Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Chuck schumer new law on explosives

vinny1892 - 19-1-2015 at 17:23

How is a chemist supposed to get chemicals now that this dumb@#$ wants to pass a law allowing ATF guys to listen in on terrorists..... how do they determine one from a terrorist or a home chemist. please help me. thanks id hate to end up in jail for experimenting with chemicals. ;) ps just google chuck schumers new law proposal on explosives. and you will see what i mean

WGTR - 19-1-2015 at 21:18

Thank you for bringing this topic to my attention. I may post some other thoughts later, after I finish throwing up.

Loptr - 19-1-2015 at 21:28

Link?

I found a news article, but not sure if its it. Looks like the EU regs might be coming to the USA soon.



[Edited on 20-1-2015 by Loptr]

Bert - 19-1-2015 at 21:35

http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/schumer-pushes-close-loo...

Loptr - 19-1-2015 at 21:43

Yeah, that's the article I found.

Any more details?

careysub - 19-1-2015 at 21:59

Here's a suggested topic to continue with on this thread - what chemicals should we be stocking up on?

There are most likely to go after the oxidizers first I imagine.

Are any of the pyro aluminums good for use as chemical reagents?

Bert - 19-1-2015 at 22:07

In the USA, it is NOT now illegal at the federal level to make an explosive substance. It IS illegal to store (even overnight, or for any time outside of your direct observation), transport, distribute or even give away any explosives without a federal license.

Someone told Chuck.

Chuck knows that this must be changed. Or that the widely distributed news of his striving to change that will bring him votes?

Historically, BATFE was a taxation and revenue generating bureau- Which did not care to become involved with every 12 year old who makes 10 grams of black powder, a bit of acetone peroxide or a few drops of nitroglycerin. They DO care about idiots storing explosives improperly, selling or otherwise distributing explosives.

DOT cares a GREAT DEAL about public safety in relation to explosives in transport, who moves explosives in public, and how explosives actually are moved- Markings, communicating the hazard, training and practices of personnel and companies involved...

And your state, county and city all have laws about how, where and by whom explosives can be used- From sparklers to blasting agents.

Chuck will not be satisfied with the taste of this regulatory mixture until he has pissed in it himself.

Loptr - 20-1-2015 at 08:48

Quote: Originally posted by careysub  
Here's a suggested topic to continue with on this thread - what chemicals should we be stocking up on?

There are most likely to go after the oxidizers first I imagine.

Are any of the pyro aluminums good for use as chemical reagents?


I think it depends on what form you are talking about. For instance, there is one called Indian Blackhead (or something like that), which from my understanding, is produced using a carbon-coating method where they apply a piece of paper to an aluminum sheet, apply a heat source and carbonize the paper, and then mill the sheet until it is a fine powder. The presence of this carbon coating keeps the aluminum from being easily oxidized by air, and makes it more reactive, and not to mention it is typically around 3-8 micrometers in diameter. This might have potential in chemistry if the coating and the byproducts of the original adhesive don't interfere with your reaction.

There are also a few other metals that typically come in pyro grade aluminums, including vanadium, etc. I know some of them are Alcoa (101) and Eckart (5413) products, so whatever that contains.

[Edited on 20-1-2015 by Loptr]

[Edited on 20-1-2015 by Loptr]

Darkstar - 20-1-2015 at 14:55

This kind of shit just pisses me off, and I'm not even into energetics...
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/schumer-pushes-close-loo...


First of all, what is a "wannabe terrorist?" A terrorist is a terrorist. Some kid interested in the chemistry and properties of energetics, who synthesizes and detonates only small quantities of them in a relatively safe and responsible manner, is neither a terrorist nor a "wannabe terrorist." He's simply some kid who likes things that go boom. Secondly, REAL terrorists, you know, like those responsible for the Oklahoma City and Boston marathon bombings, aren't going to give a rat's ass about the legality of their homemade explosives. These people are planning to MURDER PEOPLE, for fuck's sake.

I get that the idea behind making homemade explosives illegal is mostly to allow law enforcement, in the event that they stumble upon someone manufacturing explosives who actually DOES intend to use them to harm others, to stop that person by closing this "loophole" that would otherwise hinder any sort of investigation, as no actual crime has been committed at that point without proof of intent; however, this will likely prove to be yet another extremely ineffective method of preventing future terrorist attacks, and only serves as yet another reminder that Big Brother considers anyone and everyone, including its own law-abiding citizens, a terrorist by default.
Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
In the USA, it is NOT now illegal at the federal level to make an explosive substance.


The article mentions "bomb" and "explosive device" a few times as well. Aren't explosive substances and actual explosive devices/bombs two different things, at least from a legal standpoint? Surely the nitroglycerine in grandma's heart medication isn't in the same league as the nitroglycerine in a stick of dynamite that has a blasting cap in it. Is this new law intended to make it illegal to manufacture explosives all together, including both explosive devices AND explosive substances? What about someone synthesizing a substance that has the ability to detonate, like most nitro compounds/nitrate esters and organic peroxides do, but isn't intending to use it for said explosive properties? For example, would benzoyl peroxide for use as a radical initiator suddenly be considered an illegal explosive under this new law? Should everyone throw out their acne cream, too?

Anyway, as I said, energetics aren't really my area of expertise, so I'm not really all that familiar with the law in that respect.

Bert - 20-1-2015 at 15:11

There is nothing available online except Chuck's blipvert about how he will "save the children" by closing this egregious loop hole which allows just ANYONE to make explosives at home.

Little does Chuck know- There are a crap ton of US citizens who make explosives and assemble explosive devices at home, in a "not in commerce" setting. And they are some seriously intelligent and resourceful folks, by and large. Exactly the kind of people you should not summarily shift to the "dark side" by legislative or regulatory diktat

Hey, Chuck! Why don't you PO every ammo reloader, black powder shooter and serious amateur rocketry hobbyist along with nearly every single Pyrotechnics Guild International member in USA in one stroke? THAT will be highly productive, and well worth the soccer mom knee jerk TERROISTS! OMG!!! votes you garner...

vinny1892 - 20-1-2015 at 15:37

thats exackly what i mean they didnt give specs on what the law consisted of!!! im glad that ive goten posts on this problem. so what do we do now?

vinny1892 - 20-1-2015 at 15:43

Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
http://m.nydailynews.com/news/crime/schumer-pushes-close-loo...


ya thats one of them i read there were too many to post

The Volatile Chemist - 20-1-2015 at 16:10

“It is shocking to learn that it is not illegal for an individual to build an explosive device at home,” Mr Schumer said while speaking at a recent event in New York. “There’s absolutely no good reason to build an explosive device in one’s home.”
The most uneducated statement yet. This guy would make a great politician. OH WAIT!??!?!?!?!?!?!

I like to joke with friends that I portray my chemistry life as "livin' life on the edge", while in fact it isn't, but if this is passed, then I really will be 'living on the edge'.
I wonder what 'loophole' he's referring to and what his plans are to stop it. Will he take away the right to own anything explosive? He's totally getting paid by the EU...

vinny1892 - 20-1-2015 at 16:25

I hope that this new proposed law doesn't pass or we are in deep doo doo good by all types of black powder, rockets my reloading for my guns my life as I know it....... soon it will be bread and water rations because some asshole will make stupid ppl believe that food makes people fat!!! all because big brother has way too much power! god i feel better to get that out of me.

Darkstar - 20-1-2015 at 21:57

When will these stupid, chemophobic lawmakers finally grow a pair and just admit what we've known was true all along? Just come out and say it already: "We don't like the idea of hobby chemistry and aren't comfortable with you practicing chemistry outside of an academic or professional environment. Unless intending to make drugs and/or explosives, we see very little reason for a person to pursue any sort of chemistry beyond that which is required in the classroom or workplace." Just admit that you're too stupid to understand anything as complicated as chemistry and can't fathom the idea that a person could actually be interested in something like that.

What I can't get my head around is how our government goes on and on about needing to improve our education system and get more kids interested in math and science, only to turn around and make these same kids feel like criminals the second they try to actually use any of that science. Seriously, is that not the most ass-backwards crap you've ever heard? What kind of message does it send when some poor kid's science fair project not only gets him or her suspended from school for bringing a "deadly weapon" on campus, but even results in the police being called?

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
I like to joke with friends that I portray my chemistry life as "livin' life on the edge", while in fact it isn't


Come to Texas and practice hobby chemistry and it will be...

Morkva - 21-1-2015 at 08:22

Frankly, Chuck Schmer does not know about hobbyists. Not one clue you exist passes into his attention, regardless of whether he would care if it did - and he would not be likely to, as the prevailing opinion in these "circles" is that for the prevention of terror and harm to the public, one must crack a few eqqs. You might ask, though, "What kinds of criminals (by definition) and evildoers will the regulation catch, that those existing do not?". The answer is to do everything possible - which is one that cannot be tackled in the allotted time for an interview, soundbite, or quote, and over a matter that to an ordinary citizen is too trivial to warrant.

[Edited on 21-1-2015 by Morkva]

macckone - 21-1-2015 at 09:59

Our best hope on this one is partisanship prevails and the republicans don't allow a democrat to introduce a bill.

The Volatile Chemist - 21-1-2015 at 12:52

Quote: Originally posted by Darkstar  

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
I like to joke with friends that I portray my chemistry life as "livin' life on the edge", while in fact it isn't


Come to Texas and practice hobby chemistry and it will be...

Maybe I will...
No, but it isn't TOO bad of a situation, unless something gets passed. The sad thing is, the bill 'sounds' perfectly legitimate, it'd even fool my AP-US History teacher.
Where's Arkoma when you need him... I hope he's OK.

[Edited on 1-21-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]

vinny1892 - 21-1-2015 at 15:21

ya that is how are goverment works sad to say ass backwards it be like saying here is a piece of paper write me a essay but you cant use a pencil because some one could stab one another....... blablabla cant use a pen either or a computer. thats the thinking of a politic! -_-

gardul - 21-1-2015 at 17:27

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by Darkstar  

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
I like to joke with friends that I portray my chemistry life as "livin' life on the edge", while in fact it isn't


Come to Texas and practice hobby chemistry and it will be...

Maybe I will...
No, but it isn't TOO bad of a situation, unless something gets passed. The sad thing is, the bill 'sounds' perfectly legitimate, it'd even fool my AP-US History teacher.
Where's Arkoma when you need him... I hope he's OK.

[Edited on 1-21-2015 by The Volatile Chemist]



I think I saw him the other day. Not sure if he still resides here in AZ. If it wasn't him, then he has a doppleganger.


back on topic. I'm a little frightened by this if it does pass. Being a republican, know republicans in/out of office they will probably vote with this.

This would harm my hobbies on all fronts and would leave me to play kerbal space program and thats abut it. While I am not into explosives perse, I have been know to make my own black powder for my pistol. I also reload for my handguns and rifles. this is the very reason why I left politics ages ago. It pretty much a game to them. Most really don't care about your rights, as they sit on their ivory tower, they have no need to have black powder so why would they care. Even if they did, they, in their minds are above the law anyway.

Metacelsus - 21-1-2015 at 17:53

Well, Kerbal Space Program isn't so bad.

Anyway, what can we actually do about this, besides just hope it won't pass? I doubt Chuck Schumer will listen to anyone who isn't from New York, but it might be worth it to contact other senators.

gardul - 21-1-2015 at 18:32

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Well, Kerbal Space Program isn't so bad.

Anyway, what can we actually do about this, besides just hope it won't pass? I doubt Chuck Schumer will listen to anyone who isn't from New York, but it might be worth it to contact other senators.


I have some friends in the state level of the senate in MA. Will be contacting them to see if there is anyone they know that we all can get the word out on how insane this is. and hope republicans don't fall into the anti terrorist trap.

franklyn - 21-1-2015 at 20:47

' Terrorists ' will then be forced to make their bombs illegally ? Although monomaniacal, terrorists act rationally. It's irrational monomaniacs like Schumer that are most dangerous. How do we stop them. Either that or consider moving to free country like Russia.

.

roXefeller - 23-1-2015 at 11:23

The russian exchange student in Altoona PA must not have been told that it was legal to build a bomb. He was charged on WMD charges for flash powder. It seems the avenues are already present for the feds to incarcerate a bomb builder. Instead Schumer will use the grandstanding to garner votes for a bill that strips rights away but doesn't actually give LEO's more ability to bring charges, more than they already have. It is a classic tactic. The bill accomplishes nothing of its stated intent. We can only surmise this is true since he hasn't released the text for discussion. Let's hope for partisanship. Gridlock is the best way to slow the onslaught of ineffective laws.

IrC - 23-1-2015 at 12:38

What’s under your kitchen sink? Charles Schumer and the government want to know.

http://www.infowars.com/sen-schumer-sleeper-cells-might-make...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=...

The Volatile Chemist - 23-1-2015 at 13:29

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Well, Kerbal Space Program isn't so bad.

Anyway, what can we actually do about this, besides just hope it won't pass? I doubt Chuck Schumer will listen to anyone who isn't from New York, but it might be worth it to contact other senators.

Yeah. If this passes, I vote a kerbal space program sub-forum be made here on SM.

gardul - 23-1-2015 at 17:08

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist  
Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
Well, Kerbal Space Program isn't so bad.

Anyway, what can we actually do about this, besides just hope it won't pass? I doubt Chuck Schumer will listen to anyone who isn't from New York, but it might be worth it to contact other senators.

Yeah. If this passes, I vote a kerbal space program sub-forum be made here on SM.


I'm voting a sub forum within the sub forurm. Should title it Gard's screw up of the day . Miss placed a decimal while calculating Delta V.... ran out of fuel.... head first into the moon. Jeb some out survived the crash landing. But all that was left what the pod. now he is stuck on the moon :/. The craft was designed to be an orbiter not a lander. Sooo yea... now I have to figure out how I'm going to rescue Jeb.

but back on topic. I havnt heard much more about this. I have tried to keep an eye out for more infomation but nothing comes up and nor does anyone i know. Any one find more details about this?

[Edited on 24-1-2015 by gardul]