Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Readily Available Chemicals Website

Readily Available Chemicals Website

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I am a fish - 19-1-2003 at 12:28

I recently asked about chemicals that can be 'easily' purchased by private individuals on sci.chem. I compiled the responses and information aquired from various websites into a list at http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/chemicals.

What do you think? Are there any errors or major omissions?

Chris

Polverone - 19-1-2003 at 14:03

That page looks nice. You have a good start.

Ammonium chloride is also found in soldering fluxes.
Ammonium nitrate is also found in some chemical instant cold packs.
Boric acid is also found as an insecticide and at pottery/ceramics suppliers.
Calcium carbonate is also found at pottery/ceramics suppliers.
What you have labeled "calcium chlorate (I)" is actually calcium hypochlorite; calcium chlorate would be Ca(ClO3)2.
I've never seen any moth flakes that contained camphor but this may vary by country.
Purer carbon can be found in the form of activated charcoal, available for water purification in fish tanks at pet stores.
Large graphite rods can be found as carbon "gouging rods" or "brazing rods" at a welding supplier.
Food grade citric acid is very pure.
If you want pure nitrous oxide, and not nitrous oxide + whipped cream, you can buy small "whippets" of the gas from restaurant suppliers.
Your use of consistent IUPAC nomenclature is admirable but almost everybody will recognize "oxalic acid" faster than "ethanedioic acid."
Likewise, you might want to include the more common name "ethylene glycol" for ethan-1,2-diol.
Formaldehyde solution is also sold (at least in the U.S.) as disinfectants for chemical toilet systems.
Your "lithium chlorate (I)" I would also call "lithium hypochlorite."
Magnesium metal can be found in some sacrificial anodes for water heaters at plumbing suppliers.
Nitromethane is also found, relatively pure, in some solvents for cyanoacrylate adhesives (superglue).
I'm fairly surprised to find that pentyl ethanoate is an ingredient in some paint strippers - is it just a small amount placed as a fragrance additive, for the banana smell?
I have also seen potassium chloride sold as a fertilizer - "muriate of potash" - and sold in large quantities for softening water.
Potassium dichromate is also found through some pottery/ceramics suppliers.
Potassium permanganate is also sold at hardware stores (some) for removing iron from some older water filters.
Silicon dioxide is available in higher purity and finer particle sizes either from pottery suppliers or as "diatomaceous earth," sold for use in gardening and in filtering swimming pool water.
You will have a very hard time finding pure sodium nitrite (at least in the U.S.) as a meat preservative. Most preservatives are pre-mixed and contain a relatively small amount.

And now for some things that didn't make your list to begin with.
Barium carbonate is sold through pottery suppliers.
Calcium carbide, CaC2, is available as an acetylene source for old-style headmounted caving/mining lights.
Calcium fluoride - pottery suppier.
Chromium (III) oxide - pottery supplier.
Cobalt oxide and carbonate - pottery supplier.
Copper (II) oxide - pottery supplier.
Basic copper carbonate (mixture of copper carbonate and hydroxide) - pottery supplier.
Fructose - grocery/health food store.
Lithium metal is found inside lithium batteries.
Methyl ethyl ketone is found as a solvent in hardware/paint stores.
Nickel carbonate and oxide - pottery supplier.
Paraformaldehyde, polymerized formaldehyde, is available as a disinfectant for chemical toilets and as camping fuel tablets (often labeled "trioxane.")
Potassium carbonate is sold at pottery suppliers as "pearl ash."
Potassium chlorate - some photo suppliers.
Sodium bromide - "bromine base" for spas.
Sodium sulfide - photo supplier.
Sulfamic acid - hardware store.
Strontium carbonate - pottery supplier.
Vanadium pentoxide - pottery supplier.

This list could easily be twice as long if I included everything that you can get from pottery suppliers. Check out http://www.clayartcenter.com for an idea of what's possible; they have the largest selection of materials I've seen at any pottery supplier. Likewise, look at an online photo supplier like http://www.photoformulary.com to see how many things are available as photo supplies. I'm sorry that I only have these two U.S.-based sites to point you to, but I haven't looked outside the U.S. since shipping would be so expensive for me.

I am a fish - 20-1-2003 at 09:26

Thanks for your comments. I'll add your suggestions to the list.

With regard to your criticisms of the list:

1. Chlorate(I) is a valid synonym for hypochlorite. Perhaps this is misleading and should be changed.

2. According to an Australian sci.chem user, camphor moth flakes are available. Apparently, they are better (for their intended purpose) than naphthalene, but far more expensive.

3. I sympathise with your opinion on IUPAC nomenclature. However, it's very difficult to find a compromise between systematic and trivial names. Are there any other names you think need changing?

4. I think your right about Pentyl Ethanoate and Sodium Nitrite. I'll remove them.

With regard to pottery and photographic suppliers:

I think I'm going to remove everything that comes from either of these and put up links to specific companies. There's no point doing what the companies' web-sites can obviously do better.

The two sites you gave looked good (although I imagine that shipping to the UK would cost a fortune). I have found a UK equivalent for the photographic one (http://www.silverprint.co.uk), but have yet to find a decent pottery site.

Chris

Polverone - 20-1-2003 at 14:39

I did not realize that chlorate (I) is a valid name; my apologies. I am used to seeing oxidation state Roman numerals only after cations. Do you do the same with other compounds? I.E. could NaNO2 be sodium nitrate (III)?

Your point about Australian camphor moth flakes reminds me: it would be useful if you added a "Geographical Region" field. For example, sodium chlorate weed killers are widely available in the UK and mainland Europe, but they are not to be found in the US or Canada. Methanol is readily available in the US (UK as well?) but I know that it is forbidden in consumer products in some European countries.

I believe that I mentioned the names that seemed to be too uncommon as IUPAC constructs. One possible remedy would be to change "Name Sold Under" to "Synonyms" and list trivial and archaic names there (I realize that this would be more work for you and might make the table too large).

I am a fish - 22-1-2003 at 10:00

I've updated it. Thanks for your help.

Chris

F8pMNrtc

PoDuck - 17-2-2003 at 22:57

Before I get started, I should state that I am quite new to amateur chemistry. My experience is limited to the limited amount of chemistry classes I took in college, and I have just recently regained interest. Therefore, I stand to be corrected quite often on this or any other chemistry related board.

That being said, I've been doing a little research about finding chemicals in common places, and synthesizing what you can't easily buy. Because of this, I have been able to notice at least one thing that should be clarified in case someone gets the wrong idea. It's just a slight oversight though. You stated that calcium hydroxide is lime. Lime is sold at hardware stores as "lime" and "quicklime." Basically, they use the term interchangably for both calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide. The names which it goes by that won't be confused are slaked lime, and hydrated lime. It can also be made from quicklime by just adding 1 part water to 4 parts quicklime.

Other sources for aluminum powder may be paint stores that supply automotive paint. Aluminum powder is used to make some metalic paints, and if you know about auto paint, you know that you mix your own stuff. I've heard that it can be found at pottery supply places too.

Another source for calcium chloride is home brewing suppliers. A food grade version which is quite pure is sold as an additive for making beer.

You stated that the aluminum powder may be wax coated, but nothing about aluminum foil. Aluminum foil often has impurities and coatings on it.

Ammonium nitrate solution is not in cold packs. The cold packs with ammonium nitrate are the ones that you squeeze to break the bag of water inside. The water mixes with the AN and cools. The blue ones you put in the freezer are some sort of glycol.

Acetic acid is one you may wish to put up there. That is the main ingredient in vinegar.

I'm actually working on my own list of sources for chemicals, and synthesis of chemicals. Right now, I'm looking for a source of ammonium hydroxide that is more pure than the household ammonia you buy at grocery stores, or a simple method using commonly acquired chemicals to create pure ammonia gas that I can manufacture my own with, or add purity to household ammonia with.

I am a fish - 18-2-2003 at 08:52

Quote:

That being said, I've been doing a little research about finding chemicals in common places, and synthesizing what you can't easily buy. Because of this, I have been able to notice at least one thing that should be clarified in case someone gets the wrong idea. It's just a slight oversight though. You stated that calcium hydroxide is lime. Lime is sold at hardware stores as "lime" and "quicklime." Basically, they use the term interchangably for both calcium oxide and calcium hydroxide. The names which it goes by that won't be confused are slaked lime, and hydrated lime. It can also be made from quicklime by just adding 1 part water to 4 parts quicklime.

You're right; it was ambiguous. I've changed Ca(OH)2 to Slaked Lime / Hydrated Lime

Quote:

Other sources for aluminum powder may be paint stores that supply automotive paint. Aluminum powder is used to make some metalic paints, and if you know about auto paint, you know that you mix your own stuff. I've heard that it can be found at pottery supply places too.

Added That

Quote:

Another source for calcium chloride is home brewing suppliers. A food grade version which is quite pure is sold as an additive for making beer.

Added That

Quote:

You stated that the aluminum powder may be wax coated, but nothing about aluminum foil. Aluminum foil often has impurities and coatings on it.

I've modified that.

Quote:

Ammonium nitrate solution is not in cold packs. The cold packs with ammonium nitrate are the ones that you squeeze to break the bag of water inside. The water mixes with the AN and cools. The blue ones you put in the freezer are some sort of glycol.

I've never seen that type of cold-pack before. I just assumed that it meant the freezer ones. I've changed that.

Thanks for your help,

Chris

PoDuck - 18-2-2003 at 18:14

One thing I found that may help you in your search for sources for chemicals is this site.

http://www.scorecard.org/chemical-profiles/

It seems to be a database of hazard information, but it does give you an idea of where to look for chemicals. It's helped me on a couple obscure ones.

ammonia / ammonium hydroxide

Polverone - 19-2-2003 at 11:40

Quote:

Right now, I'm looking for a source of ammonium hydroxide that is more pure than the household ammonia you buy at grocery stores, or a simple method using commonly acquired chemicals to create pure ammonia gas that I can manufacture my own with, or add purity to household ammonia with.

Plain, clear grocery store ammonia is pretty pure but not very concentrated. You can find somewhat more concentrated ammonia solution as a janitorial supply. You can find much more concentrated ammonia solutions for use in blueprinting and, of course, from a laboratory supplier.

If you are in the U.S. look at http://www.al-chymist.com or www.photoformulary.com.

To prepare ammonia gas you can react an ammonia salt with a strong base. NaOH + NH4NO3 -> NH3 + NaNO3 + H2O. The more common (as fertilizer) ammonium sulfate can be substituted to yield a somewhat less desirable byproduct.

You don't say you need anhydrous ammonia so doing without a drying agent should be fine, although you will have difficulty getting some of that extremely-water-soluble ammonia out of the H2O generated by the reaction. Heating will help. In any case, as I hope you know, ammonia gas is extremely irritating and can be dangerous in high concentrations, so this isn't an indoor activity unless you are very sure you have taken sufficient precautions.

PoDuck - 19-2-2003 at 15:02

I know all about the dangers of ammonia gas. In my high school chemistry class, there was a student that decided he wanted to take a whiff of some of the ammonia fumes coming off the ammonium hydroxide we had there. He ended up losing his breath, he passed out before he regained his breath, and he ended up going to the hospital. That in itself makes anyone who witnessed it have a great respect for the gas.

Thanks for the information.

[Edited on 19-2-2003 by PoDuck]

Haggis - 19-2-2003 at 15:56

Aqueous Citric acid is sold for dehumidifiers. Sodium Carbonate is sold for cleaning coffee makers. Potassium bromide is sold by Kodak for film processing.
These are just OTC chems I have found recently, I'm not sure if they are useful, but if you are interested, I will look up the brand and mass of each container.

Another source for mercury

PoDuck - 23-2-2003 at 20:28

A friend of mine got a large tylenol bottle full of mercury from mercury vapor lights. He said he broke them open gently and poured out the mercury. I'm not sure how much mercury is in each light though.

I am a fish - 17-3-2003 at 03:25

Quote:

Aqueous Citric acid is sold for dehumidifiers. Sodium Carbonate is sold for cleaning coffee makers. Potassium bromide is sold by Kodak for film processing.

I've tried looking for citric acid dehumidifiers, but have found nothing. Can you provide a reference?

With regard to coffer maker cleaner, I found some consisting of 'oxygen bleach' or sodium percarbonate. This has been added to the list. Is this what you were refering to?

I have made the decision not to add photographic chemicals to the list (except for the most rudimentary supplies). Otherwise, the list would essentially be a duplicate of a Silverprint or Photographers' Formulary catalogue.

Chris

Haggis - 17-3-2003 at 15:05

Although I do not use it for anything, the aqueous citric acid is: "KAZ Humidifier & Vaporizer Treatment." Model: KWT-8. It is an 8 oz bottle and the label is mostly blue with the model in a yellow box. Contains: Citric acid and cationic.
Heh..."avoid contamination of food"

The coffee cleaner is "Brew Rite" brand. The bottle has an 80 looking decor style. This is an 8 oz (227 grams) container. "Contains: Sodium Carbonate."

Both were bought in America

Ammonium Nitrate

Cappy - 29-3-2003 at 20:44

Quote:

Originally posted by PoDuck
Ammonium nitrate solution is not in cold packs. The cold packs with ammonium nitrate are the ones that you squeeze to break the bag of water inside. The water mixes with the AN and cools. The blue ones you put in the freezer are some sort of glycol.

It is true that ammonium nitrate is not found in all cold packs. However it is found in all INSTANT cold packs.

For the most accuracy and clarity, the description should be "powder in INSTANT cold packs."

The above post is not entirely correct (see below)

[Edited on 30-3-2003 by Cappy]

Constructive Criticism

Cappy - 29-3-2003 at 20:51

The chemical formula of Zinc Oxide is not ZnCl2.

I am a fish - 30-3-2003 at 05:10

Quote:

The chemical formula of Zinc Oxide is not ZnCl2.

Fixed that.

Thanks,

Chris

not all cold packs

Polverone - 30-3-2003 at 13:12

For even more accuracy and clarity, it should be noted that some instant cold packs use urea instead of ammonium nitrate.

Cappy - 30-3-2003 at 15:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Polverone
For even more accuracy and clarity, it should be noted that some instant cold packs use urea instead of ammonium nitrate.

I stand corrected. Can you find instant cold packs in the grocery store. If so, what section might they be in?

Organikum - 30-3-2003 at 15:15

I never ever have seen paraformaldehyde - Trioxane camping fuel Polverone.
To be true I have heard of Trioxane´s military use as solid fuel. But this is as the name say trioxane aka metaformaldehyde and not paraformaldehyde. I never saw this in civil shops so.
If you have seen paraformaldehyde in fuel tablets it must have been a ghost or a mistake with PARALDEHYDE which indeed was sold as solid camping fuel many years ago. (Also in a slightly other polymerized form called METHALDEHYDE, which is reformed to PARALDEHYDE by heating carefully) If you stumble over some of these old ones and burn them you don´t know what you do. Paraldehyde is a list 1 sedative/hypnoticum and could (theoretically) be sold to the local junkies for....
but thats hypothetic and would be illegal.

So the best you can do if you find those, is to send them to me as I guarantee for the proper disposal. No costs. I have a good heart.

The brandname was "META" manufactured by "LONZA" .
At least in europe.

Of course is paraldehyde (liquid) as methaldehyde (solid) a first class acetaldehyde source

Most solid fuel is Hexamine so (ESBIT) whats a good for everyone who wants methylamine and has not discovered acetamide yet. And all pyromantics of course.

ORG

I stand corrected

Polverone - 30-3-2003 at 15:58

You were right: I had confused metaformaldehyde (trioxane) with paraformaldehyde. If anybody stumbles across metaldehyde tablets and does not want to ship them all the way to the Czech Republic, I am available for disposal here on the west coast of the United States...

Organikum - 31-3-2003 at 17:26

Oh, thats not fair Polverone as I hoped I could dispose this useless red phosphorus in retour.
Will have to do it on the tomatoes again, hope they don´t have to much already.

[Edited on 1-4-2003 by Organikum]

Cappy - 1-4-2003 at 10:58

Sodium azide is used in to inflate automobile airbags.

I don't know if the canisters can be found easily.

tangent - 2-4-2003 at 00:13

> For even more accuracy and clarity, it should be noted that some instant cold packs use urea instead of ammonium nitrate.

is this mixed w/ water or something else?

thanks,

-t

madscientist - 2-4-2003 at 09:35

According to the organic chemistry textbook used by Princeton University, phenyl azide is also used to inflate airbags.

in urea instant cold packs...

Polverone - 2-4-2003 at 10:58

The urea is mixed with water released from a burstable pouch, as in the ammonium nitrate packs.

Cappy - 9-4-2003 at 23:15

ammonium nitrate - 34-0-0 fertilzer

potassium nitrate - 13.5-0-46 fertilizer

urea - 46-0-0 fertilizer

There are several other formulations, but these are the main ones that have relatively pure chemicals. It should be noted that sometimes there will be a polymer coating on the grains to reduce solubility for slower absorption.

Unfortunately, places like Home Depot don't have enough selection to offer the pure formulations, which are less useful to gardeners.

PHILOU Zrealone - 10-4-2003 at 03:08

NH4NO3 --> N2H4O3 --> 28g/N per mole NH4NO3 (80g)
thus 35% by weight!

KNO3 --> 14g N and 39,1g K per mole KNO3 (101,1g)
thus 13,84% N bw and 38,67% K bw!

NH2-CO-NH2 --> N2H4CO --> 28g N per mole (60g)
thus 46,66% N bw!

Thus the reference numbers X Y Z
X = % Nitrogen (N)
Y = % Phosphorus (P)
Z = % Kalium (Potassium) (K)

Those are listed as NPK fertilisers!
AN --> 35 0 0
U --> 46,6 0 0
PN --> 13,8 0 38,6

Urea nitrate (UN), guanidine nitrate (GN), potassium phosphate (PP), ammonium phosphate (AP)
UN --> 34,1 0 0
GN --> 45,6 0 0
MPP --> 0 22,8 28,7
DPP --> 0 17,8 44,9
TPP --> 0 14,6 55,2
MAP --> 12,1 26,9 0
DAP --> 21,2 23,5 0
TAP --> 28,2 20,8 0

Also possible K sulfate, NH4 sulfate, Mg nitrate, Mg sulfate, Ca cyanamide (CaN-CN), Ca nitrate, ....

:cool:

madscientist - 12-4-2003 at 16:09

Trichloroethene is sold as "Carbo Sol," a solvent. Glycolic acid is sold as "Sucanat," an alternative sugar (also, a solution of it is sold as "sugar cane juice"

- purity is not exceptional. Copper napthenate is sold as Jasco Termin-8 Wood Preservative Green (25% solution).

platinum oxidation catalyst

Organikum - 13-4-2003 at 19:53

coated on plastic is found in some contact-lens cleaner set working with H2O2. The replacement parts - catalyst coated, can be got quite cheap at EBAY or have a look for discount offers.
Works.
At least for cleaning contact lenses.

I am a fish - 25-4-2003 at 05:30

Quote:

Trichloroethene is sold as "Carbo Sol," a solvent. Glycolic acid is sold as "Sucanat," an alternative sugar (also, a solution of it is sold as "sugar cane juice"

- purity is not exceptional. Copper napthenate is sold as Jasco Termin-8 Wood Preservative Green (25% solution).

Thanks

I've added sucanat and wood preservative. Can you provide any reference for Carbo Sol?

Haggis - 25-4-2003 at 07:48

I can be a second confirmation on the Carbo-sol. It is indeed trichloroethane. I don't know if you need an internet source, but I can confirm the contents.

I am a fish - 25-4-2003 at 11:18

The single letter typo strikes again!

Trichloroethane seems far more likely. Madscientist said trichloroethene which of course is not the same thing. Am I right in thinking that it's the 1,1,1 isomer?

Plastic Wrap

Cappy - 1-5-2003 at 13:02

Chemical Name (Common Name) [Source] {Notes}

Polyethylene (Low Density Polyethylene) [Plastic Cling Wrap] {Contains Proprietary Cling Agents}

Poly Vinylidene Chloride (Saran) [Saran Original Plastic Wrap] {Contains acetyl tributyl citrate (ATBC) plasticizer}

Despite the additives, the purity of the plastic wraps is very high.

[Edited on 5/1/2003 by Cappy]

madscientist - 1-5-2003 at 14:41

"Carbo Sol" is trichloroeth<b>e</b>ne.

1,1,1,-trichloroeth<b>a</b>ne supposedly is also sold as a solvent, but I have yet to find it (not that I've put a serious effort into finding it, though).

build your ship or airplane

Organikum - 1-5-2003 at 19:50

with the help of
www.fibreglast.com

item #70 styrene
item #69 MEKP, methyl-ethyl-ketone peroxide. with cobalt promotor. Hm.

polystyrene can also be made by thermal decomposition of polystyrol. No reference, sorry.

[Edited on 2-5-2003 by Organikum]

Tetrafluoroethane

Cappy - 14-5-2003 at 23:59

I don't know if this has any use, but the GC Electronics Airjet contains 100% 1, 1, 1, 2-tetrafluoroethane (811-97-2).

It is non flamable, and can be condensed at aerosol can pressures.

Haggis - 15-5-2003 at 04:04

When turned upside down and sprayed, the cans shoot a jet of the tetraflouroethane. This jet evaporates quickly and gets very cold all of a sudden. I was thinking that this could be used to cool down reactions in a hurry. I would imagine the gas is fairly inert, but I wouldn't spray it directly into your mixture. A few quick sprays on the bottom of the glassware would be enough to drop it a good amount of degrees. Just spray more as soon as the first 'frost' dissappears, which is in around 3-5 seconds

[Edited on 15-5-2003 by Haggis]

even better

Polverone - 15-5-2003 at 09:15

Find a way to chemically oxidize the tetrafluroethane under reasonable conditions. You should be able to obtain trifluoroacetic acid.

lead and salts

jimwig - 17-5-2003 at 06:38

forgive me if this was already posted but my experience with lead-sulfate batteries might be of use.

If one deconstructs a said battery one finds

sulfuric acid (dilute)
a great quantity of lead/antimony metal
like quantity of lead dioxide.

BromicAcid - 17-7-2003 at 16:42

Im actually looking for some source of nitrobenzene and I'm wondering if anyone has gone before me on this quest. Via internet information I have found that it comes in furniture polish, pesticides, and I've seen it in gun cleaning solutions, it is a highly mass produced chemical (in the top 50's) so I'm assuming that there might be a somewhat more pure source for it, or just further information on percent content in some of the afformentioned things, I'm going to start on my quest in ernest tommorow but any help from this community would be appreciated.

Polverone - 17-7-2003 at 17:51

Nitrobenzene may be produced in large quantities, but I doubt you'll find much of it in consumer products due to its high toxicity. As mentioned elsewhere on this site, if you can't buy benzene it is possible to make it by a Friedel-Crafts alkylation/dealkylation reaction. Combine (nearly) anhydrous AlI3/AlCl3 and toluene, heat, distill off the benzene as it it's formed.

Wild musing: won't the aluminum halide be dried by refluxing with toluene anyway... so you might be able to start off with not-so-anhydrous material? I recall that Ullmann says a small quantity of alcohol or water needs to be added over time anyway, as absolutely anhydrous aluminum halides lose their effect.

The methyl groups will go on to make xylene and mesitylene. The wide BP difference should allow you to get a pretty good benzene separation. This can be nitrated in the usual way to nitrobenzene.

Apart from volatility, is there a simple test that will distinguish between benzene and its methylated brethren?

BromicAcid - 17-7-2003 at 18:43

To answer your question that somewhat relates to mine a simple test to distinguish between benzene and it's brotherhood of the methyl group is simple oxidation. Benzene is stable to a wide variety of oxidizing agents (H2SO4/K2Cr2O7 comes to mind) but the methyl groups (and longer carbon chains) are chewed up and turned to benzoic acid and the like. Although benzoic acid is soluble in benzene and toluene and xylenes if you allow them to evaporate you should end up with the tell tale flakes of benzoic acid if it contains the methyl groups but if it is pure benzene then there should be no residue (except maybe residue from oxidizing agents), exp. if it was distilled before hand.

Organikum - 19-7-2003 at 19:27

Quote:

.... it is possible to make it by a Friedel-Crafts alkylation/dealkylation reaction. Combine (nearly) anhydrous AlI3/AlCl3 and toluene, heat, distill off the benzene as it it's formed.
....

I posted it in the benzene thread already, it seems favorable to use iodine instead of chlorine for the reverse Friedl-Craffts (de)alkylation.
No need for AlCl3 anhydrous this way: Iodine and Al dumped in toluene, distilling benzene out - a big column will be favorable for separation. Re-alkylation should be a minor problem this way.

kryss - 7-8-2003 at 15:24

(UK) I was looking at the labpak website noticed a few things like diethyl ether / acetaldehye & toluene are prescribed. Thing is KNO3/CLO3 etc arent.Is this because of their use in drugs processing?

I am a fish - 13-8-2003 at 11:04

Quote:

Originally posted by kryss
(UK) I was looking at the labpak website noticed a few things like diethyl ether / acetaldehye & toluene are prescribed. Thing is KNO3/CLO3 etc arent.Is this because of their use in drugs processing?

Most probably.

The ban is particularly stupid when you consider that Diethyl Ether and Toluene can both be bought from Halfords (as 'Cold Start Spray' and 'Cellulose Thinner' respectively).

axehandle - 25-1-2004 at 13:48

You've listed:
"Lead Pb Lead Shot Gun Supplier Contains 1% antimony"

which is inaccurate. Bullets for handloading can contain anything from 0 to 10% antimony, and they all contain a percentage if tin as well to lower the alloy's melting temp. and improve the viscosity to allow for easier casting.

A source for (almost) pure lead is any scrapyard that deals with used medical X-ray shielding plate. That's how I've gotten all lead I've used. One side of the plates are usually covered with paint, which you can remove by melting the plates in portions and
skim the smelly, half-burnt paint off the top with a *swedish->english blackout* one of those kithen things with a handle and a round plate with holes in it.

Price: Approx. 2,5kg/$ where I got it, and a suitable excuse is "I'm casting toy soldiers".

(Another source, in Sweden, is "Metallvaruhuset". The price is horrendous though, something like $10/kg..., on the other hand it's 99,9% pure.)

axehandle - 25-1-2004 at 13:55

Also a source for pure platinum as well as platinum-rhodium/platinum-palladium alloy, is
any jeweller (one that actually makes jewelry,
not a retail store). If you, like me, ask really really nicely, you should eventually get lucky.

The one that will get my platinum agreed to purchase 2 grams for me when he's making his next bulk noble metal order from "insert big company that don't sell to individuals here".

My excuse was "catalyst research experiment to improve environmental friendlyness of combustion engines". Cosy, who could refuse? Don't say "catalyst for sulfuric acid production". =)

vulture - 25-1-2004 at 14:02

Nitrobenzene:

Aniline + H2SO5 ---> nitrobenzene

I know, it seems odd to reverse the industrial process, but if it's the only way you can get it...

Geomancer - 25-1-2004 at 15:34

Propylene glycol is propan-1,2-diol, not 1,3.

Vulture: Have you found a way to get aniline OTC? I always thought you would have to go through nitrobenzene (or perhaps chlorobenzene or benzylamide).

I am a fish - 26-1-2004 at 08:41

I've corrected the entries for propylene glycol and lead.

Thanks for your help.

Can anyone find any more mistakes?

Geomancer - 26-1-2004 at 10:18

Unfortunately, Sucanat appears to be 88 percent sucrose, with the remainder being all types of stuff. Might be a tasty product (I haven't seen it), but it would be a lousy source of glycolic acid. I think that the main route to the acid is electrochemical reduction of oxalic acid (I may be wrong here). It is used in some cleaning solutions, you may be able to find a relatively pure one. In the US, a common product is "CLR", for dissolving Comthing (it's a soft c), Lime, and Rust. It contains mostly glycolic, citric, and sulfamic acids along with the usual small amounts of surfactants and whatnot. Separation may prove difficult.

I am a fish - 26-1-2004 at 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Geomancer
Unfortunately, Sucanat appears to be 88 percent sucrose, with the remainder being all types of stuff. Might be a tasty product (I haven't seen it), but it would be a lousy source of glycolic acid.

Thanks,

I'll look into it.

Quote:

In the US, a common product is "CLR", for dissolving Comthing (it's a soft c), Lime, and Rust. It contains mostly glycolic, citric, and sulfamic acids along with the usual small amounts of surfactants and whatnot. Separation may prove difficult.

Thanks. However, I avoid placing mixtures on the list, unless they are extremely easy to seperate, or one of the chemicals is particularly useful. Citric acid and sulphamic acid are both available from multiple sources and gycolic acid isn't particularly useful.

axehandle - 26-1-2004 at 16:30

Goody. This is country specific, but you can get
pure copper, zinc and aluminium from Metallvaruhuset.se as well.

(As well as bronze, aluminium bronze, etc.)

They ship overseas.

axehandle - 11-2-2004 at 23:28

How about having links in your list to specific suppliers in different countries, at least for "innocent" chemicals like platinum, copper, etc?

I could contribute all the Swedish ones I know of.

thunderfvck - 12-2-2004 at 00:25

I don't know how specific you are trying to be in your tables (which I am extremely grateful for), but Draino has semi-pure NaOH pellets in it, along with pure aluminum pieces.
Camping fuel is also a source of petroleum ether/naptha.
And 98% H2SO4 is found in Clear-Line drain cleaner, which is red colored. I might assume that most sulphuric acid drain cleaners tinted red are of the same purity.

I want to add that I am tired and too lazy to look at the site to see if the above mentioned are included in your tables. Perhaps it might be good to include a link in each category giving specific brand names and associated purities. A lot of work but I'm sure enough data can be compiled over time to get the job done.

Thanks again for a wonderful list.

axehandle - 20-2-2004 at 03:22

Diatomaceous earth (aka kiselgur, fossilized algae), used as a carrier for catalysts as well as for making dynamite (as it was first made), is also used as a nutritional supplement for horses. A vet or "horse supply store" or major pet hospitals should have it.

Diatomaceous Earth

Hermes_Trismegistus - 20-2-2004 at 14:08

Is also used in pool filters (extrememly finely powdered and will cause silicosis if inhaled too much)

However the CHEAPEST source is from a garden supply. Its an organic pest supply

It's used outdoors to kill aphids and indoors

to kill the red mites that plague certain

indoor growers

http://www.commonsensecare.com/diatomaceous-earth.html

2 bucks a lb in the US

http://www.d-earth.co.uk/

who knows? probably pretty cheap

The_Davster - 6-3-2004 at 18:32

I found oxalic acid at the pharmacy under the name "salts of lemon". Expensive though, 3.50(canadian) for 25g

Mumbles - 6-3-2004 at 18:36

Hmmmmm, odd. I've seen the same name of a product here, and it's citric acid. The only way I can buy Oxalic acid pure is as wood bleach. I could leach from wood I suppose.

The_Davster - 6-3-2004 at 21:16

Mumbles, you have got me worried that what I purchased is not oxalic acid, even though it says so on the front. Do you know of any tests to distinguish one from the other? Mabey a polymerization with a diol?

BromicAcid - 25-5-2004 at 15:01

I was looking at the side of a big bag of algecide that we use at my work. The active ingredient is ethylamine copper complex, the bags are about 15 Kg each and contain .5 kg of copper as elemental copper. Maybe this could be used as a source of ethylamine.

EDIT: It's actually ethanolamine that the complex is made from not ethylamine, sorry

[Edited on 5/27/2004 by BromicAcid]

The_Davster - 24-12-2004 at 23:44

I found some water purifier tablets today that contain 7% sodium chlorite. The other 93% is not listed but it is a non active ingredient.

Great job!!!!!!

HNO3 - 25-12-2004 at 18:14

But H2B4O7 isn't right, is it?
I can get phosphoric acid as concrete etchant. I can get 95.5-99.2% pure KNO3 as stump remover. Don't believe me on the purity? Hang your eyes on this. And just so I can brag, I'm attaching MY 'Chemical equivilancy list'.

Rats, it never attached. :mad:

[Edited on 12-26-04 by HNO3]

sparkgap - 16-1-2005 at 06:02

Sorry for bringing up this old post, but from what I gather, metaformaldehyde, a.k.a. trioxane is different from metaldehyde, one from formaldehyde and the other from acetaldehyde. Trioxane is frequently used in camp stoves, while metaldehyde is used for desiccating snails to their doom. Metaldehyde is sometimes used, however, as fuel.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Dream of the iris - 13-1-2006 at 13:04

Iron oxide is sold as concrete coloring in a fine powder. It's sold in 1lb boxes at Home Depot.

Toluene and Xylene are sold at Ace Hardware in the paint thinning section. They are sold as the Ace hardware brand "Toluene" and "Xylene"

Ace Hardware also sells H2SO4 at pretty pure concentrations as "Rooto Drain Cleaner".

Citric acid is sold at Target (Supertarget) in the grocery section where the spices are. I forgot what it's called, maybe "Food Fresh" or something? It's used to preserve foods for canning IIRC.

Dream of the iris - 30-1-2006 at 11:32

Methyl Alcohol is sold as HEET Gas Line Antifreeze in the automotive section of SuperWalMart and I'm sure in any automotive store.

DeAdFX - 1-2-2006 at 16:04

Found some sulfuric acid for fairly cheap... I don't know concentration or if it would be useful for chemistry but if you have used the brand before please comment..

http://shop.incomsupply.com/shop/find2.asp

type in sulfuric acid in search if the link doesnt wortk

16MillionEyes - 16-7-2007 at 16:52

Apperantely you have to be a member to use the site properly.
Anyway, do any of you recommend a trustable site where to find electronic balances?

quicksilver - 20-8-2007 at 08:18

Enclosed is updated "Watch List" for chemicals (2007) via DHS. This is at variance from the DEA's Watch List. While the DEA focuses on drug mfg, the DHS focuses on Terrorism.
While some of the industrial solvents like acetone make people wonder at what level or amount does this appear to be a watched material - the best answer would be at levels higher than personal use if not bought by a business.

Looking closely, the thrust appears to be circumventing chem-wep development. This then begs the question of the "at what level" the individual has to be cautious..... My opinion would be if you live in a city or area where you have busy-bodies making themselves into detectives; you may need to be cautious with even the most simple and classic experiments.

Attachment: DHS Chemical Watchlist 2007.pdf (266kB)
This file has been downloaded 2007 times

pantone159 - 20-8-2007 at 13:16

Quote:

Originally posted by quicksilver
Enclosed is updated "Watch List" for chemicals (2007) via DHS.

Following is a version of the list with threshold quantities. Any threshold above zero likely has no significance for hobbyists, as almost all the thresholds are a ton (c. 900 kg) or more.
http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/laws/gc_1175537180929.shtm

However, quite a few limits are listed as 'Any Amount'. Following are two letters, from ACS and American Council on Education
http://membership.acs.org/c/ccs/pubs/white_papers/DHS_Commen...
http://www.aau.edu/homeland/ACE_DHS_ChemAgts_5-9-07.pdf
that explain how this would be enormously burdensome to university etc. labs.

I also noticed that the phosphorus chloride listings seem to be inconsistent, e.g. POCl3 is listed both with 'Any Amount' as threshold and also 2000 lbs (c. 900 kg).

Where to get chemicals

franklyn - 23-2-2008 at 17:16

Feb 11, 2005

http://www.talkabouttheatre.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/messa...

.

grndpndr - 19-8-2008 at 09:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Cappy
ammonium nitrate - 34-0-0 fertilzer

potassium nitrate - 13.5-0-46 fertilizer

urea - 46-0-0 fertilizer

There are several other formulations, but these are the main ones that have relatively pure chemicals. It should be noted that sometimes there will be a polymer coating on the grains to reduce solubility for slower absorption.

Unfortunately, places like Home Depot don't have enough selection to offer the pure formulations, which are less useful to gardeners.

My local ace hardware as well as online at greater cost/paper w/shipping 15-0-0 nitrate of soda (sodium nitrate) nice white prills easly dissolved w/o any residue and works as well as pharmacy pot nitrate for nitrations except less of the sodium nitrate is required. $6-4lbs as i recall.
I would like to find 25lb sacks as this may be good to stock up on as I dont believe that will last, $1.50-$2.00 lb for pyro quality sodium nitrate w/o paper.And such a basic precursor
for a large % of experiments.They also stock SA drain cleaner
called SANTEEN,heavily dyed, adequate as is for nitrations leaving no discoloration/change in performance ive noticed.
You can boil it for few minutes before it turns to a thick white smoke but it made no dfference in actual use. Sold in quart to gallon plastic bag covered plastic jugs i cant recall exact prices but around $15-gallon,what can I say its a small town.Ive also bought new car batt. electrolyte from garages
about 30% SA a little pricey but w/o the dyes and many of the impurities always made a nice product but so does recovered clarified used electrolyte much cheaper but with more work,more questions.
[Edited on 19-8-2008 by grndpndr]

[Edited on 19-8-2008 by grndpndr]

[Edited on 19-8-2008 by grndpndr]

grndpndr - 17-2-2009 at 14:56

Judging by color nice clear yellowish tint Ace haredware in another store has switched to a superior SA called liquid fire in a red jug with plastic bag.since ive posted last sod nitrate and urea have become far more difficult to obtain even online and in some instances the inexpensive fertilizer route is over (sodium nitrate) urea is still temp available for some $7/5lbs.I also saw several gov reports concerning the availability of sod nit,urea.35% HYD PER. etc and imp explosives.Not to mention the tripling of prices fo firearms and ammo sold in large part to bo voters.

[Edited on 17-2-2009 by grndpndr]

Where the govt and here to, help

grndpndr - 21-2-2009 at 07:09

also off topic but somewhat related the state dept is considering the banning of certain imported ammo namely AR/M16 5.56 nato,7.672nato.7.62x39 AK/SKS ammo as well as many pistol ammo's.Ties directly into banning sales of incresing mumbers of solvents and fertilizers.State dept claims hyd Per 35% sodium nitrate, and some others are next to go.

It appears the govt wants to create a nursery style safe enviroment or are concerned the people may choose not to surrender thier bill of rights so easily and the next best thing to a pliable populace is a defenseless one.

grndpndr - 31-3-2009 at 23:38

Best search engine is your imagination by far.Improvise and adapt.Vet and ranch supply,janitorial supply,water purification chem supply.Imagination!And a story to go with it.

[Edited on 1-4-2009 by grndpndr]

hexamine

grndpndr - 16-5-2009 at 03:48

I just noticed tech grade hexamine is again available from, skylighter pyrotechnic supply @ $14 lb + s/h assuming one has a use for it and purifying heat tabs is not economically viable versus gov knowledge of a use/need for pure hexamine. Your personal call on the cost of anonymity vs loss assuming any privacy to lose anyway.? pott/sod nitrate fertilizers are rapidly dissapearing here from store shelves as is Urea and pool supply products.As if that might have any effect on suicidal personality disorders.They do still stock sharp/blunt implements however?

[Edited on 16-5-2009 by grndpndr]

grndpndr - 2-7-2009 at 09:35

Should have done that earlier.(Local searchs)some years back a 'local'chem and janitorial supply sold nitric acid @$36
2.5 liters as I was on thier truck supply delivery route.Another call located sulfuric acid 93%tech grade in 15gall carboys for $151 again delivered.Far more than I can use pickling damascus steel etc.Sadly i dont know of any hobbyists in my area.Perhaps a sale on E-bay.I dont know if there not declaring thier H2SO4 as such to the PO but there not charging haz-mat that I can tell.Problem is I suspect ther trying to sell 93% tech grade as a better grade at a higher concentration.Love to see an analysis/SG.I also see chem suppliers are selling nitrate salts with a hazmat charge when the NaNO3 seems Identical from MSDS and personal experience to Nitrate of soda fertilizer,snow white prills no coatings.Identical wieghts seem to produce identical results.
Easier to find and some say its superior to KNO3 ,bit more available N.Works well for heat treating/bluing metals.Molten nitrate salts have been used for hundreds of years in g-smithing and metal work FWIW.Acids are often used to bring out the fancy damascus grain structure in knives and long ago damascus steel shotgun bbls.Again odd facts FWIW.May come on jeporadty some time?

jwarr - 24-7-2009 at 06:16

Has anyone tried www.cqconcepts.com? They have pretty sweet deals on solvents (1 gal Toluene/Hexane for approx USD 15) but I'm bit hesitant since they also sell a List II chemical (MEK) at about the same price. Too good to be true?

Sedit - 24-7-2009 at 07:17

I don't see the bother in buying MEK but something that does strike me as odd on there site is the fact that Xylene and Hexane has to be shipped ground service due to its "Hazards" yet toluene does not? They also have Copper sulfate under the same regulation which makes very little sence to me in anyway shape or form.

Vogelzang - 16-8-2009 at 12:14

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=12650#...

driedfloral - 7-2-2010 at 17:26

ammonium nitrate, ammonium sulfate manganese sulfate are all fertilizers easily obtained at nurseries, I'm sure I've left out a lot of things sold at nurseries and hydroponics stores so if you have any land grow a small garden
biodiesel manufacture is a new industry that commonly sells sulfuric acid, glacial acetic acid, NaOH, KOH, methanol, pH papers, phenolphthalein
nutraceutacal/weightlifting supplements are a good source of many useful things
ebay
recycling car parts, computer parts, just recycling in general you never know what you can find or make
pool supply stores
nature, plants are full of useful things especially anything in the prunus genera, opiate and opiate precursors in the papaver genera
epehdrine in yew aka taxus genera (landscape shrub/tree around probably 1/4 houses in America)
sorry for my horrible spelling and lack of details but trust me research these areas and you will find a goldmine and a diamondmine of materials

driedfloral - 7-2-2010 at 21:07

sorry for the posting spree and having 3 ideas in 10 mins I am new and didn't realize to edit my post, I will next time

grndpndr - 12-6-2010 at 14:43

Axner.com a pottery/ceramics supply.
Also good stuff!For calcium nitrate terahydrate etc.
Legend Inc./lmine.com, Na-K/tech nitrates, 25lb buckets,50# sacks.litharge,bismuth,tin,silica.hotplates/stirrers..

[Edited on 12-6-2010 by grndpndr]

watson.fawkes - 13-6-2010 at 07:38

Quote: Originally posted by grndpndr

Axner.com a pottery/ceramics supply.
Also good stuff!For calcium nitrate terahydrate etc.
Legend Inc./lmine.com, Na-K/tech nitrates, 25lb buckets,50# sacks.litharge,bismuth,tin,silica.hotplates/stirrers.

Of particular interest at Axner is their page of raw materials. As of a few years ago, Axner is now a part of Laguna Clay, a major distributor of ceramics materials. Laguna has huge presence as a supplier to retail ceramics shops in the US, so chances are that there's someone local who can special order materials from Laguna and have them shipped in with their next truck delivery. This is hugely cheaper than paying for UPS shipping for 50 lb sacks. Admittedly, it won't show up instantly, but there are plenty of times where money is worth more than rapid delivery.

On a road trip recently, I stopped off and paid a visit to Legend (whose web site is lmine.com) in Sparks, NV, just east of Reno on I-80. It's a pretty bustling little operation. I had some technical questions that the manager (owner?) answered for me. (Specifically, of their two kinds of crucibles they sell, one is based on silicon carbide and the other on alumina; not so important for melting, but could be important for reactions.) I chatted him up about the nature of their business. Their main body of customers are field prospectors; I had no idea there was so much of that activity left, but there's plenty of it, particularly in Nevada. My surmise is that the initial waves of prospectors, those over the first century of mining in the US West, just didn't care about whole classes of minerals (oh, say, titanium), and that now the whole region is being re-prospected for a new era of materials science.

Incidentally, the nitrates at Legend come prilled and packed in quite nice plastic buckets whose lids ratchet close and have an O-ring seal to them. I don't know if they sell empty buckets, but they're ideal for storing bulk tech-grade hydroscopics. And if you show up in person like I did, there's no shipping charge, though you do pay NV sales tax.

peach - 24-7-2010 at 13:58

Quote:

And if you show up in person like I did, there's no shipping charge, though you do pay NV sales tax

Pay in cash and visit the bunny ranch.

SHADYCHASE54 - 27-1-2011 at 07:40

Just a quick tip Jd Photochem listed as a Canadian supplier is no longer in business. She shut down a couple years back and sumilarily sold off all her stock.

zmth - 31-1-2011 at 22:01

Another thing one can do as i have done is this. Most of the major chemical suppliers won't sell to individuals and check whether where you want them shipped is residential or not but there are some minor places that will at higher prices etc. But anyway since it is more convenient and cheaper to deal with the major industrial suppliers look for a vacant commercially zoned place nearby , the smaller and less well known the better (like ups etc. probably are going to know you don't have a business the size of a typical wall-mart sized building) or perhaps even an empty storage unit . So now you give that to the chemical supplier as your company address. They will probably also ask for some company papers etc. but one can fake that also - just use your imagination to set up an account and will usually take credit cards. Now they usually don't check phone numbers which usually go on the parcels and the company selling the items will request that and it is to your advantage to have your tel no. on the packages. Now you can get the tracking numbers of your items when they are sent but before they arrive but really you don't even have to do that .Anyway just call up ups or they will call you and say you want the items redirected which is not too uncommon and ups and Fed Ex will usually do it - in my situation they will even call you and say the place is empty where do you want the items delivered. Ups is easier to deal with as you can even say you will go and pick them up instead. Anyway other things you can say to ups is well we were going rent the place but had a problem with the lease etc. or it was not ready as the landlord promised and the chemical company did not get the updated address but they, ups or Fed Ex, usually don't ask any questions - just use your imagination if necessary.

woelen - 8-2-2011 at 23:24

@zmth: What you describe is asking for BIG BIG trouble. Maybe not now, but one day it will turn back to you like a boomerang. This is exactly how one should not do things. This only gives a bad name to home chemistry and makes the hobby even more suspicious.

A MUCH better option is to do your best to find suppliers of chemicals which are willing to do business with individuals. They still exist and most of us still are able to find the chemicals they want. Put some effort in it, and you will find.

Regolith - 10-2-2011 at 06:05

I find the reverse the better idea. A real numbered company can function above board without the cops looking in. Plus if this went bad you can always close the company. It's highly unlikely unless something explodes or someone (you) ends up the hospital following said explosion the fed will EVER look in on you. The squeaky wheel gets the grease sorta thing. About your company you can say it's whatever the hell you want, pottery, soapmaking, heck saltwater aquarium research. Al-capone went to prison for tax evasion (fake companies), not the hugh amount of people he killed/ordered killed.

You don't want weird things happening with packages labeled with danger symbols. Ups in this day and age is probably gonna think it's out of the ordinary for 4L of concentrated nitric acid (marked as such) to be suddenly picked up rather than shipped. Thats what the jihadis are doing.

A real company listed as soapmaking, can't have the cops drop by without a warrant and search the place, no explosion/weird things happening, no warrant.
A fake company the cops will get a warrant just for the fake company and then search your whole house/jail you like Mr. Capone.

bbartlog - 13-2-2011 at 18:59

Having recently acquired two milk cows I had occasion to visit the local branch of the Tractor Supply Company. Lots of livestock supplies, farm stuff and so on as expected. Noticed the following, of possible interest to hobby chemists:

- for those who want to extract small amounts of iodine from medicinal solution, the gallon jugs of Dairlyand Iodine Teat Dip (for milk cows) are a much better deal than some drugstore tincture. $9.99 for a gallon, it's 0.5% iodine. On the downside it has surfactants to promote foaming... some strategies for separation might be made more difficult.
- they also carry (same section) Dairyland Milkstone Remover, which is mostly phosphoric acid (56% of it is 75% strength phosphoric acid... why they don't just list it as 42% phosphoric acid, I don't know). At $11.99 for a gallon, it's a pretty good deal.
- still in the dairy section, they also have USP propylene glycol in gallon containers. Not as economical as distilling antifreeze as it's $25 a gallon, but still not a bad price.
- they have welding gas canisters and refills available for sale to the general public (as far as I can tell, I didn't try to buy one). Acetylene, argon/CO2 mix, argon, and oxygen all available. No idea whether the prices were any good.

In other respects they had less items of interest than a typical big-box hardware store in the US - no solvents for example, no muriatic acid or H2SO4 drain cleaner. Though they did have OTC penicillin and tetracycline ('NOT FOR HUMAN USE' of course).

Nilson - 24-2-2011 at 12:18

http://whatsinproducts.com/index.php

^^ used it to find a product w/ 90% DCM. It was however unfortunate that I misread the label, which said "Semi-Paste Stripper." I interpreted this to mean it was for removing paste, not that the liquid inside was indeed itself, a semi-paste. I had one hell of a time removing a huge blob from my 1L boiling flask.

quicksilver - 10-3-2011 at 11:33

Quote: Originally posted by woelen

@zmth: What you describe is asking for BIG BIG trouble. Maybe not now, but one day it will turn back to you like a boomerang. This is exactly how one should not do things. This only gives a bad name to home chemistry and makes the hobby even more suspicious.

A MUCH better option is to do your best to find suppliers of chemicals which are willing to do business with individuals. They still exist and most of us still are able to find the chemicals they want. Put some effort in it, and you will find.

I can only underline vigorously what woelen has said! This is more than simply true: it is a fact of life! There was a crap-book published some many years back re: drug mfg and this "technique" of "acquisition" was the example. It is SO well known that not only is it inviting trouble, gives the hobby a bad rep, but it also starts a ball rolling down-hill where you really DON'T want it to go. PLEASE do not do this. Use legit means to legit ends. Stay legal, relax and enjoy life and your hobby. Even IF your intent is to assey silver you are finding, pulling gold from quartz, growing crystals for photography, etc, etc.....purchasing materials in a manner that uses sub-rosa agenda will put you in the position to defend a perfectly innocent pastime. Don't let the temptation fool you as this agenda is SO well known that it's painting a bulls-eye on your back for no real reason. It is unquestionably true that IF you put in the time, you will find more than places like eBay to shop for chemicals, glassware, & tools. What's more these places WANT your business. It's just that it's a two-way street. They as businesses have to do things in a legit, above-board manner.

[Edited on 10-3-2011 by quicksilver]

Eliteforum - 13-7-2011 at 14:50

Really? Post google search terms that'll give the website away in the first result. Saves this website the backlash once some nub tries to make meth or enough AP to blow up a shopping centre..

overload - 15-7-2011 at 14:27

It would be nice to find a company that sold to individuals with the variety of chemicals that sigmaaldrich.com offers.

sigmaaldrich.com wont even sell you water without having your own company and your own commercially or industrially zoned building that they can ship the water to safely.

Hexamine

xwinorb - 30-12-2011 at 16:05

I just noticed grndpndr post on the Skylighter ( aka. Cheap Chemicals I think ) on hexamine.

I have used his hexamine for two different small projects some time ago, good results for one, not so good for another.

His hexamine worked OK for a Sulfuric Duff formylation. I think I was lucky here BTW.

I have also tried to use it to make methylamine . HCl, and the results were no good at all. I got a green slime byproduct and low yelds, even after filtering out the green stuff with Celite. I never had similar problems with the fuel tablet version.

I am not 100 % sure about it, but next time I need pure hexamine I will be getting it from another source.

If I am wrong on something here, please post and/or email me.

xw.

DGoncz - 23-2-2012 at 04:53

I looked at Organic Chemicals in the web site given in the original post and found ethanol and butanol but not isopropranol--gas drier on sale at Target, 10 ounces, 59 cents American, usually available at gas stations, convenience stores, and grocery retail at closer to $3/12 ounces. Available on order from pharmacy at about $2/16 ounces. I store mine in the freezer. I've been building isopropanol stoves from aluminum soda cans. They burn with a bright light. I'm adding globes. Not the usual ultralight camper fare.
Some Ace Hardware has vermiculite, a good furnace insulation and for some uses, a column packing. Years ago, asbestos was found in one of many, many vermiculite mines and the lawyers got hold of it. No big-box store will sell the stuff.

TheChemINC - 23-2-2012 at 14:24

despite the fact that sodium azide is extremely explosive, i have heard that it is also extremely toxic......

dann2 - 28-3-2012 at 10:36

Aldi is selling Hexamine (UK) this week. Sound cheap

Why is there two threads on the same thing. Can they not be merged?

[Edited on 28-3-2012 by dann2]

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