Swany - 8-12-2005 at 18:53
This seemed to be the appropriate place to post this topic.
I need to gather ideas for a science competition that involves gathering information, doing reserch, and then writing a report about it, with
pictures, graphs, and whatever other visual aids are needed.
I have roughly 3 months to complete my research and the subsequent report. In other terms, it is needed in near the middle of March '06.
Since it is for school and has to be approved by a panel, it is somewhat limiting. Mind you, this means less uber-mad science, though mad science is
still appreciated. Energetic materials would need to be approached carefully, if at all. High explosives would be out. Rockets in. You get the drift,
no?
Chemistry, electrochemistry, physics, math, biochemistry, biology, and the like are accepted fields of reserch. The former 3 are prefered, though good
ideas in all fields would be great.
Help me, fellow mad scientists! 
12AX7 - 8-12-2005 at 19:17
Well if you're much on math I might suggest learning calculus and calculating the volume of geometric shapes.
Chem, you could isolate a reactive metal, anything from alkaline metals to aluminum or even more exotic items such as titanium. Research mixtures,
apparatus, efficiency (including thermal eff.), etc.
Tim
Swany - 8-12-2005 at 19:26
Perhaps some elaboration is in order. It should be covering a previously unfounded point. Or do something new, make a new whatever. While using the
calculus to calculate geometric volumes is a worthwhile endeavor, it has been done, no? Practical applications and the reasons why they work, or
improvements.
I was thinking about nitrations with different mixes of nitrate salts, or perhaps different ways to shift the equilibrium to products. Heat, different
catalysts, whatever.
Surely some physics can be applied to rockets. I am capable of making propellant and rockets... I can think of some possible variables to compare.
Rockets seem rather appealing, in retrospect.
Thanks for the reply. Please keep them coming.
EDIT: looking at that, if some process of isolation or synthesis of a common, or useful reagent would be an exellent process. Have people on the
internet, (amature scientists) had any sucesses that have been previously unnoticed in 'real' labs?
[Edited on 9-12-2005 by Swany]
JustMe - 8-12-2005 at 19:30
Hi,
What level of school? Will they buy the chems? What equipment is available for synthesis and for analysis?
I have an old project I once worked on for awhile. Not very sexy, but my prof (in college) was interested because he suspected I have found a new type
of chelating agent that hadn't been known before. Unfortunately I had to work that summer to earn money for school and when I came back in the fall
his spare grant money had run out and I couldn't finish the research. Meaning, as an undergraduate, I was last on the totem pole.
Ah, what the hey, I'll tell you it. As I said, nothing that goes boom, but to this day (30 years later) I still wonder if I could have proven that
Saccharin (the anion) acts as a chelating agent in its compounds with transitional elements.
I had prepared Copper II and I, Cobalt II, Manganese II, Zinc, Ferrous, Cadmium and Paladium II compounds. My "holy grail" was to prepare the Chromium
II compound, but as I said, never go the chance. (Ferric and Chromic ions created to acid a solution, and precipitated free Saccharin so I didn't find
a way to make them.) The Palladium compound was neat in that it crystalized as cubes.
They are real easy to prepare (a precipitation reaction in aqueous solution) and recrystallize. But there is some interesting chemistry going on. For
instance, Copper II Saccharin hydrate dissolves in acetone to form a dark green solution which, on sitting, precipitates green crystals. (Same in MEK)
I suspected that these crystals would have a similar structure to that of anhydrous Copper II acetate in which the acetate ion chelates to the Copper.
So I predicted (but never got a chance to make) that Chromous Saccharin would probably give a red crystalline precipitate similar to Chromous
Acetate. (And all it would take to make is to dissolve the appropriate amount of Sodium Saccharin in water and mix it with a quickly made solution of
Chromium II Sulfate or Chloride in Air free water preferably in an air (oxygen) free atmosphere (box)... chromous ions oxidize rapidly. Ah, but
Chromous compounds were (and probably still are) expensive!
I actually had started this project in high school and entered it in a Science Fair and got an award. But I did not have the resources to finish it
in the sense of finding definitive proof, so I was only able to use my data to speculate about the chelation properties of the Saccharin anion. Sigh.
I know it doesn't sound like thrilling chemistry, but it is different. And since the reactants are easy to get and not particularly toxic, it would
probably be easily approved even in today's overly protective environment. And, as I said, you could really discover something.
Ah well. It may not be "mad" enough, but I thought that I'd throw it out there.
The_Davster - 8-12-2005 at 20:07
Preparation of compounds from natural materials like the alchemists did, and then analyse them for purity could be interesting.
woelen - 9-12-2005 at 14:15
A very interesting reaction is the reaction between nitrite and thiocyanate in dilute acidic media. This gives rise to formation of nitrosul
thiocyanate or nitrosyl isothiocyanate. This is a very simple molecule (ON-SCN or ON-NCS) but there is still a lot to be investigated here. Reaction
mechanisms, decomposition of the compound, polymerization and formation of fumes. Just try out the reaction and you'll see a lot of very peculiar
things. If you perform the reaction (takes just 5 minutes of your time and no dangerous and expensive reagents are needed) then you'll see a lot of
special things, definitely worth to investigate. If you keep the dark brown solution you get, then you'll get other interesting compounds (of unknown
composition).
This certain is something, which is different from what everybody else is doing 
and it may even lead to new discoveries.
[Edited on 9-12-05 by woelen]
mick - 9-12-2005 at 15:15
swany
Be careful of the chemistry. isocynates are senitizers.
mick
woelen - 10-12-2005 at 08:04
Isocyanates are not the same as isothiocyanates. Besides that, the isocyanates you are referring at are organics, what I mention are unstable
inorganic compounds. Are isothiocyanates sensitizers as well?
mick - 10-12-2005 at 08:53
I would be even more careful of isothiocyanates. The iso bit usually means it is more reactive.
If you are using the chemicals under good conditions it should not be a problem but once senitized it could be a problem for life, I am sure I have
posted this before.
I worked in a family car repair company for a while and they were spraying isonitriles, the two pack paint system.
I used to walk out when they were spraying the stuff.
The last I heard was the son was senitized and could not touch anything to do with the company and the father nearly died of kidney failure (he lost
weight from 13st to 6st).
Mick
Carcenogenics are always there but senitizers are for life
[Edited on 10-12-2005 by mick]
woelen - 10-12-2005 at 11:18
I personally do not worry too much about this. I do not work with these chems on a daily basis. I've done the experiment I described a few times and
that's all. Of course I take care not to breathe too much of the fumes, but even if I breathed some, I do not really worry. Small inorganics,
unstable, and thiocyanate is not that bad (it is used a lot in photography for toning purposes).
For me, the entire difference with what you describe is the frequency of exposure. You write about daily exposure, year after year. I write about a
two-times exposure and then not again.
Swany - 10-12-2005 at 21:16
Sounds interesting, both of the brilliant ideas. I will contemplate both, thank you very much for your input and potential concerns. Anyone else want
to add some? 
mick - 11-12-2005 at 05:36
woelen
Sorry about that, organic iso stuff is the problem eg toluene diisocyanate etc not the inorganic salts. I have read that arsenic is the reverse,
inorganic arsenic is very toxic but organic arsenic is cleared by the body.
mick
About being sensitized.
In my 20s wearing heavy duty rubber boots and working on site in the chem industry a rash started around my ankle and spread up my leg, down the other
leg and up to my arms. It cleared up but since then I have always been itchy and 30 years later I have still got a scaby bit on my ankle.
mick
[Edited on 11-12-2005 by mick]