Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Coming out to your chemistry teacher as a home chemist

Coming out to your chemistry teacher as a home chemist

Cou - 17-2-2015 at 15:07

Has anyone here had experiences with telling your high school chemistry teacher that you do chemistry experiments at home? Last semester I had a 99 in Pre-AP chemistry, and so far this semester I've made a 100 on every single quiz and test. And the teacher know I actually have interest in chemistry, and that I'm not just some asian who only cares about grades, memorizes for the test and not to learn, unlike most of the other high-grade-makers in that class (I'm pretty much the only one in the entire class who shows interest in chemistry, everyone else is bored as **** in there). Having a high grade in chemistry means you're more likely to be seen as responsible, and not a kewl.

Might wait next year for IB chemistry, but I want the teachers to know that I'm interested in chemistry, maybe they'll give me the chance to order rare stuff with my own money from flinn sci or sigma aldrich, through the school? Or make bromine in the fume hood? I live in Texas and most chemical operations are impossible to do at home because of the glassware law; we're restricted to only doing what's possible with pickle jars. But my school has the license for professional glassware so I could do stuff that's not possible at home.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Cou]

Molecular Manipulations - 17-2-2015 at 15:37

Ignoring the suggestive title, yes I have.
Since you didn't say what the point of this thread is, I'll assume you are asking how to "come out", as you so elegantly put it. The easiest way is to grow a pair and just tell him/her. What could happen? As long as you don't admit to doing any illegal synthesis or using "real glassware", the only thing that could happen is him/her respect you more.
As for getting any favors, don't count on it, but it's worth asking for sure.
I live in TX as well, and I've bought/used all sorts of glassware, just don't do anything stupid to get cops on your ass. If you don't drop shit, you won't attract flies.

Metacelsus - 17-2-2015 at 15:41

If you trust them, it can be worthwhile. Personally, I didn't take any chemistry classes in high school, as I had tested out of them (lucky for me, going to a school that let me take organic chemistry at a local university instead). However, I still interacted a lot with the chemistry teachers, and they more or less knew what I was doing at home. They didn't provide any material help, but they did provide advice, which was occasionally useful.

Regarding the AP chemistry exam: it's ridiculously easy, if you know anything at all about chemistry. You might need to do a bit of studying, but I'm sure you could easily get a 5 without taking the AP class. You don't even need to know any math beyond quadratic equations and basic logarithms. I'm not as familiar with the IB program, though, but I suspect it's the same.

Brain&Force - 17-2-2015 at 15:45

Protip: tell your teacher you want to do research. Have a goal in mind. Try entering a science fair.

My chemistry teacher was part of a "circle of moms" and all were really concerned about safety. She knew I did home chemistry and was okay with it but wouldn't let me do anything in the stockroom.

At a different high school I did a science fair project with a chem teacher who loves amateur chemistry and was totally cool with me using everything in the stockroom - he even bought me terbium for the science fair!

Lol about the Asian grades thing...I went to school in an Asian neighborhood and there were plenty of tiger moms.

My problem? I'm half Persian and half Mexican - i.e. half terrorist bomb maker, half cartel running drug maker.

Cou - 17-2-2015 at 15:47

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

Protip: tell your teacher you want to do research. Have a goal in mind. Try entering a science fair.

My chemistry teacher was part of a "circle of moms" and all were really concerned about safety. She knew I did home chemistry and was okay with it but wouldn't let me do anything in the stockroom.

At a different high school I did a science fair project with a chem teacher who loves amateur chemistry and was totally cool with me using everything in the stockroom - he even bought me terbium for the science fair!

Lol about the Asian grades thing...I went to school in an Asian neighborhood and there were plenty of tiger moms.

My problem? I'm half Persian and half Mexican - i.e. half terrorist bomb maker, half cartel running drug maker.

Lol I'm half Persian and half European American. So half terrorist bomb maker, half meth cook. Chemistry is one of the few areas where everyone is equally prejudged, discriminated.

[Edited on 17-2-2015 by Cou]

Polverone - 17-2-2015 at 15:50

I was lucky in that my high school chemistry teacher was extremely enthusiastic about chemistry. Her nephew attended the same school and had a garage lab like I did. She let us use the school lab after school while she graded papers. She also let us take home old chemicals from the stock room that were to be discarded. Under her supervision we picked and performed a series of chemical demos for the parents' open house night at school. The school principal was also very supportive. She had a degree in physics and had run an after-school pyrotechnics club in the 1970s. She looked into reviving that when I was in high school, in the 1990s, but it looked like insurance/liability issues would have been crippling.

By contrast, when I talked about home chemistry with a professor of mine as an undergraduate she was fairly alarmed over possible safety risks. It came up one day when we were using chlorine to liberate iodine from KI into dichloromethane, and I mentioned that I had done the same thing at home, minus the spectrophotometry.

Metacelsus - 17-2-2015 at 17:48

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

Have a goal in mind. Try entering a science fair.

Yes, science fairs are generally good, if you can deal with the paperwork involved. In my region, it's pretty onerous, but I guess it's better than having kids get hurt.

Texium - 17-2-2015 at 19:45

Don't fret Cou, they don't really enforce the Texas glassware law. Get whatever sort of glassware you want; you should be fine. I used to get all worked up about that stuff, but eventually I realized that if you just ignore it as the nonsense that it is, it's not a big deal, and it's likely that if you were "caught," the police wouldn't want to go through the trouble of filling out the paperwork over you. It exists primarily as a means of making it easier to lay charges on actual cooks.

As for the teacher thing, my chemistry teacher has known that I've been doing home chemistry for the past year, and she's cool with it. She's even given me a couple little things here and there. Any decent teacher should be happy to know that one of their students is interested enough in the subject that they teach to want to pursue it actively outside of school. Just tell them, and relax. You don't need to feel like you're leading some sort of double life.

Argentum - 18-2-2015 at 14:56

My chemistry teacher actually introduced me to chemistry outside the classroom. He asked me if I could participate in a science fair, and I accepted. My partner and I chose luminescence as the topic we were going to talk about. There I learnt how colorful and surprising chemistry was. Now I always tell him what I do, he gives me advice and some other stuff to try too. He even lends me school glassware

and gifted me my first essay tube

Despite this he is the best teacher at school... he always find how to make the class interactive and even funny. Well, this is something easy with science in general, but comparing it with my physics teacher... He really knows how ruin something as interesting as physics.

Anyway, repeating what was already said, having an objective in mind and showing REAL interest in the subject will definitely help you "coming out"

MrHomeScientist - 25-2-2015 at 07:37

I'd just let it come up naturally in conversation, though I can understand that a 'normal' conversation might be hard to strike up with your teacher. Like Polverone's example, where they were doing a reaction in class and he mentioned he's also done that at home. From there you can talk about your interest freely. If you have a blog or YouTube channel, direct them to that so they can see what you've done. I'd recommend against just going up after class one day and 'outing' yourself (kind of a weird way to put that, but I'll go with it). Mention your hobby in the context of something you learned that day, like 'oh we made iodine today, I've done that a different way before at home.'

People shouldn't be afraid to show off their hobby, and it's a shame that most people nowadays think of chemistry as a scary thing. My attitude is that as long as you aren't doing anything overly dangerous or illegal, there's no reason to hide what you do. I'm actively trying to spread that word, through my YouTube channel and local outreach activities, that chemistry is a good thing and can be fun and safe as long as you go about it smartly.

elementcollector1 - 25-2-2015 at 07:54

I actually made good friends with all my chem teachers once I brought up the subject - they were glad to know I was so interested in their subject.

Hawkguy - 25-2-2015 at 09:00

Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1

I actually made good friends with all my chem teachers once I brought up the subject - they were glad to know I was so interested in their subject.

That's how it should be. Some people get a bit unnerved when the idea of home chemistry comes up, but usually if it comes off the right way its all good. As long as you don't touch on any of the usual trigger words when talking about it -> drugs acid bomb firework illegal explosive fire dangerous, etc.

j_sum1 - 25-2-2015 at 17:09

Speaking as a school science teacher -- I am delighted when students are sufficiently enthusiastic about a subject to pursue it on their own. I would make enquiries and counsel them about safety however. And I would consider it part of my duty of care to inform my principal and/or contact parents if I suspected any activities that were likely to endanger the student.

Reminds me of a story a colleague told me years ago. he had a young (clueless) kid who had procured some ammonium nitrate and approached him at school with questions on how to make explosives. The teacher told him that it needed to be sun-cured and crystallised to be effective. He told him to spread it out in a thin layer on some concrete, spray it with water from the hose, let it dry on a hot day and then sweep up the crystals. End of that experiment. But good looking grass beside the path a week or so later.

NitratedKittens - 12-1-2017 at 11:29

I recently told my A Level Chem teacher I had a home lab (It came up because I told him a had accidently broke a mercury thermometer, and had cleaned it up, but had no idea what to do with the mercury) and his first response was you really shouldn't be playing with that sort of thing at home, he then asked/made sure that my parents knew and that I was always supervised. He then repeated that I should always be supervised. I said I was always supervised. I never do an experiment without anyone else in the house, and for larger/more dangerous experiments I get a chemist friend of the family to help/supervise.

[Edited on 12-1-2017 by NitratedKittens]

Maroboduus - 12-1-2017 at 12:38

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

Don't fret Cou, they don't really enforce the Texas glassware law. Get whatever sort of glassware you want; you should be fine. I used to get all worked up about that stuff, but eventually I realized that if you just ignore it as the nonsense that it is, it's not a big deal, and it's likely that if you were "caught," the police wouldn't want to go through the trouble of filling out the paperwork over you. It exists primarily as a means of making it easier to lay charges on actual cooks.
.

Unless the cop ISN'T too lazy to write you up. (But ALL cops are lazy, so you're safe, right?)

Unless the cop is an asshole(but no cop is EVER an asshole, so you're safe, right?)

Unless the local authorities Want a few busts in the news as a message to make people take the law seriously. A 'real' cook obviously does not send that message, since you're still breaking the law and consider yourself safe.
(But local prosecutors NEVER try to send a message to lawbreakers by busting a few in a high profile way, right?)

Unless Some DA, or other official is worried about his re-election and decides that busting a few dozen labs before election day might help. (But a DA would NEVER try to burnish his image by busting lawbreakers, right?)

The truth is, If you're ignoring the law, you're a criminal, and completely at the mercy of the authorities if you get caught.

You're PROBABLY right about not getting busted and sent off to some cozy Texas jail, or state prison( I don't recall if this is a potential felony). However before you decide PROBABLY is good enough you should consider just how such a conviction would change your life.

In my opinion, you are FAR too trusting, zts16. And too vocal about it as well. I actually hope this works out for you, and all the others you advise to act in a similar way, but I think you're making a BIG mistake. And that you're advising others to make the same mistake as well.

Sorry for the off topic post, Cou, but I needed to say this to zts16 for my own peace of mind.

I dunno, maybe this post should be split off.
Or deleted.
I'm not particularly interested in starting a debate about this, but I do feel a need to say what I just said.

Saying it ONCE, because zts16 is certainly thoughtful enough and sane enough to really hear what I'm saying if I say it once.

Even if he doesn't agree with it, or change his practices because of what I've said.

DraconicAcid - 12-1-2017 at 12:47

I had one student ask if he could take some alum home to try to grow crystals. Since the other class had made a huge batch of it, I gave him a bunch. Harmless.

Texium - 12-1-2017 at 13:54

@Maroboduus: Perhaps you're right, and my attitude is irresponsible and cavalier. Maybe I'm a naive young person who hasn't yet become jaded enough by how crappy and unfair the world can be sometimes.

I try to remain optimistic though, as the odds are very slim, first of all, that I would even be investigated, and second of all, that it would amount to any more than a visit. If I got visited by law enforcement, I would be very polite and forthcoming. I've been keeping a detailed lab notebook for almost a year now and have loose leaf notes of earlier experiments somewhere as well if it was necessary to dig those up. My YouTube channel and blog serve as additional documentation of recent experiments. I think that all of that documentation as well as the fact that I am a chemistry major and own many preparative chemistry textbooks that cover a wide range of topics makes it pretty clear that I am genuinely interested in chemistry for chemistry's sake.

I haven't thought too much about what would happen if it went any farther than that. Perhaps my glassware would be confiscated. That would really suck, but it wouldn't be the end of the world. If further legal action was to be taken against me, I'd have multiple character witnesses who would probably willing to speak for me, from friends and family members to chemistry professors and former teachers. Hopefully that would be enough to put me in the clear. When it comes down to that though, the likelihood of getting to that point is minuscule.

You are certainly right about one thing though: I shouldn't have been encouraging other Texans like Cou to do the same. It's not my place to do that. I will continue to do as I have always done, but it's up to every individual to decide how far they are willing to bend the law.

JJay - 12-1-2017 at 15:04

People know I am into chemistry. While my degree isn't in chemistry, I've been invited to speak to municipal boards and commissions on public safety topics and recently was invited to speak on water fluoridation to a neighborhood board halfway across the city (I declined). I know the governor, the heads of the local unions, most of the state legislature, a lot of lobbyists, the city council, etc.

Not everyone is ok with the idea of home chemistry. Some people think it's simply fantastic that you are a chemistry hobbyist; others will assume that you are making drugs or bombs and that you are likely to poison your neighbors and destroy property. I think every chemistry instructor I have ever had has been ok with the idea except for one, who flat out asked me if I was making some designer drugs in my dorm room. I thought that was a pretty rude question at the time and stopped showing up for his office hours.

I am careful to observe all laws relating to chemistry, even ones that I know I can easily get away with breaking. In Texas, enforcement of the anti-glassware law is at the whim of the governor, or his designees. If you don't mind it if your freedom is at the whim of some arbitrary authority, go ahead and break it. But realize that if you do, you're giving away power.

Personally, I'd rather make my own decisions on what I do and say. If I want to campaign to legalize fireworks or write a letter to the paper complaining that the local mayor is a smelly nincompoop, I don't want the cops showing up at my door demanding that I turn over my lab due to a technicality.

Talk with your teacher and try to figure out where he stands on the subject of home chemistry before actually broaching the topic. If he's definitely anti-, there's no reason to discuss it. If he's in favor of the idea, maybe you can collaborate on some things.

Maroboduus - 12-1-2017 at 18:58

Quote: Originally posted by JJay

In Texas, enforcement of the anti-glassware law is at the whim of the governor, or his designees. If you don't mind it if your freedom is at the whim of some arbitrary authority, go ahead and break it. But realize that if you do, you're giving away power.

Personally, I'd rather make my own decisions on what I do and say. If I want to campaign to legalize fireworks or write a letter to the paper complaining that the local mayor is a smelly nincompoop, I don't want the cops showing up at my door demanding that I turn over my lab due to a technicality.

Well said and to the point.

Texium - 12-1-2017 at 19:57

I have no desire to be active in local politics at this time, so I think that point is irrelevant to me. Since I don't give the local government any grief, I shouldn't expect them to have any negative predispositions towards me. However, as I stated, I'm comfortable with my actions in my present circumstances, though it doesn't necessarily mean that I would disagree with you if I was someone with a different attitude in a different situation.

AJKOER - 26-1-2017 at 05:54

Chemistry has been discontinued in a local high school near me.

A symbol of the decline of science in America?

The dis-education of the citizenry is possibly more problematic as they, the scientifically ignorant, are your potential jury!

Confessing to mixing HYDROGEN with OXYGEN under such conditions could get you life in prison!

I have served many times on jury duty, and believe me, ignorance, bias and the desire to get home, are deciding factors.

[Edited on 26-1-2017 by AJKOER]

Chlorine - 26-1-2017 at 06:59

I recently told my Hon chem teacher about my hobby. A bit awkward at first but she was pretty cool, even helped review an upcoming synth I was preparing for.

NEMO-Chemistry - 15-2-2017 at 19:36

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I have no desire to be active in local politics at this time, so I think that point is irrelevant to me. Since I don't give the local government any grief, I shouldn't expect them to have any negative predispositions towards me. However, as I stated, I'm comfortable with my actions in my present circumstances, though it doesn't necessarily mean that I would disagree with you if I was someone with a different attitude in a different situation.

I am UK so this might not apply. If you were in court, it dosnt take a genius to work out what you personally do. You are a mod on a science site, you have god knows how many posts condemning drug making, and god knows how many helping people.

Not being funny but the net is littered with the help you give, I think you also taught? for a bit (homework and stuff?).

I would think it would be pretty hard to paint you a terrorist, border line insane to suggest your a druggie. So maybe thats the answer, do what ZTS16 has done, although its a hobby he does it as a professional (if that makes sense).

Cant be too many sub million dollar druggies with a fume hood, can there? Ironically if the police left most the cooks alone, Darwin would clean most up pretty quickly.

oh and sorry if it reads like smoke blowing, it wasnt intended that way.

theAngryLittleBunny - 8-3-2017 at 04:17

I think bringing something to school, like for instance a weird element and showing it to the teacher any other people is a really good way to start this. I for instance once took a piece of osmium with me to school. It is a blue metal, and the densest chemical material known to mankind, so everyone is like O.o when they feel how heavy it is.
Also, seeing an actual element is always kinda fascinating, even to people who don't know that much about chemistry, because I mean everyone knows the periodic table, right?

Daffodile - 8-3-2017 at 13:19

Idk I showed him some of my writeups, with pics, but he got pretty uptight about it, since it involved Hydrogen or Stilbene or something. Also people make bad jokes after they find out.

Texium - 8-3-2017 at 15:52

Quote: Originally posted by theAngryLittleBunny

I think bringing something to school, like for instance a weird element and showing it to the teacher any other people is a really good way to start this. I for instance once took a piece of osmium with me to school. It is a blue metal, and the densest chemical material known to mankind, so everyone is like O.o when they feel how heavy it is.
Also, seeing an actual element is always kinda fascinating, even to people who don't know that much about chemistry, because I mean everyone knows the periodic table, right?

How much did you have to pay for a chunk of osmium big enough to appreciate the density?

MrHomeScientist - 9-3-2017 at 07:25

I bought mine a while back from rgbco on eBay. They currently have a 5g pellet for $185: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Osmium-metal-solid-5g-pellet/3914080...

My 5g piece is very small but very oddly, noticeably heavy. The blueish cast is very unique too. Well worth it!