Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Acetic acid explosive

Lapis_infernalis - 29-3-2006 at 06:32

An explosive witch name is SL 700 be used to build the "Gotthard Tunnel" in the Alps. This explosive is a mix of 98% pure acetic acid, 1% an and 1% of a matrix (I think this stuff is not important).
I dont know anything about the explosive properties but I know that one of the decomposition product is ammonia.
I think tha this "energetic material" is easyer to detonate like ANFO.
As I`ve no anhydrous acetic acid I can`t test this stuff :(

[Bearbeitet am 30-3-2006 von Lapis_infernalis]

chemoleo - 29-3-2006 at 07:17

This is very surprising.
I had a look around, and found one reference:
http://www.tunneltrade.com/eng/3/newse/1032/index.htm
Quote:
South Africans provided the solution
Starting in Sedrun, a South African company experienced in excavating gold mines bored two vertical, 800-metre long accesses to the future tunnel floor. Two shaft lifts are operating vertically and have also taken Yves Bonanomi down into the mountain several hundred times. He arrives in an underground hall that smells of ammonia. "There has just been a blast", Bonanomi explains. 98 per cent of SL 700, an explosive, consist of acetic acid – while one per cent is made up of ammonium nitrate. The remaining one per cent is a matrix foaming up the explosives when they are filled into the drilled holes in order to provide a good contact with the rock.


Surely this can't be true? :o

DeAdFX - 29-3-2006 at 09:31

Prehaps the foaming agent is a hydrogen peroxide? Thats the only way I could think this thing would blow up.

12AX7 - 29-3-2006 at 10:29

Not peracetic acid..?

Tim

Lapis_infernalis - 29-3-2006 at 11:21

It is anhydrous acetic acid ;)
But I think that per acetetic acid would be a better expolsive.

I`ve just another little questin. How could I synthesis per acetic acid? Perhaps with H2O2 and acetetic acid?

[Bearbeitet am 30-3-2006 von Lapis_infernalis]

Darkblade48 - 29-3-2006 at 11:52

Quote:
Originally posted by Lapis_infernalis
It is anhydrous acetic acid ;)
But I think that per acetetic acid would be a better expolsive.

I`ve just another little questin. How could I synthesis per acetzetic acid? Perhaps with H2O2 and acetetic acid?

Care to elucidate what "acetzetic acid" is? The spelling errors goes beyond anything that I can think of...

12AX7 - 29-3-2006 at 13:18

That guy with the VOD program (don't remember your name) -- could you calculate some explosive parameters for our friends acetic and peracetic acids?

I'm guessing a reaction like CH3COOH > H2O + CO + C + H2 would take place, which probably doesn't have much net energy. I highly doubt you *can* actually make it detonate. As for the peroxide, CH3O=C-OO-H > H2O + 2CO + H2 has slightly better return (still wildly rich), and you at least get the energy of breaking the peroxide.

Tim

[Edited on 3-29-2006 by 12AX7]

Sickman - 29-3-2006 at 21:54

The Acetic acid would nuetralize the base ammonium nitrate, forming ammonium acetate and nitric acid solution.
The powerful oxidiser nitric acid would oxidise the ammonium acetate upon detonation? Sprengel explosives anyone?

[Edited on 30-3-2006 by Sickman]

rot - 30-3-2006 at 01:44

Ammonium nitrate is an acid, not base.
also nitric acid is a stronger acid then acetic, so nitric acid won't be formed either.

NH4NO3

MadHatter - 30-3-2006 at 08:56

Acetic acid is listed as an incompatible substance in the MSDS for ammonium nitrate
so I'm trying to determine what's going on that would make this combination explode.

PHILOU Zrealone - 30-3-2006 at 09:33

This link hierunder speaks about SL 700...slurry explosive with microballoons. Density below 0.9g/ccm.
Maybe Urea nitrate based!
http://www.dynonobel.com/NR/rdonlyres/82FBBA38-350C-4DA8-B4C...

CH3-CO2H /HNO3 conc mix is indeed a lab hazard...being at a molecular level 100% miscible fuel/oxidiser mix.

98g of 100% Acetic acid needs at least 52.3g Oxygen to burn partially and 104.6g to burn completely.
So 1 or 2% seems a typo to me...even 2g of pure liquide oxygen will not give good explosive results.So it is maybe a typo?

True that a long time ago...hehe latin cursus sometimes helps in such cases, Hannibal with his elephants made a travel trough famous chain of montains in Europa and he used vinegar to dismantle annoying rocks that were accros his way...for sure calcite rocks.
Regarding that old fact ... with comparison to the actual method maybe the acetic acid is used as calcite eater...and the 1-2% explosive charge may be used to spray it all arround the place???

CaCO3

MadHatter - 31-3-2006 at 06:34

That's an interesting fact considering that calcite, limestone, and marble are all forms of
CaCO3. That would be a unique application of a mix where both corrosive and explosive
properties are used. I'd like to learn more about it.

Marvin - 4-4-2006 at 09:23

There are explosives that consist of ammonium nitrate sensitised with 7%ish acetic acid, so I'd agree with PhZ, it looks like a typo.