Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Where is it legal to manufactur substances and precursors how can I be legal?

Where is it legal to manufactur substances and precursors how can I be legal?

Yttrium2 - 15-2-2015 at 11:33

Saudi Arabia beheads traffickers and sorcerers so it's not the best place.
What is a sorcerer?

Is there a legal place on earth to go? I feel that my own country should be enough, as I sovereign citizen I should be able to do what I please so long as I'm not hurting others

Unless I'm military or police, then it's okay? How can we follow the Ten Commandments, if someone goes on a shooting spree, someone has to take them down with lethal force right? How is killing justified when it goes against the Ten Commandments, are the meaningless? And if they do mean someone thing, how do we go about stopping people instantly without violating the law(Ten Commandments)
Killing in the bible goes against the Ten Commandments, how is it justified?

Are substances legal in anartica, if. If not where! Does UN overrule the sovereignty of every nation, and individual?

Is all that's required a DEA license? Are there alternatives?

How can I get a controlled substance license and be legitimate in my own country? I feel I have to fall off the planet entirely, but there should be a way to be sanctified

I really hope that I can be free and sanctified please help
Edit I am sanctified, just need to get better at math, Lewis structures, and Make it through college

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by Yttrium2]

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by Yttrium2]

Yttrium2 - 15-2-2015 at 11:50

The DEA has chemists that make all kinds of things, I want to do that too
I feel very sanctified being brought up with good parents, I've seen the problems associated with drugs first hand

my dad and grandma died on the same day, I've also seen the damages that dieing causes, years of chemotherapy, radiation and agony. I feel I should be qualified, if not me then who is? I'd really like to know.

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by Yttrium2]

[Edited on 15-2-2015 by Yttrium2]

WGTR - 15-2-2015 at 13:22

Ok. From the last couple of posts, I have gleaned one basic question: How is it possible to handle controlled substances legally?

I don't know what country you are located in, so that determines a lot about what laws are applicable. Getting licensed, obviously, is the way to go. I can handle certain chemicals that would be otherwise restricted because this duty is part of my job. Getting an education and a relevant job can open doors to some really exciting work.

Varmint - 15-2-2015 at 13:59

On the bible, you are slightly confused.

There is a difference between murder (killing for spite, hatred, to gain wealth or possession (same thing), killing to protect yourself or others is "sanctioned".

The commandment at one time was purported to have read: "Though shalt not commit the sin of murder". As with most thing rewritten over time, the original meaning gets lost in "simplified translation". If I thought for a second my God would smite me for protecting myself or my family (or even an innocent stranger for that matter), I would choose to stop believing.

Chemosynthesis - 15-2-2015 at 18:18

Trolling? This has to be trolling. Bravo. Why the effects of drugs have any impact on your desire to make them is a dead giveaway, in my opinion. If you weren't interested in use or distribution, why bring illicit drug use's societal impact into the discussion, or falsely equate the supervised treatments of pan-cancer with both disease and pure synthesis? Huge, faulty reasoning there which you are realistically not qualified to assess given your education. Bringing religion into it, on a science forum, is another giveaway, superficial translations (oh the English majors who have argued on translational authorship!) notwithstanding.

Part of growing up is realizing the government as an entity doesn't care what you as an individual want. There is no way around this. I don't care if you "feel qualified" if you admit not knowing math, Lewis structures, or even have a college degree, most European countries and the U.S./Canada/Aus/NZ will not find you qualified. How on earth would you expect to get a viable experimental protocol approved? If you conflate chemotherapy and cancer with controlled substances, and are not trolling, you clearly are outside any area of education on the subject. On the synthesis side alone there is a huge regulatory difference (OSHA and EPA in the USA as well as state agencies) between a hobby lab and a business lab before you can even dream of making controlled or restricted chemicals.

If you want to know more you need to contact the DEA if that is who regulates you. Your paperwork will be specific to you desire (Form 222, 224, 225, 357, 363, 486, 488 and 510 may all initially be applicable depending on your intention.) Bureaucracy is not fun. The only way around corresponding regulations of other countries is to go somewhere a) without regulations on chemicals and b) not in the 189-or-so UN INCB parties. Anything else is inviting a risk of some kind, legally. As for UN vs. party state, that gets into international lawyers. Being right morally or factually doesn't necessarily matter in court.

Unless you have an actual business lab and an education that meets review, no drugs or precursors will legally be produced. You want to do any of that legally without a degree or with a bachelors and no serious research career as a PI with your own lab, go work for someone. Get co-signed on a form or work under a person's permit. That is how radiation permits work in labs, drug permits, etc. it is essentially how pharmacist technicians work under a pharmacist, or a PA or most nurses work under a physician, or some pharmacist operate a "partnered practice."

Yttrium2 - 15-2-2015 at 20:19

Not trolling, looking for answers to several issues. I'm serious, I want to be a legitimate chemist. I have a seasoned background.

Falsely equate pan cancer... What?...

Explain how my reasoning is faulty?
Why the effects of drugs have any desire on my effect to make them? What are you saying? That I'm looking to get high? No, although I do need to get me Dexedrine back

I believe the government does care, I know it

I was trying to ask several questions at once, I'm not trying to confuse you, please don't jump to any conclusions, I do have a good heart

I want to have a diverse understanding of synthesis, not a limited understanding.

I brought several issues into the discussion to make the point that I know where they are coming from, I've been through a lot, have a good understanding, yet I still have much schooling to do.

Did I say I was interested in use or distribution? I don't think so, though I'm interested in covert networks, how things get from a to b to c without regulation, it is scary
There are crazy people out there

Please restate your first paragraph, it threw me for a loop. Because of my diverse background and questions I feel your making assumptions
Not seeing faulty reason

Had questions on government ie who governs the government/legality
Bible, (sorry not really apart of the logical flow of my other questions)

You really lost me
I'm being sincere, I want to do good. I want to help people. Please reword your first paragraph so I can understand what it is that you mean

Chemosynthesis - 15-2-2015 at 22:32

Sorry if I jumped to conclusions about trolling. I think part of the issue is you are brining a lot of different points together which I don't see as relevant to your premise, and not answering where you live or what you want to make. If you just want to make or order listed reagents and precursors with numerous synthetic uses, that is pretty common. Just do well in school, finish your degree, and work in a lab. You might use listed reagents in this capacity as an entry level technician or chemist. If you want to have more autonomy over what experiments get done, education, experience, funding, and luck play a role. That is really about it. You could stop reading right here and have the gist of it, from my perspective. You seem to have plenty of interest and emotion which could drive you into any number of productive scientific jobs and contribute to any field you want, or even those you wouldn't expect.

What specific bureaucratic loopholes you need to jump through may be different than the ones that annoy me because I don't know every regulation here, much less where you even are (another reason I suspected trolling) nor do I know what specifically you wish to make (it matters). The easiest way to make inroads is to gain employment with a company or agency that already has the procedures down.

Since you mention DEA, I will talk a little on the U.S. the government does not care about individuals. The government is just a system incapable of emotion and cannot care for anyone emotionally. Plenty of people in the government do care, and that motivates some public and private sector scientists to make different developments, but they are not the bureaucratic system itself. This is my perspective from functioning in this system for both public and private works, sometimes ostensibly charitably.

Evidence the government does not care about the individual: Numerous (including SCOTUS) decisions have made clear that police and EMS do not need to respond to an individual's plight so long as general public good is served. Examples are Castle Rock v. Gonzales and Warren v. District of Columbia.

As far as being sanctified or qualified... I would not make such points. You really don't yet understand what qualified is, hence your asking. This varies depending on what you want to make or use, and paperwork can differ or require multiple times over replications, depending on listing or scheduling.

When you equate all types of cancers regardless of etiologies, pathological progression, treatment paradigms, and patient outcomes... that makes you look a bit ignorant to me. I don't mean that as an insult since these are advanced and specialized topics, but I think the bigger issue is that they are unrelated to synthetic chemistry, and best left unmentioned for now. You may learn about them in some depth if you decide to be a pharmaceutical or medicinal chemist, become a pharmacologist, toxicologist, oncologist, etc. but it is important to note two things: medicine is interdisciplinary, requiring more than one specialist; and you can only do/learn so many things professionally. If you want to synthesize a pharmaceutical, that will be your job. Even if it just an internship or rotation, synthesis is synthesis and clinical work is clinical. Very seldom does anyone ever manage to do both essentially at once. You usually choose one, learn your job, and may have an opportunity to transition with more schooling such as a graduate degree, post doc, fellowship, etc.
You will likely notice this same compartmentalization in chemistry itself when you ask a physical chemist to name an organic compound according IUPAC nomenclature, or an organic chemist to name some transition metal ligand. People just cannot tend to specialize in more than one thing at a time, and with age, sometimes you just forget how to do things. Relearning might be easier than the initial studying, but people get really engrained in their specific duties because our collective knowledge base is just too broad for any one person to know.

turd - 16-2-2015 at 01:23

Quote: Originally posted by Varmint

If I thought for a second my God would smite me for protecting myself or my family (or even an innocent stranger for that matter), I would choose to stop believing.

Good parody.

Killing homosexuals, stoning women, smashing babies against stones - no problem for a devout Christian. But not allowed to kill a bad guy, now that is a deal-breaker! Gotta love those peaceful religions...

Chemosynthesis - 16-2-2015 at 01:51

Quote: Originally posted by turd

Good parody.

I'm not sure how exactly is this related to the original poster's question or Varmint's textual parsing (or even that he is Christian rather than Jewish), but you're predominantly discussing Jewish and Muslim historical practice, not Christian, from what I understand. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoning#In_history

In fact, even Grand Inquisition torture was done largely at the hands of the state, rather than their churches, and capital punishment was always carried out by the states rather than churches, though there were ecclesiastical tribunals and the Catholic church was very much a state itself at the time (the pope having a literal crown in addition to his mitre, and the Vatican city being even more autonomous than it is today).

Regardless, I think much discussion of religion of biology drifts a bit from what the original poster wanted, as more specificity on topic is probably better than throwing a bunch of random subjects to the wall in attempts to disparage entire groups of individuals over something inherently not in a scientific arena. With respect, I think it's a bit unfortunate it was brought up in the original post at all.

But to try to keep this from drifting off into Whimsy, where I never venture, WGTR had the most succinct post.

[Edited on 16-2-2015 by Chemosynthesis]