Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Wired Magazine has an article about Amateur Chemistry

Quantum - 22-5-2006 at 11:02

I got in the post the latest Wired and it has a good article about amature chemistry - it even quotes Polverone! For some reason I can't find it on the web however.

EbC Title spelling....

[Edited on 30-5-2006 by chemoleo]

Polverone - 22-5-2006 at 18:01

Oh, cool. Yes, I was interviewed for this article, and think (hope) that it may have other information about this site and the members here. It also has information about United Nuclear, right? I was told about a month ago that it would be published in early June, so I wasn't expecting to see it this early. I should be getting some free copies of the print edition, but I was hoping it would be online so I could see it now.

BromicAcid - 22-5-2006 at 18:53

Is this the May issue or the June issue, I'd like to pick it up and see something about sciencemadness in print and that might help. Overall is it a good article?

The_Davster - 22-5-2006 at 20:12

Yeah, I am picking up whichever issue this is in as well. I cannot seem to find it on their website in may's issue.

Hows about a signed copy Polv?:P

Darkblade48 - 23-5-2006 at 10:15

I can't seem to find the article on their website either. Can anyone provide a scan of the article?

The_Davster - 23-5-2006 at 15:27

I thumbed through the current issue at a newstand today. No luck.

[Edited on 23-5-2006 by rogue chemist]

Polverone - 23-5-2006 at 16:35

Sure, rogue chemist, I'll sign an issue for you if you'll sign one for me.

Magpie - 24-5-2006 at 15:12

The article is in the June issue. I think it is well written and very supportive of amateur chemistry.

(It's too bad they couldn't quote Polverone on his feelings about the CSPC. :D)

Organikum - 24-5-2006 at 19:14

I would like to read it albeit Wired has gotten a piece of sold out shit.

I still have a print issue from the 90´s where they state under what made this possible "caffeine, amphetamines and...."

With amounts used. To the gram.
Now that was the days.....

[Edited on 25-5-2006 by Organikum]

The_Davster - 25-5-2006 at 15:18

Twas a good read!
I scanned it.
(on rapidshare because was too big for an attachment)
http://rapidshare.de/files/21390828/wired_amateur_chemistry....

Nerro - 25-5-2006 at 16:00

It's pretty sick and disturbing to see 1984 become reality.

How did that line go again? "And they will cheer their doom"? (It was something along those lines)

Terrorist threat and over protection = brain drain/society of wusses

JustMe - 30-5-2006 at 07:47

It sure isn't the same when I was a backyard chemist 35 years ago... I could buy almost anything. But today, well...

http://wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/chemistry.html



EbC: Merged threads.. .

[Edited on 30-5-2006 by chemoleo]

chemoleo - 30-5-2006 at 08:01

Heh- and sciencemadness is mentioned!!!
On page 2:
Quote:
The increasingly strict regulatory climate has driven a wedge of paranoia between young chemists and their potential mentors. “I don’t tell anyone about what I do at home,” writes one anonymous high schooler on Sciencemadness.org, an online forum for amateur scientists. “A lot of ignorant people at my school will just spread rumors about me … The teacher will hear about them and I will get into legal trouble … I have so much glassware at my house, any excuse will not cut it. So I keep my mouth shut.”

12AX7 - 30-5-2006 at 08:16

Yep, scans of the article were posted a few weeks ago too. More on page 4:

Quote:
. . . self-proclaimed “mad scientists” are creating a research underground on Web sites like Sciencemadness, . . .

One key to working as a DIY chemist, says Matthew Ernst, the 25-year-old host of Sciencemadness, is realizing how many useful chemicals are still available . . .

digaman - 30-5-2006 at 08:42

Thanks for the link to my article in Wired, guys.

Polverone: Please send me your snail mail address and I will send you copies of the magazine. Thanks again for your help!

chemoleo - 30-5-2006 at 08:45

Quote:
'Kids read about the great scientists and their discoveries throughout history, and marvel that people once did these things,” Lazar says. “But they marvel a little too much. Taking chemicals and lab equipment away from kids who love science is like taking crayons and paints away from a kid who may grow up to be an artist.”

Why are kids emphasised so much here? Looking at the number of graduates here, the kids probably make up the minority!


Quote:
To ensure that the tradition of home chemistry survives, self-proclaimed “mad scientists” are creating a research underground on Web sites like Sciencemadness, Readily Available Chemicals, and the International Order of Nitrogen. There, in comfortable anonymity, seasoned experimenters, novices, and connoisseurs of banned molecules share tips on finding alternative sources for chemicals and labware.

Heh- I am a fish is in there as well!
Quote:
Yep, scans of the article were posted a few weeks ago too.
where? I've been away...


Some more:
Quote:
One kid whose interest in science was sparked by the gift of a chemistry set was Don Herbert, who grew up to host a popular TV show in the 1950s called Watch Mr. Wizard. With his eye-popping demonstrations and low-key midwestern manner, Mr. Wizard gave generations of future scientists and teachers the confidence to perform experiments at home.


How old are you again, Mr. Wizard? :P

[Edited on 30-5-2006 by chemoleo]

Mr. Wizard - 30-5-2006 at 09:51

:) I'm not that Mr. Wizard, but I do remember watching him on TV, and I did take the name because him. Let's face it, nobody gets into science because they want to do the dull stuff. You want to see metals melt, see colors where none existed, generate pops , bangs and fizzes, make interesting crystals, and maybe even a little exotic colored flames. You then realize you have to learn something to do it. You develop an interest, and without an interest you won't learn chemistry or any other science. Another factor is the curiosity about why things happen and what makes the universe, and our little part of it world work. Without these incentives our technological world won't advance.

digaman - 30-5-2006 at 10:11

> Why are kids emphasised so much here?

Because one of the main subjects of my article was how home chemistry gets kids interested in science, and how the laws that inhibit home experimentation may be responsible for declining interest in science in later years. But I certainly don't *only* talk about kids in the article.

Thanks for reading.

Darkblade48 - 30-5-2006 at 12:55

Quote:
Originally posted by chemoleo
Quote:
Yep, scans of the article were posted a few weeks ago too.
where? I've been away...


Here's the link, courtesy of rogue chemist

http://rapidshare.de/files/21390828/wired_amateur_chemistry....

digaman - 30-5-2006 at 12:59

You don't have to read the scan anymore...

http://wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/chemistry_pr.html

flyingbanana - 30-5-2006 at 14:59

excellent article!

digaman - 30-5-2006 at 21:44

thanks!

The_Davster - 30-5-2006 at 21:54

It is pretty novel to actually meet (albeit online) the person who wrote such a good article. Keep up the good work! What made you choose to do an article on amateur chemistry? You must have some interest in it(perhaps a closet chemist yourself;)?)

Perhaps some sort of a follow up article sometime?


(But my scan has all the pretty pictures:P)

chromium - 30-5-2006 at 22:17

This article is great! It may even decrease entusiasm of some people who honestly think that they do good by outlawing everything.

woelen - 31-5-2006 at 00:37

Digaman, I also was very pleased to read that article. I also mentioned it already on a dutch chemistry forum (chemieforum.nl) and let's see how they respond. At that place there also are quite some people who think home-chemistry is not good at all (that forum is more directed towards school-kids and students, asking for help with homework, and professionals, working in company/university labs). Your article will spread throughout many forums very soon and I'm sure it does help home-chemistry.

Thanks!

digaman - 31-5-2006 at 08:38

Thanks so much, guys. I appreciate it. And yes, the scan does have the pretty pictures. :)

I was a science geek when I was a kid -- I had chemistry sets, I worshipped the Edmund Scientific catalog, and I collected minerals (I know, all wimpy stuff compared to what you guys do [smile]!) -- so I have a soft spot in my heart for home experimentation and self-education in science, which I believe is our birthright. I am also married to a science teacher.

I really, really appreciate you guys posting the link to other forums. Thanks so much. If you feel comfortable doing so, I would also encourage anyone to write a letter to the editor of Wired about the article. Letters to the editor carry a lot of weight in determining future coverage of similar subjects. The address is rants@wiredmag.com.

Thanks!

Steve

Ramiel - 31-5-2006 at 09:28

"“A lot of schools don’t have chemistry labs anymore,” explains CEF educational coordinator Laurel Brent. “We want to give kids lessons that tie in to their real-world experiences without having them deal with a lot of strange chemicals in bottles that have big long names.”"

And that person calls themselves an educator! I really find that attude repugnant, don't you think?
Anger... Rising...

lordmagnus - 31-5-2006 at 14:46

Yeah, this sucks. Luckily I don't work with chemicals that would show up on the WATCHED list, although I have enough lab equipment to get myself into trouble here in texas, I have all sorts of distillation columns, condensers, glassware, etc.

neutrino - 1-6-2006 at 02:27

>“We want to give kids lessons that tie in to their real-world experiences without having them deal with a lot of strange chemicals in bottles that have big long names.”

Then who will work with those strange chemicals and discover new things? Oh right, the Chinese and the Indians. And politicians still wonder why America is falling behind...

Slashdotted...

panoptic - 1-6-2006 at 10:20

... by a degree of separation, or so.

Here.

DeAdFX - 1-6-2006 at 14:59

Hey guys if we practice green chemistry we can enjoy chemistry while combating against the terrorists. ITS A WIN WIN LOLOL...[/sarcastic post] Sweet jesus who thought of this bullshit. Well I guess if we appease the enviromental terrorists then we don't have to worry about them blowing up an evil corporation. Makes sense.


Quoted from http://pubs.acs.org/subscribe/journals/esthag-w/2002/jul/tec...

Green chemistry can be patriotic, according to a widely publicized new book by the National Research Council, a private nonprofit organization. “If we make fewer toxic products, use milder manufacturing conditions, and produce less toxic waste, we reduce the opportunities for terrorists,” according to Making the Nation Safer: The Role of Science and Technology in Countering Terrorism. Accordingly, the book urges that scientists in government, academia, and industry “strive to identify research directions that could lead to safer, intrinsically secure, economically viable chemical processes and procedures that are valuable for our long-term sustainability.” For more information, go to www.nap.edu/catalog/10415.html?onpi_newsdoc062402.

Organikum - 1-6-2006 at 15:22

Quote:
Originally posted by rogue chemist
It is pretty novel to actually meet (albeit online) the person who wrote such a good article. Keep up the good work! What made you choose to do an article on amateur chemistry? You must have some interest in it(perhaps a closet chemist yourself;)?)

Perhaps some sort of a follow up article sometime?


(But my scan has all the pretty pictures:P)
The article was positive but nothing more, it was not even halfway well researched or the author would have known that aerogels were by no way developed by the NASA for example.
We are so starved that we tend to give applause to the anything whats not directly offending.

/ORG

neutrino - 1-6-2006 at 16:52

The important things are that

1. The article was in a positive tone.
2. The article was read by a large audience.

That second one is rare nowadays in conjunction with the first one. Mostly we talk about the state of chemistry but only a few people read our discussions. A significant number of people is reading this.

chemoleo - 1-6-2006 at 17:07

Who is reading wired? I never heard of it until this article.
Is it a popular magazine in the States?

Similar articles ought to be written here in Europe, where controls are even more stringent.. while yet a disproportionately large number of people pursue such hobbies, in my circles, I know a number of Dads/parents who essentially passed on their hobbies to their kids... I suppose it's a historical thing, because Germany was for some time the forerunner of chemistry, and such experimentation used to be quite a normal thing to do for a clever kid while growing up. So sad that this is becoming increasingly difficult here, all in the name of public safety.
Similar to music I suppose, in Germany, it is common that people play an instrument, and this is not really class-associated... not so in the UK, or US (where it's hard to find people that are able to read music in the common populace). Once again, Germany produced a large number of great composers, so probably this explains why this culture of playing music persists to this day.

The_Davster - 1-6-2006 at 17:33

Yeah wired is a pretty common magazine in the US and in Canada(although to a lesser extent). Although it does get read by more of the technically inclined than by the general populace. I had never read an issue of it until I heard about this article.

Jeez, I am trying to read through the slashdot discussion, what the hell type of board software is that? Rather confusing in my opinion. Links everywhere to the same posts...

Organikum, yes it was positive, the good effects of such an article are not affected by whether or not the author got the inventor of areogels correct.

chromium - 1-6-2006 at 22:40

Quote:

Organikum, yes it was positive, the good effects of such an article are not affected by whether or not the author got the inventor of areogels correct.


Absolutely agree with rogue chemist. This was very good article especially if compared to that bs what is writen to fight against hobby chemistry. Yet that bs works even more for sole reason that its repeated again and again.

[Edited on 2-6-2006 by chromium]

digaman - 2-6-2006 at 04:58

Chemoleo, Wired has over 500,000 subscribers in the United States and Europe, and there are a lot of newsstand sales on top of that. Organikum is quite right that I goofed about the inventor of aerogel -- that's the one outright error that others have pointed out too. Organikum, please do provide pointers to other articles about chemistry in the mainstream press that you believe are truly worthy of your applause; I'd love to read them.

joeflsts - 2-6-2006 at 06:11

This article touches on many issues. Education today isn't about excellence it is about teaching at a level that is acceptable at all levels of comphrension. So essentially for one to "stand-out" they must not participate in public schooling or they run the risk of learning at a sub-standard level. There are exeptions but that is becoming the anolomy and not the norm.

When I was a child I was absorded by chemistry. In fact it was my dream to become a chemist after grade school. In my basement I had a lab that would make some of today's school chemistry labs look like a joke. When I left school and entered the military all that was left behind.

20 years later I find myself, once again, very interested in amateur chemistry. It is a bit easier now that I'm older and able to obtain some items that as child were unreachable. But even as an adult, with all the freedoms that I'm supposed to have, I have to deal with government agencies that feel they need them to protect me.

When you really, and I mean really, examine the issues that we face you begin to realize that in the course of asking our government to protect us, we have given up something that is essential for our ability to experiment... Freedom.

So to be honest the blame rests on our desire to be protected and not recognize that the only person that should hold the ultimate responsbility for individual protection is the individual and not some government agency with a desire to secure the next years budget allocation.

Joe

UniversalSolvent - 2-6-2006 at 16:37

I'm sending a letter to Wired's editor; as a subscriber, I'd like to see this covered more, maybe it'll spread to other publications.

digaman - 2-6-2006 at 18:34

Thanks, Universal. Jon Carroll, a columnist from the <i>San Francisco Chronicle</i>, picked up on the story today, so that's a little more chemistry awareness trickling into the mainstream:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/ar...

I am a fish - 3-6-2006 at 11:05

Quote:
Originally posted by Ramiel
"“A lot of schools don’t have chemistry labs anymore,” explains CEF educational coordinator Laurel Brent. “We want to give kids lessons that tie in to their real-world experiences without having them deal with a lot of strange chemicals in bottles that have big long names.”"

And that person calls themselves an educator! I really find that attude repugnant, don't you think?
Anger... Rising...


It's absolutely disgusting. The whole point of education is to expand people's horizons. Her attitude is also extremely offensive to the children; it's a 21st century equivalent of telling them not to get ideas above their station.

I imagine this fear of "big long names" is also contrary to what the kids want. Young children are naturally drawn to what's hidden, mysterious and beyond the realm of everyday experience. If they're told that everything is made of atoms, they'll want to know what atoms are made out of, and then what protons are made of, and then what quarks are made of, and so on. However, such matters don't "tie in to their real-world experiences", and so they'll be denied this information.

joeflsts - 3-6-2006 at 16:56

Quote:
Originally posted by I am a fish
Quote:
Originally posted by Ramiel
"“A lot of schools don’t have chemistry labs anymore,” explains CEF educational coordinator Laurel Brent. “We want to give kids lessons that tie in to their real-world experiences without having them deal with a lot of strange chemicals in bottles that have big long names.”"

And that person calls themselves an educator! I really find that attude repugnant, don't you think?
Anger... Rising...


It's absolutely disgusting. The whole point of education is to expand people's horizons. Her attitude is also extremely offensive to the children; it's a 21st century equivalent of telling them not to get ideas above their station.

I imagine this fear of "big long names" is also contrary to what the kids want. Young children are naturally drawn to what's hidden, mysterious and beyond the realm of everyday experience. If they're told that everything is made of atoms, they'll want to know what atoms are made out of, and then what protons are made of, and then what quarks are made of, and so on. However, such matters don't "tie in to their real-world experiences", and so they'll be denied this information.


My wife is still fuming over her comment. I can't imagine how this person was determined fit to participate in education.

Joe

leu - 3-6-2006 at 18:11

Quote:
I can't imagine how this person was determined fit to participate in education.


This person is merely repeating the nanny state party line, otherwise known as Oligarchical Collectivism; which is growing as fast as fear can be induced within the population by the use of mass media :P

[Edited on 4-6-2006 by leu]

HNO3 - 3-6-2006 at 19:11

"scientifically useful compounds as liquid iodine"

Iodine is not liquid, but I liked the article. Great Job!

UniversalSolvent - 4-6-2006 at 07:17

Quote:
Originally posted by HNO3
"scientifically useful compounds as liquid iodine"

Iodine is not liquid, but I liked the article. Great Job!


He probably meant tincture, it's really hard to get in certain areas because of meth production.

digaman - 4-6-2006 at 08:14

Tincture of iodine, which is common in many households (as opposed to solid iodine, which is rare outside of chemistry) is listed on hundreds of meth-watch websites as "liquid iodine," which was the point.

digaman - 4-6-2006 at 08:15

And thanks!

UniversalSolvent - 4-6-2006 at 10:20

Quote:
Originally posted by digaman
And thanks!
No problem.