet.

If you would like any input on the Business side, i'd be happy to help.

Corrosive Joeseph - 30-8-2015 at 13:32

Oh l dunno, l'm impressed so far but as aga says, time will tell.................

OP : Where are you based, by the way?

[Edited on 30-8-2015 by Corrosive Joeseph]

aga - 30-8-2015 at 13:35

WTF was that CJ ?

That was a non-comment.

Nothing to say, say nothing ?

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 13:41

I suppose I can understand why you would be wary of someone on the Internet. I'm 36 and have only been communicating (via this forum) online for a month or two but I have read some rediculous, insulting, and uncalled for posts plenty of times on other forums I have visited but not participated. I know I can't prove it but I honestly only intend to help others while making money doing something I love at the same time

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 13:45

I live in south tx which is not as bad (at least where I live) as everyone thinks regarding Chem laws

The Volatile Chemist - 30-8-2015 at 14:20

Quote: Originally posted by aga

I doubt you'll make enough money from SM members to create a viable business.

May i make a suggestion ?

Try Multiface marketing, which i invented (despite it exisiting years before

Hold on, let me copy this to my desktop. THis is going to be my business model. THanks aga!

Kidding. But a rather interesting idea. Multifaceting should work if stocking doesn't kill you first

Amos - 30-8-2015 at 14:20

If you're going to make a website at some point, show us what will be on the website. Pricing table, catalogue with images(put them on imgur if you must), anything that will make people more likely to buy from you.

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 16:50

I am working on that and I will post prices tomorrow. Thank you for your suggestions.

Bert - 30-8-2015 at 18:19

Good luck with your enterprise. But you need to learn all about HazMat shipping if you're going to offer to sell and ship chemicals- And that's a mind numbingly large swot of information in the USA.

Brom - 30-8-2015 at 18:46

That is what I'm concerned about. I don't even know if this will be feasable considering shipping requirements of certain items. Can you suggest a site to start looking into this?

aga - 31-8-2015 at 12:48

Well, in the Real World, not everything is done according to the Laws and Strictures of the land ...

Business is all about Risk versus Reward.

The Volatile Chemist - 3-9-2015 at 13:59

I love the game of risk

aga - 3-9-2015 at 14:30

There's Risk and Certainty.

Selling drugs generally is done with a Certainty of being Deaded or Banged Up.

Business is different in that there is a Risk of being Inhumed or Banged Up.

Edit:

Oh ! The Board Game called Risk !
Yes. Good game. Me likes too.
Doesn't last too long like Monopoly.

[Edited on 3-9-2015 by aga]

The Volatile Chemist - 4-9-2015 at 12:45

That's hilarious that you compare it

Have you ever heard of ...riskopoly? It's the capitalist's favorite game

http://www.gilwood.org/riskopoly.htm
It's a lot of fun, and lasts about as long as a normal monopoly game.
I played it with 5 people, and we formed factions really fast... I won.

Texium - 4-9-2015 at 15:02

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

That's hilarious that you compare it

Have you ever heard of ...riskopoly? It's the capitalist's favorite game

http://www.gilwood.org/riskopoly.htm
It's a lot of fun, and lasts about as long as a normal monopoly game.
I played it with 5 people, and we formed factions really fast... I won.

Jeez, to me that looks pointlessly complicated and frustrating! But nowhere near as much as this...

aga - 4-9-2015 at 15:18

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

It's a lot of fun, and lasts about as long as a normal monopoly game.

People die of old age in Monopoly games before anyone wins.

BromicAcid - 4-9-2015 at 16:25

Quote: Originally posted by Brom

That is what I'm concerned about. I don't even know if this will be feasable considering shipping requirements of certain items. Can you suggest a site to start looking into this?

Look into getting 40 hour Hazmat certified (HAZWOPER). Cost is $300-$500, and you will need yearly refresher training (at a reduced cost).

Once you are 40 hour certified and you have a business then you can ship hazards materials through most of the larger shipping companies. You apply for shipping through the company and if you have the credentials they send you a box with everything you need to get started.

You will likely need more stickers before you can do anything. Shipping is easy, take the shipping book (usually supplied), look up the chemical. The book will tell you the quantities you can ship along with recommended packaging. You an always go to a higher grade of packaging. Most hazardous things require special hazmat shipping charges. Packaging itself can be spendy, most things we shipped at my last company involved an All Pack box which is essentially a box inside a metal container inside a bag wrapped in absorbent material inside of a box (actual configuration may vary). The box itself has certain testing on it which lets you bypass some regulations and restrictions.

It's not so hard as one might expect so long as you take it step by step. However shipping is still costly and many amateur chemists might scoff at paying $20 for shipping even if that is what it legitimately costs.

Brom - 5-9-2015 at 13:43

Thanks for the info BromicAcid. This is an example of the packaging I have for my acids do you think it will suffice?

szuko03 - 5-9-2015 at 13:51

I can not comment on hazmat items as I have never shipped them. I ordered hydrochloric acid, among other things, from united nuclear and they shipped it in what appeared to be a converted paint can. It arrived and i had to pry the top off of this paint can to reveal the bottle in a cardboard thing surrounded by packing peanuts. I thought this was an ingenious design considering you dont want it to break.

This was not a hazmat shipment though. My guess is packaging is different when it comes to actually shipping hazmat. Thick walled cardboard with a snug fitting insert would seem good but again never did it. For what its worth it looks good to me

Texium - 5-9-2015 at 13:55

If I were you, I'd throw in some styrofoam peanuts to fill the gaps, and possibly some absorbent material as well. Looks like it may still have a bit too much freedom to wiggle around with its current configuration.
I second szuko03 on the paint can idea. I've never had to ship anything that way, but if I was shipping something somewhat hazardous, that's definitely what I would use. You can buy brand new quart or gallon size ones at Home Depot et al for a very affordable price.

ganger631 - 6-9-2015 at 22:44

Are you planning to ship Internationally? If so, you have my business.

BromicAcid - 6-9-2015 at 23:41

@ szuko03 & zts16

These boxes are performance rated and certified when packed as intended by the manufacturer. If you add peanuts to the box and the instructions don't tell you to do that, well, if something happens at that point it is all on you.

@Brom

First check the packing group and restrictions in the federal regulations, 49 CFT SS 072.101 (I am attaching the line for hydrochloric acid for reference) After you have the packing group (and if the material is even shippable plus any restrictions on air travel) then compare to the packaging itself. You can only use performance rated packaging for hazardous materials (as far as I know) and the setup you have there looks like it was certainly performance rated (I was part of getting a box configuration performance rated at one point). Sometimes each box will come with its own paperwork. No matter, if the box is rated then it will be stamped on the box. I am attaching a key on how to read the stamp from the FMCSA. So you know your packing group, you know your restrictions on amounts, and you know your rating for the box. If you meet those checks then you should be in business (so long as your carrier is certified).

CharlieA - 7-9-2015 at 09:23

Not to be mean, but it appears that you are singularly unprepared for the type of business you propose.

Amos - 7-9-2015 at 13:15

Quote: Originally posted by CharlieA

Not to be mean, but it appears that you are singularly unprepared for the type of business you propose.

Not mean, just pessimistic and unconstructive

CharlieA - 7-9-2015 at 16:33

I did not intend to be mean, but I certainly am pessimistic about the OP's chances for success. If I have anything constructive to say, the OP needs to do more of his own research into his business requirements, and not rely on his fellow forum members doing all of his business research for him. It seems to me that his true forte is to ask questions.

Brom - 7-9-2015 at 17:46

Exchange of knowledge requires both questions and answers. That's why I am here. I started this thread to inform about the products I have and get some input from anyone who is familiar with the subject and wants to comment and is willing to give advice. I was not asking to be spoon fed if that is what you are implying.

BromicAcid - 7-9-2015 at 18:12

There are many barriers to entry into the chemical industry. In many cases the laws and regulations are so deep that you need someone in the business to even point you in the correct direction. Honestly, this is a forum, and this topic is well within the bounds of constructive.

j_sum1 - 7-9-2015 at 18:28

Well...
If you want an exemplar, take a look at this guy:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=61604

Some time running an ebay business. Some background in the field. A clear business plan. Contacts and suppliers already worked out. And then, expanding his business by canvassing the support of SM. I think he will stay afloat. But it is clear that his market is greater than just us home chemists.

Brom - 7-9-2015 at 18:58

I am just planning on doing this in my spare time. I have no intentions of quitting my day job and that's not the reason I am doing this. But I do believe this could be a lucrative and enjoyable endeavor and provide a valuable service to people. Thanks for all the advice it has been very helpful.

Dr.Bob - 9-9-2015 at 12:02

Brom,

I ship books and equipment all of the time. I also work with and receive chemicals daily as well as work with many hazmat compounds. The rules for shipping most hazardous chemicals are very complex and the penalties can be very high for shipping things incorrectly. Some non-US companies can get away with it, as the US feds cannot arrest them in China easily, so they can ship things in the wrong way with little risk. The Chinese also blew up a port recently, killing hundreds, due to such processes.

But to be honest, having dealt with chemicals for 30 years and shipping things for 10, I try to avoid shipping anything that has any hazard, as it is very hard to do correctly, and the risks are high if you either are caught, or, even worse, your package leaks in shipment. Liquids have their own set of extra rules. I had had packages coming to me leak, and that can create up to a $5000 fine for the shipper plus liability if you dissolve the UPS truck with your package. Not trying to be a kill joy, just know the facts, and they make it hard to do business in the US. But you can ship non-hazmat solids readily, as long as you follow the rules. So selling salts, inorganics, metals, and other solids is not a big deal. Just selling silica gel, alumina, carbonates, and others would be a good business and there are people here that might buy from you. But acids, liquids and hazardous chemicals are a pain to ship and require a fair amount of time, effort and money to handle.

aga - 9-9-2015 at 12:17

Never ever be idealistic in Business.

If it doesn't make money, it does not work.

If it makes a Lot of money, then you can afford some altruism.

Even Ideals cost quite a lot these days.

Brom - 9-9-2015 at 15:08

Didn't we have this conversation already Aga? I would be selling my products for a profit of course. And after looking into this I see the restraints placed upon individuals trying to do such a thing. I talked to someone at U.P.S. and they were saying something about having some haz-mat certification and a whole bunch of junk. I figured it would be expensive and require specific packaging but I had no idea that they just won't do it. Now I'm not saying I'm not going to do all that I need to to be able to ship haz-mat but now I understand why people would say I can't do this. I guess I have some I told you so's coming.

The Volatile Chemist - 11-9-2015 at 12:43

Huh, I'd planned on asking these questions a few years from now. Salts, then, are best, I guess. I have a unique market idea, and will probably start with ebay for a while (though the market idea wouldn't work well on ebay itself). I'm also planning on keeping such a business as a project; having a job for a good while. If it doesn't work out, it won't be too big of a problem. 30 years to umbrella corporation, though

Eventually going to buy out Aldrich...

I suggest the business idea be kept simple, and grow slowly. You'll get more foundation, and find your niche.

aga - 11-9-2015 at 13:21

People just Talking tend to Know It All.

Best thing is to just give it a try and see what happens.

Chances are that unless you're selling drug or explosive precursors, it will all be fine.

Please do at least a 2 year business plan, including cashflow and profit/loss forecasts.

Absolutely no point in starting a business that loses money.

(U2U if you want any help on the planning)

Edit:

The P&L tells you if it will be worthwhile.

The Cashflow tells you if you can afford it.

[Edited on 11-9-2015 by aga]

The Volatile Chemist - 13-9-2015 at 14:47

Is that a reproof of me?

OK, I accept it.
My Mountain Dew resale business at school was one can under breaking even after the first month, but that was just because I drank all my profits