Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Astatine

SupFanat - 15-5-2015 at 15:38

Do you know anything about experiments with astatine?
Yes, I know, it's the second least stable element of the first 101 elements (the least stable is francium, the third least stable is radon). So... the amounts must be really tiny.

neptunium - 15-5-2015 at 20:17

so tiny in fact that all its chemistry is speculative... if you could somehow gather enough Astatine to be visible it would heat up so much and so fast it would almost instantly blow itself apart....

j_sum1 - 15-5-2015 at 20:35

I am led to believe that chemistry can be done on sub-visible quantities and discoveries made. I understand that work has been done to investigate the chemical properties of Bohrium and Seaborgium.
However, this kind of research, while interesting, raises big questions about the meaningfulness of the discoveries made. If there is no possibility of ever accumulating enough of a material for it to ever have any use or detriment then the discoveries are academic rather than pragmatic.
As far as anyone knows, astatine behaves as a halide. The same might not be true of ununseptium sitting below it.

phlogiston - 16-5-2015 at 07:34

One important result of those experiments is that they allow us to test theoretical models of quantum chemistry. So the real result is not any new, useful compound, but rather new, better theories.

Unusual relativistic effects come into play for electrons orbiting these highly charged nuclei and bonding with unusual orbitals.

blogfast25 - 16-5-2015 at 08:57

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
I am led to believe that chemistry can be done on sub-visible quantities and discoveries made. I understand that work has been done to investigate the chemical properties of Bohrium and Seaborgium.
However, this kind of research, while interesting, raises big questions about the meaningfulness of the discoveries made. If there is no possibility of ever accumulating enough of a material for it to ever have any use or detriment then the discoveries are academic rather than pragmatic.


The development of 'ultramicrochemistry' was largely the work of Glenn T. Seaborg's team, in pursuit of the transuranium elements. They developed methods dealing with liquid quantities in the order of 10<sup>-1</sup> to 10<sup>-5</sup> millilitre. They also developed a scale (the 'Salvioni scale') with a sensitivity of 0.02 microgram (10<sup>-3</sup> milligram).
Quote:
[...] then the discoveries are academic rather than pragmatic.


Don't be so bloodymindedly utilitarian! :D




[Edited on 16-5-2015 by blogfast25]

j_sum1 - 16-5-2015 at 15:59

Quote:
Don't be so bloodymindedly utilitarian!
I wasn't trying to be.
I am normally intrigued by the theoretical side of things and appreciate the exploration of quantum chemical effects even though the content flies right over my head.
It seemed to me that the OP was after something of practical consequence.

councilxvb32 - 12-7-2015 at 22:58

first to know it

ave369 - 30-7-2015 at 11:38

Perhaps some futuristic superscience will find a way to prevent radioactive decay, and we well know what astatine looks and smells like... There's a current theory called the "Weakless Universe". In it, it is proven that a universe with nonexistent weak nuclear force (and thus no beta decay) can exist and is not internally contradictory. Atoms, elements and chemistry as we know them exist in this universe, but there is way more stable isotopes, because neutron is stable and putting more of them in any nucleus stabilizes it. So maybe later we shall find a way to simulate a piece of weakless universe in our own... Perhaps do some reverse polarity mumbo jumbo to the Higgs field that gives the W and Z bosons their mass, and make them behave like photons... And ta-dam! Francium in ampoules! Hydroastatic acid! Salts of flerovium! Bibibium! Oh my!


[Edited on 30-7-2015 by ave369]

fluorescence - 1-9-2015 at 00:06

There is some chemistry on astatine in the Gmelin on Astatine but as all above said it's just calculated. But it's full with it's compounds and reactivity what you can't really find on the net. But I don't think that we will ever work with that. Why would we ? We either discover new elements, make a single atom of it to show that it exists and then continue with U an Pu.

careysub - 1-9-2015 at 06:16

Read about the state of astatine chemistry circa 1960:

https://library.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/getfile?rc000018.pdf

Yes, work has been done with its chemistry in the lab.

Having a short half-life means you never have much, but is also means what you have is very easy to detect.

kjpmi - 7-11-2015 at 23:32

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Read about the state of astatine chemistry circa 1960:

https://library.lanl.gov/cgi-bin/getfile?rc000018.pdf

Yes, work has been done with its chemistry in the lab.

Having a short half-life means you never have much, but is also means what you have is very easy to detect.



Thanks for the pdf. Great read!