Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Detritus for the wrong reason

chemrox - 2-11-2014 at 17:51

"The following post has been reported by a user, please inspect it: https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=42...

Reason: I am aware that this thread is in detritus, but feel that it would be prudent to remove the still-active website links. "

This is over the top nanny.

However, nobody should be selling merchandise here unless its one of us getting rid of no longer needed material or selling an item or two from one's lab. Promotions of one's business here should land in detritus. Polverone: why is Bert a moderator?

Bert - 2-11-2014 at 18:20

We sell chemicals, glassware and other lab equipment to each other frequently. More than one of those doing so is involved in a business related to the things they are selling- Is there a formal policy in place? Where SHOULD the line be drawn??? I am up for that discussion, perhaps it needs to be clarified and put in the FAQ.

Why am I a moderator?

Because they asked me.

Chemosynthesis - 3-11-2014 at 02:04

I don't see anything disagreeable with Bert's discretion, and have found him to be a helpful and approachable moderator. Could you please explain if you feel otherwise, hopefully not initiating argument?

This might be best in Forum Matters to draw in people interested in the discussion, but my personal opinion is that if the forum has a new rule (which I see no reason to institute), then we should disallow advertisements of stores and businesses from the owners unless they have some kind of forum-specific catch, such as advertising a sale.

I have had excellent transactions with both a member selling items in spare time as well as a business, but the business member posted due to a sale rather than just to advertise, and I have seen this theme repeated from interactive owners. Due to this, I don't see any harm falling to current members selling items, but I also see a barrier of entry to forum spammers plastering Chinese resellers in every sub-forum.

It would be nice to get business owning members' opinions before instituting any new rules, which again I feel would be unnecessary to implement. Perhaps general sentiment is different, as I can be very vocal here and do not intend to dissuade any dissent.

hyfalcon - 3-11-2014 at 02:53

If hosting is based in the US, then these kinds of posts, promotion of illicit manufacturing, just brings undue attention.

[Edited on 3-11-2014 by hyfalcon]

HgDinis25 - 3-11-2014 at 08:16

Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon  
If hosting is based in the US, then these kinds of posts, promotion of illicit manufacturing, just brings undue attention.

[Edited on 3-11-2014 by hyfalcon]


I don't think such posts promote ilicit manufacturing. He was indeed selling reagents used in such activities but they also have tons of uses in legit chemical experiments.

Actualy, contrary to what you said, I think it should be wanted attention, so that people, mainly law enforcement, start to notice that such chemicals have a lot more uses and that many amateur chemists use them, not to manufacture drugs, but to learn.

j_sum1 - 3-11-2014 at 12:28

Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  

Actualy, contrary to what you said, I think it should be wanted attention, so that people, mainly law enforcement, start to notice that such chemicals have a lot more uses and that many amateur chemists use them, not to manufacture drugs, but to learn.

Actually if he is having a hard time convincing most of us he is legit, how do think the law enforcement officers will interpret the situation?

Here's my take on it...

Legitimate? -- unlikely
Selling to drug cooks / recruiting drug cooks -- quite possible
Entrapment -- Most likely

HgDinis25 - 3-11-2014 at 13:25

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  
Quote: Originally posted by HgDinis25  

Actualy, contrary to what you said, I think it should be wanted attention, so that people, mainly law enforcement, start to notice that such chemicals have a lot more uses and that many amateur chemists use them, not to manufacture drugs, but to learn.

Actually if he is having a hard time convincing most of us he is legit, how do think the law enforcement officers will interpret the situation?

Here's my take on it...

Legitimate? -- unlikely
Selling to drug cooks / recruiting drug cooks -- quite possible
Entrapment -- Most likely


If they pick an interest on this forum I think it is quite reasonable to think that they would admire themselves on how many people do amteur legit chemistry. I was not refering to this person and situation specificaly.

macckone - 3-11-2014 at 14:57

We do have commercial sellers on here as well.
Some of them are quite helpful.
I don't think a blanket ban on sellers is a good thing.
I do think them offering relevant sales and keeping the advertising low key is a good thing.

Tom Holm of elemental scientific is one of these and he offers discounts to us and special orders chemicals for us.

Metacelsus - 3-11-2014 at 15:08

I agree; Elemental Scientific is great. However, that site was not Elemental Scientific. Therefore, I agree with the move to Detritus.

chemrox - 3-11-2014 at 15:27

"Actualy, contrary to what you said, I think it should be wanted attention, so that people, mainly law enforcement, start to notice that such chemicals have a lot more uses and that many amateur chemists use them, not to manufacture drugs, but to learn."

True but ultimately frustrating..they don't listen and if their mission is "law enforcement" they're unlikely to care about anything else. I shouldn't slam Bert in particular. I simply dislike nanny-pandering and this one sounded too much like it. I think it's easy to tell the difference between someone, e.g. plante, who is selling some equipment, shares in a larger reagent purchase, miscellaneous supplies, etc. and someone who is advertising a chemical business. I have a friend who is a member here that also has a chemical business. He doesn't promote his business through the forum. It would be inappropriate for him to do so.

HgDinis25 - 3-11-2014 at 15:54

Quote: Originally posted by chemrox  
"Actualy, contrary to what you said, I think it should be wanted attention, so that people, mainly law enforcement, start to notice that such chemicals have a lot more uses and that many amateur chemists use them, not to manufacture drugs, but to learn."

True but ultimately frustrating..they don't listen and if their mission is "law enforcement" they're unlikely to care about anything else. I shouldn't slam Bert in particular. I simply dislike nanny-pandering and this one sounded too much like it. I think it's easy to tell the difference between someone, e.g. plante, who is selling some equipment, shares in a larger reagent purchase, miscellaneous supplies, etc. and someone who is advertising a chemical business. I have a friend who is a member here that also has a chemical business. He doesn't promote his business through the forum. It would be inappropriate for him to do so.


I think your friend should opne a topic in Reagents acquisition. I wouldn't see that as something inappropriate to do if it is done only once and in the right place. Quite the opposite, when our members are buying goodyes it may give them more confidence to buy from trusted members instead of risking buying elsewhere online.

macckone - 3-11-2014 at 15:55

I never saw the original post, so I can't argue that it shouldn't be moved to detritus. I trust bert's judgement on that.

I don't see a problem with chemical businesses having a post in reagents and acquisitions where they can post specials that are specific to our forum. Many chemical sellers do not engage us nor do they want our business. Those that do and are willing to give us special discounts are welcome in my book provided they follow forum rules and keep things to a single thread.

Mr. Holm has been very good about this and many members are using his special order service.

I think anyone offering a similar respect of the forum and offering science maddness members good service would be welcome. That includes chemrox friend, although he should probably have a separate account for posting things for his business and he should probably clear it with a moderator first.

Honestly the forum may be getting large enough that a subforum for sellers might be appropriate. This has been proposed before but has not gone anywhere.

diddi - 3-11-2014 at 15:55

law enforcement have little to no understanding of chemistry as a rule, so anything that looks like glassware, or white powder etc is immediately regarded as a drug kitchen. IMHO anyone stupid enough to purchase from this person in the original OP deserves to get a visit from those who know all. if for some reason I was performing a legal synthesis which required pseudoephedrine I would be wanting a reliable sample from a reliable source. and somehow I cant imagine that I would be working up the synth in a 10liter rbf and have black plastic on my windows ;)

I am also very explicit in inviting immediate neighbours to look at what I am doing in my open garage so they can see the product is purified gold from circuit boards, or orange crystals or whatever, because suspicion always brings uninvited raids.

as others agree, I think discreetly advertised chemical sales on the forum is fine and indeed a valuable service available to members