Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Acquisition of basic chemicals

Acquisition of basic chemicals

mangoman667 - 10-10-2014 at 21:34

Hi all,
I'm brand new on this forum as you can probably tell, and I've had my eye on making a lab for about 3 years now. I just acquired a decent assortment of brand name glassware from craigslist (the very basic flasks, cylinders, and volumetrics). I've started collecting some very basic chemicals (common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc), but I'm kind of perplexed as to where to go next in stocking up my lab. My question is: which stores are good for getting basic chemicals, and which chemicals can I easily manufacture using household or store bought chemicals? Which are the most useful easily obtainable chemicals? I'm very eager to try my hand at some experiments, but I need to stock up first. Any help would be appreciated!

hyfalcon - 11-10-2014 at 03:55

I would suggest that you start by reading here:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3254

Instead of starting a new thread, search or just look what's available already on the site.

also, be sure to read this:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=19143

[Edited on 11-10-2014 by hyfalcon]

mangoman667 - 11-10-2014 at 07:27

Right, sorry for posting so quickly. I just thought getting it from a real person would be more helpful. Anyways, I'll check out those threads, but that still leaves my question of what you guys find very useful in your own labs, which I should probably get my hands on first. Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

[Edited on 10-11-2014 by mangoman667]

Bimseby - 11-10-2014 at 08:33

It really depends on which country you are from. If you are from the USA, from what I have heard it should be a small problem acquiring some chemicals. If you are from Europe I can give you some small tips as where to get some of it (mostly ebay). Most of all make sure to check your country´s legislation first. As an example where I am from >12% H2O2 is illegal.

mangoman667 - 11-10-2014 at 11:25

Yes, I live in the USA and from what I've heard, only some ridiculous precursors are strictly watched as well as some random elements such as sodium, lithium, iodine, etc, but only for acquisition in pure form. As I'm typing this, I have a beaker of 3% H2O2 on low heat to concentrate to 30%. I'm excited about doing an experiment I saw to get elemental iodine crystals out of iodine tincture.

I know about eBay, but I'd like to keep expenses to a minimum. I'd much rather spend money on good glassware, which I'll probably need soon given that I don't even have a condenser yet.

Bimseby - 11-10-2014 at 12:34

Yes getting the glassware is the other half when starting your own lab. I have been lucky to make a deal with the place I study. I fix some of the institutions equipment and get something in return (and lots of it

) chemicals can be cheap on ebay as well. I can get 25 kg 49% H2SO4 from ebay at a total price of 55 USD. When looking on ebay it is a matter of searching.
You might be lucky finding used pyrex I got a full distillation setup (3 L roundbottom, 500 mm vigreux and 400 mm graham) at the price of 80 USD, it would normally cast 500 USD in my country. So buying used glassware is quite a good thing to do.

Metacelsus - 11-10-2014 at 14:25

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

I've started collecting some very basic chemicals (common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc)

Well, you actually don't have any bases in that list. You might want some NaOH. Bad puns aside, bases are common and useful reagents that you should have.

mangoman667 - 11-10-2014 at 14:46

Haha! That's a pretty good one!

Where could I pick up sodium hydroxide apart from ebay? I have tried to electrolyze it but I don't have a reliable power supply and batteries won't do. I've heard it is sold at Walmart or big box stores in crystal form as drain cleaner, but I haven't come across any yet.

Texium - 11-10-2014 at 14:55

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

I've started collecting some very basic chemicals (common metals, HCl, dilute H2SO4, 3% peroxide, pure isopropyl, etc, etc)

Well, you actually don't have any bases in that list. You might want some NaOH. Bad puns aside, bases are common and useful reagents that you should have.

Dangit, I was about to make that pun and then I read your post!

Also, the Sciencemadness wiki (linked in my signature) has info about quite a few chemicals and information about where they can be bought, if they can be.

[Edited on 10-11-2014 by zts16]

xfusion44 - 11-10-2014 at 15:21

Some basic chemicals that I'm using:

NaHCO3 (baking soda)
HCl (hydrochloric acid)
NaOH (sodium hydroxide) - you can get about 30-40% solution in drain cleaners - make sure it says "sodium hydroxide"
Acetone (nail polisher, but I recommend technical grade if you can get it)
Ethanol 96%
CuSO4 (copper sulfate)
NaCl (table salt)
Sucrose (table sugar)
Glycerol (glycerine - sugar alcohol)
Citric acid
Acetic acid (vinegar)
H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide)
Sulfur (if you can get it)
Various metals
Carbon (graphite or charcoal)
HNO3 (maybe you can get it in farming stores or florist 50%)
H2O (water

)

PS: you can make glacial acetic acid by boiling excess water from it, I tried it and it works fine - stupidly I needed to try It on tongue (it burns alot in comparison with ordinary vinegar

).

[Edited on 11-10-2014 by xfusion44]

mangoman667 - 11-10-2014 at 19:44

Hmm. I went to Walmart to look for more tincture of iodine since mine is running low. I found Providone Iodine with 1% available iodine, but that seems really weak for extracting iodine especially since I spent the latter half of my day concentrating a mere 20mL of H2O2 for the purpose. I also found a "decolorized" tincture of iodine which I picked up because I was curious, and now I'm betting it has no elemental iodine that can be dropped :mad:

... am I wrong? If there isn't any iodine to be had, can I get some decent yields from the ammonium and potassium iodides that are in solution? I'm probably going to have to go back to my Russian pharmacy to get the real stuff.

Amos - 12-10-2014 at 06:35

Really, if you want iodine that badly, the way to go is purchasing sodium or potassium iodide online and making it from that. Hopefully you intend to use it for the proper purposes; I don't know why a beginner needs a bunch of iodine but hey, one of my first syntheses was nitrogen triiodide so maybe that's your thing.

If you looked at the thread posted earlier about must-have reagents and where to find them, I am going to second zts16 and strongly suggest you look up any chemicals you can't find on the sciencemadness wiki. It's written specifically for home chemists, so there's a good deal of information on interesting ways to obtain reagents.

mangoman667 - 12-10-2014 at 08:08

Well, in the spirit of amateur science, I'm just exploring my means of making various substances. The decolorized tincture I found is a strange one indeed... 45% alcohol denatured with ammonia and containing ammonium iodide and potassium iodide. I'm going to try to reduce the iodine with hydrochloric acid and 30% hydrogen peroxide that I concentrated yesterday. I'm also pretty sure that my local Walgreens sells 3% tincture of iodine, so I might check that out first and maybe return the other one. As with everything, it's just for the sake of science!

[Edited on 10-12-2014 by mangoman667]

mangoman667 - 12-10-2014 at 12:35

So I just came upon another tricky substance, potassium nitrate. I think I'll have to synthesize my own nitric acid, but for that purpose I need nitrate salts. I've hear potassium nitrate is the most popular, but where would be an easy place to get any nitrates here in the US for nitric acid synthesis? I checked Ace Hardware and they didn't have any.

hyfalcon - 12-10-2014 at 13:47

Stump remover come to mind. Local farm store will have greenhouse grade KNO3.

Amos - 12-10-2014 at 15:59

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

So I just came upon another tricky substance, potassium nitrate. I think I'll have to synthesize my own nitric acid, but for that purpose I need nitrate salts. I've hear potassium nitrate is the most popular, but where would be an easy place to get any nitrates here in the US for nitric acid synthesis? I checked Ace Hardware and they didn't have any.

The instant cold packs sold at Walgreens pharmacies are high quality ammonium nitrate; You can use them and baking soda to make your own concentrated ammonia and sodium nitrate. They're also really cheap compared to potassium nitrate from hardware stores.

hyfalcon - 12-10-2014 at 17:27

I bought a 50lb. bag of GG Hafia brand for $65.00 at the farm coop.

mangoman667 - 12-10-2014 at 17:32

Failing to find potassium nitrate, I bought some of what I thought was almost pure sodium hydroxide in the form of Zep Crystal Heat Drain Opener. Turns out it's just like the other ones--instead of being a white crystal, its a blue powder with small white beads mixed in... :mad:

it says it contains sodium hydroxide, any ideas on how to purify?
Also I found 2% tincture at Walgreens for $4

Amos - 12-10-2014 at 18:09

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

Failing to find potassium nitrate, I bought some of what I thought was almost pure sodium hydroxide in the form of Zep Crystal Heat Drain Opener. Turns out it's just like the other ones--instead of being a white crystal, its a blue powder with small white beads mixed in... :mad:

it says it contains sodium hydroxide, any ideas on how to purify?

Oh dear... I'm so, so sorry. That stuff is the absolute worst; as soon as it starts to absorb moisture from the air, it reacts with the aluminum bits in it. The large white beads are pure sodium nitrate; I was able to separate that out with a sieve, which I would suggest, but the actual sodium hydroxide is toast. Brands that are 100% sodium hydroxide cost more, and they usually advertise that they are 100% caustic lye, it makes people more likely to buy their product. Anything that doesn't say it isn't worth your time. Also, heed these words: If you are able to obtain calcium hydroxide(often sold as hydrated lime or slaked lime, look in Home Depot, Lowes, or construction stores) which is useful on its own, you can use that and easily obtainable sodium carbonate to make your own sodium hydroxide, and it's sooo much cheaper that way. 1 lb. of NaOH drain cleaner at Lowes was $16, if that's reason enough to make it instead of buying.

mangoman667 - 12-10-2014 at 18:50

See, these are the tricks I'd like to know and no chemical list will give me.

Thanks for that, and what I might do is sieve off like 30 grams of the sodium nitrate since I need nitrates for nitric acid and return the damn thing to Lowe's. Its a 2 pound bottle, so it won't make that much of a difference, but it cost me $8! For that price I can buy a sack of hydrated lime like you said.

Quote:

Is the goal to have a stocked lab, or is the approach to do some chemistry?

The goal is to start my own decently stocked lab, and of course start synthesizing things!

My ultimate goal is to explore the world of chemistry through practice. I've done more than enough reading and I'd like to finally get out there and see and do everything I've read about. My thought process is just about the same as yours: "Hey, that looks like a cool (synthesis/reduction/etc)! What do I need to do it?" And part of the answer almost always lies within the borders of the common chemicals I'm seeking. I'm just trying to save trips to the stores every time I want to do another experiment, and learn a thing or two in the process. I thought this forum of all places would understand my interest best.

Texium - 12-10-2014 at 20:14

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

1 lb. of NaOH drain cleaner at Lowes was $16, if that's reason enough to make it instead of buying.

I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing?

Liara_Tsoni - 13-10-2014 at 00:48

DeboraLabs and Dr Synthetic or whatever the name was are some decent online stores where you can buy resources. Also you can ask chemical departments at schools in your area and search for chemical stores. It's easier than it seems actually

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 06:50

Mango, I also want to caution you with regards to shopping from online chemical sellers. A lot of them will completely rip you off simply because they assume people doing fine analytical work will pay pretty much anything for their reagents. Be sure to check many different sellers and look for technical grades if possible; It's unlikely that you need to pay the extra money for .01% more purity.

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing?

Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly overpriced chemical.

[Edited on 10-13-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]

Texium - 13-10-2014 at 07:17

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing?

Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly overpriced chemical.

The brand that I bought was Roebic. It came in a black plastic bottle with a red lid.
As you described in an earlier post, it did claim to be "100% Lye." It must be pretty pure, as I haven't made any attempts to purify it but it hasn't caused me any problems.

[Edited on 10-13-2014 by zts16]

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 07:21

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

I actually found some sold at my local Lowes for $12 for 2 pounds. I guess it's a regionally dependent thing?

Maybe the brand was different. I was stupid with my money when I first started chemistry, so I'm not surprised that I purchased such a grossly overpriced chemical.

Dang it, that's the exact same as mine! And I think I lied, it actually is 2 lbs, I think. But yeah, it's good stuff.

mangoman667 - 13-10-2014 at 09:20

Hmm... what do you guys think about making sodium hydroxide from baking soda? Very, very cheap input, and all it takes is heating to 851C according to Wikipedia to move through both decomposition stages into sodium oxide. Then you would mix with water to form pure sodium hydroxide. Any limitations I'm not aware of (efficiency, feasibility, explosive reactivity)? I can buy pounds of the stuff for cents in any grocery store.

As far as potassium nitrate goes, I found something called Spectracide Stump Remover Granules for $6 per one pound bottle. The company staff that answers questions on the website claims its 100% potassium nitrate. Think it's legit?

Amos - 13-10-2014 at 09:24

Yeah, it's pretty pure potassium nitrate. It's just not as cheap as instant cold packs, which are full of ammonium nitrate. I prefer ammonium nitrate anyway, as you can use it and baking soda to make ammonia and sodium nitrate. Ammonia is extremely useful and I can use the sodium nitrate to make nitric acid.

Texium - 13-10-2014 at 10:03

I have the stump remover that you're talking about, and soon after buying it, I noticed that there are a few brown and gray specs in it. These can be easily removed with a recrystallization or two though, and then you'll be left with a beautiful, clean, crystalline product.
Unrefined, the stump remover still works fine for uses that don't require much purity, such as making black powder.

mangoman667 - 13-10-2014 at 13:58

Any word on the efficiency of the sodium oxide route? I'm just wondering if it would be feasible realistically. Also, glad to hear that the stump remover is almost pure, I will go ahead and order a bottle. $6 per pound is hard to beat here in Chicago

Brain&Force - 13-10-2014 at 14:29

Man, I was smart to buy that one bottle of KNO₃ in Texas! It's come in handy for my grill-entertainment purposes.

What do you want to use sodium oxide for?

mangoman667 - 13-10-2014 at 15:00

Earlier in the thread I mentioned producing sodium oxide by heating the bejesus out of baking soda to go through its two decomp reactions and using the sodium oxide produced to make cheap sodium hydroxide by mixing with water.

Texium - 13-10-2014 at 15:25

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

Earlier in the thread I mentioned producing sodium oxide by heating the bejesus out of baking soda to go through its two decomp reactions and using the sodium oxide produced to make cheap sodium hydroxide by mixing with water.

I hear ya man, I'm just not sure what to say about it. I'm sure that's the case with others too. Just wait a day or two and somebody will probably give you some input. If not, then maybe some original experimentation would be in order.

mangoman667 - 13-10-2014 at 18:27

Hmm I probably should have quoted the previous poster... still getting used to this forum's system haha

. That comment was meant to answer the poster before me.

Texium - 13-10-2014 at 18:41

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

Hmm I probably should have quoted the previous poster... still getting used to this forum's system haha

. That comment was meant to answer the poster before me.

I see that now. I actually hadn't noticed B&F's question, sorry.

mangoman667 - 13-10-2014 at 21:02

Any particularly good use for magnesium sulfate? I noticed the walgreens brand is virtually pure and has been sitting here unused for the latter part of four years. Think I could use it to make other sulfur compounds? Or maybe even sulfuric acid? What use, if any, do YOU usually have? I'm curious to know.

hyfalcon - 14-10-2014 at 00:08

Dry it in an oven and it can be used as a descant.

Oxirane - 14-10-2014 at 04:42

Magnesium sulfate is sold as x-hydrate. I bought few kg's from local fish store and dried it in oven. It came out half the mass I put it in as.

Sodium carbonate will decompose to sodium oxide at 851C. I've decomposed a kg of calcium carbonate to calcium oxide with electric oven and it works well. But you will probably not reach the temperature using any common gas heater, you will need forced air burner and an insulated container.

Easier trick may be to get calcium hydroxide which is very cheap in large bags, and mix it with sodium carbonate to get sodium hydroxide and calcium carbonate. Separating them pure needs some tricks though because strong alkalis will eat all filters.

Amos - 14-10-2014 at 06:24

Magnesium sulfate is probably the cheapest desiccant around, the cheapest and easiest to find magnesium salt if you need one, and can easily be used to make sodium sulfate, which is useful for separating metals when one of them has an insoluble sulfate. Very useful, all-around. Epsom's Salt is the heptahydrate, easily found at most department stores in the pharmacy section, often in little green cartons.

Now, with regards to producing sodium hydroxide by slaking sodium oxide produced from sodium bicarbonate: The temperature at which this occurs is impressively high. If you think it is feasible to obtain such a temperature for a lengthy period of time (probably several hours at the least to ensure full conversion), by all means try it, but the work and energy required, as well as the drop in purity(you will almost surely have sodium carbonate left, and maybe some impurities introduced during the decomposition process), I wouldn't say it's worth it. You could always try electrolysis of sodium chloride, but that comes with its own set of issues. Probably best just to buy it.

mangoman667 - 14-10-2014 at 10:52

I tried going the electrolysis route a while ago, I used carbon electrodes from number 2 pencil cores and ended up with nothing but a dilute sodium hypochlorite solution because the chlorine gas produced reacted back with the hydroxide. I guess slaking won't work for purity reasons unless you can heat in a crucible from the bottom.

Thanks for mentioning the desiccant properties of magnesium sulfate, I had forgotten about that. I'm probably going to need desiccant in the near future and this will do perfectly

Any preferred liquids for crystal washes after precipitation? I'm using nearly pure isopropanol right now but it fails to wash out powders that are intermixed with the fine crystals. It beads up like an oil and envelops both the powder contaminant and the crystal almost like an emulsion.

Kinda frustrating

careysub - 14-10-2014 at 13:25

Look at Ace Hardware or small/independent hardware stores or local chains. I find sodium hydroxide at Ace and Smart&Final (in California) for $4/lb. Online soap making retailers carry it low prices as well, $4/lb at soapgoods.com. Duda Diesel has it for $3/lb.

Amos - 14-10-2014 at 13:36

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

Kinda frustrating

Yeah, I hate isopropanol for washing purposes. Recrystallization is your best method for purification, including filtering the solution once all of your desired product has dissolved. For washing afterward, I would suggest acetone, as it tends not to dissolve very many ionic salts and it's really easy to recover via distillation. Find it next to paint thinners at hardware stores or in Walfart.

tomholm - 16-10-2014 at 05:24

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

My question is: which stores are good for getting basic chemicals, and which chemicals can I easily manufacture using household or store bought chemicals?

My store, http://www.elementalscientific.net offers a large stock of chemicals, both easy and hard to find. Check us out.

Also, Sciencemadness members get 10% off on their orders. Just enter "sciencemadness" during checkout.

Tom

tomholm - 16-10-2014 at 10:40

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

My question is: which stores are good for getting basic chemicals, and which chemicals can I easily manufacture using household or store bought chemicals?

mangoman667 - 16-10-2014 at 11:06

Quote: Originally posted by tomholm

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

My question is: which stores are good for getting basic chemicals, and which chemicals can I easily manufacture using household or store bought chemicals?

Tom, thanks for letting me know about your store! I checked it out in depth, and you have an amazing stock.

I just have a couple of questions: do you have any liebig condensers with ground glass joints? Also, do your adapters feature ground glass joints as well? Thank you for being a provider for all of the amateur chemists out there, and I will definitely consider buying the rest of my stock from you.

[Edited on 10-16-2014 by mangoman667]

[Edited on 10-16-2014 by mangoman667]

careysub - 16-10-2014 at 12:15

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

...I just have a couple of questions: do you have any liebig condensers with ground glass joints? Also, do your adapters feature ground glass joints as well?...

Just use the site search engine. It is quite a simple search engine, but very effective. I does a simple partial string match against product titles and returns everything that matches. Everything in logically named, so it is ease to pull up all candidate products.

mangoman667 - 17-10-2014 at 13:36

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

it says it contains sodium hydroxide, any ideas on how to purify?

The large white beads are pure sodium nitrate; I was able to separate that out with a sieve, which I would suggest, but the actual sodium hydroxide is toast.

Bringing back an answer from a while ago, I dissolved those white beads in hot water, but after 3 or 4 additions, I began to notice what looks like a blue precipitate clouding up my solution. Is this normal, or is it just because of various impurities?

And on another topic, is there any immediate use for sodium carbonate? I made some a while ago for another experiment, but now I have a beakerful lying around that I don't know what to do with.

Amos - 17-10-2014 at 16:12

If you've got blue stuff turning up, I would guess that's residual dye from the drain cleaner that you picked up, unless you sieved it wrong. I got beautiful crystals similar to these: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8090/8412640755_d13dd9ee3b_z.j...
And they worked really well as an oxidizer.

You can save the sodium carbonate if you want. Making carbonates is something done very often in inorganic chemistry, as both a purification step to separate alkali metals from others, or as a route to oxides or other salts. Carbonates are great.

NOV:5 - 17-10-2014 at 16:56

I'm kinda confused about the iodine thing. I bought it on EBay no problem. I also picked up the "Roebic" drain cleaner because it said 100%, it looked pretty good

mangoman667 - 17-10-2014 at 16:58

I filtered the solution and the filter picked up a blue precipitate. I'm guessing it was some kind of very fine powder of a salt that coated itself on the beads. Anyways, the solution filtered, and was relatively clear. I evaporated it over a flame just now and I got a nice, clean, white powder.

How should I go about crystallizing? Should I just drop in water slowly until everything is dissolved and then let it air-evaporate?

Amos - 17-10-2014 at 17:29

Quote: Originally posted by mangoman667

I filtered the solution and the filter picked up a blue precipitate. I'm guessing it was some kind of very fine powder of a salt that coated itself on the beads. Anyways, the solution filtered, and was relatively clear. I evaporated it over a flame just now and I got a nice, clean, white powder.

How should I go about crystallizing? Should I just drop in water slowly until everything is dissolved and then let it air-evaporate?

Depends how much you have. The shape of crystals I had resulted from me dissolving about 50-60 grams in boiling hot water(I don't remember how much on a hot plate, then turning off the hot plate with the beaker still on it, adding a bit of dilute nitric acid after boiling ceased to remove bases, and letting it sit until the morning, slowly cooling down.

mangoman667 - 17-10-2014 at 18:32

Hmm... very odd... After I added the boiling water to the powder, it dissolved but left the solution cloudy again. But it's not a normal kind of cloudy--it's clear if you look through the top of the solution, but cloudy when you look through the side.

Is this just due to the high concentration, or am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: I also found a test tube of a "mystery compound" I made quite a while ago while digging around my primitive lab stuff.

I remember dissolving aluminum foil in hydrochloric acid to produce a grey solution, and then boiling the solution until it dried to a white powder. The resulting powder is insoluble in water, and quite obviously an aluminum compound. My best guess is that it's an oxide. Am I correct in this assumption?

[Edited on 10-18-2014 by mangoman667]

Amos - 18-10-2014 at 18:20

Not sure what to tell you with the sodium nitrate. But we've kind of strayed too far from the original topic. Feel free to U2U me with more on this or any other kind of beginning questions that don't really require a thread all their own.

mangoman667 - 18-10-2014 at 20:07

Thanks, I've sent you a U2U and looking forward to your reply.

However, will this thread still be active if I have any additional acquisition questions, or must it be closed for going off topic?

Amos - 18-10-2014 at 20:18

Nah, it won't be closed. If you've got a general question about a reaction or where to get something, use the search engine; thousands of us have been here before you, and it's almost certain that somebody else has asked it. For more specific niche things, use the search engine first, still, but if that turns up nothing then come back here and post.

zenosx - 20-10-2014 at 17:17

I thought that there was a very elaborate sticky on this very topic....
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3254

[Edited on 21-10-2014 by zenosx]

mangoman667 - 20-10-2014 at 20:05

Quote: Originally posted by zenosx

I thought that there was a very elaborate sticky on this very topic....
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3254

[Edited on 21-10-2014 by zenosx]

I've already discussed that earlier in the thread. While the list is an excellent reference, it only works if I know exactly what I'm looking for or have an experiment at hand that is calling for something specific. As of now, I'm focused on stocking my lab with basic chemicals that are commonly used. I called upon the community to let me know what they've found to be most useful, instead of asking for a straight list of chemicals because I know they have years of expertise and the ability to offer timeless tips and tricks compared to a wall of text. Thanks anyways for the reference, its just my two cents on why I opened the thread in the first place.

H2O2 One liter 20$

Keith Fletcher - 27-8-2015 at 08:51

1 liter of H2O2 ON eBay is 20$.

Link to buy: http://m.ebay.com/itm/231641411523?_mwBanner=1

gdflp - 27-8-2015 at 10:50

Look at pool stores for cheaper sources of H₂O₂. A local pool store, "Leslie's Pool Supplies" sells 30% H₂O₂ by the gallon for $17 as a non-chlorine shock.

Texium - 27-8-2015 at 10:52

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp

Look at pool stores for cheaper sources of H₂O₂. A local pool store, "Leslie's Pool Supplies" sells 30% H₂O₂ by the gallon for $17 as a non-chlorine shock.

I didn't see that there last time I went, but I'll have to go back and look harder I guess.

careysub - 28-8-2015 at 06:32

Quote: Originally posted by zts16

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp

Look at pool stores for cheaper sources of H₂O₂. A local pool store, "Leslie's Pool Supplies" sells 30% H₂O₂ by the gallon for $17 as a non-chlorine shock.

I didn't see that there last time I went, but I'll have to go back and look harder I guess.

Look for (and look at) the spa section - the peroxide is sold for spas, not pools.

Also look around for "spa stores" which may carry it.

Corrosive Joeseph - 29-8-2015 at 05:50

It's also used in hydroponics. 'Grotek Super Oxy' is 36% H2O2

And as for the aquisition of basic chemicals l've always found this page interesting................

http://makezine.com/setting-up-a-home-science-lab3/

[Edited on 29-8-2015 by Corrosive Joeseph]

CharlieA - 29-8-2015 at 17:55

Cj, thank you.

annaandherdad - 29-8-2015 at 21:24

gdflp and careysub, I just looked at Leslie's web site, and the non-chlorine shock they advertise is called "Fresh and Clear". They don't say what's in it. Is that the H2O2? There are several Leslie's near where I live. Also looked under chemicals for the spa, didn't see anything that looked like H2O2. Thanks....

careysub - 29-8-2015 at 21:50

Quote: Originally posted by annaandherdad

gdflp and careysub, I just looked at Leslie's web site, and the non-chlorine shock they advertise is called "Fresh and Clear". They don't say what's in it. Is that the H2O2? There are several Leslie's near where I live. Also looked under chemicals for the spa, didn't see anything that looked like H2O2. Thanks....

The "Fresh N Clear" product is potassium peroxymonosulfate ("potassium monopersulfate" on the label).

I have not seen H2O2 at Leslie's at any recent time. I have picked up 35% H2O2 at different spa stores though. Go to a spa dealer, or a place that specializes in spa supplies.

Baquacil is a prominent name brand H2O2-based product line (there are different Baquacil products, you need the oxidizer). Baquacil is featured by some spa stores.

I also have Revatop 36 Shock Oxidizer, which is H2O2, that I picked up at an independent spa dealer.

[Edited on 30-8-2015 by careysub]

[Edited on 30-8-2015 by careysub]

annaandherdad - 1-9-2015 at 12:46

Thanks very much. Cheap H2O2 would help me right now.

gdflp - 1-9-2015 at 12:52

I had noticed as well that they have stopped advertising the product on their website. Perhaps they've discontinued it, I'm not sure, but I have seen it in one of their stores within the past month so some store still carry it. Although I suppose MEK Substitute has been discontinued for over a year and my local Ace still has 40 in stock, but that may just be due to the lack of popularity of that particular substitution.

hyfalcon - 2-9-2015 at 01:55

Look for this product at your local pool supply.

http://www.spaandpoolstore.com/4-qty-baquacil-cdx-1-2-gallon...

Praxichys - 2-9-2015 at 07:03

My favorite place is ACE Hardware. I have found the following 46 chemicals at ACE in the last year (Michigan):

Potassium nitrate (stump remover)
Sodium metabisulfite (Bonide brand stump remover)
Sodium bisulfate (Pool pH down)
Sodium carbonate (Pool pH up)
Dichloromethane (Paint stripper, needs to be distilled from polymer)
Phosphoric acid (Deck cleaner, rust remover)
Sodium chloride (Salt for ice melting)
Potassium chloride (Water softener salt)
Calcium chloride, anhydrous (Driveway de-icer, damp-rid chemical dehumidifier)
Magnesium chloride (pet-safe driveway de-icer)
Trisodium phosphate (painting surface prep)
Urea (The bag of 46-00-00 fertilizer is straight urea)
CaSO4·½H2O (Plaster of paris)
MgSO4·7H2O (Epsom salt)
Sodium bromide (Spa brominator)
Sulfamic acid (Sulfamic acid tile haze cleaner)
Oxalic acid (Wood deck cleaning crystals, read label first)
HCl (Driveway stain remover/etchant)
Copper sulfate (Root killer for drains)
H2SO4 (Drain opener)
Acetone (Painting solvent)
Methanol (HEET gas line de-icer)
Ethanol (Denatured alcohol, look for Klean-Strip "green" stuff, ~90% with 10% MeOH)
Isopropanol (iso-HEET)
Methyl ethyl ketone (painting solvent)
Toluene (painting solvent)
Xylenes (painting solvent)
p-dichlorobenzene (moth balls)
Ammonia solution, 10% (janitor's ammonia)
Calcium hypochlorite (pool shock, useful chlorine generator)
Trichloroisocyanuric acid (pool chlorinator, same use as above)
Cyanuric acid (pool stabilizer, useful for routes to guanidine and cyanates)
NaOH (drain opener, 100%)
Sulfuric acid (drain opener, Rooto. ~93%)
Ethylene glycol (undiluted auto antifreeze, needs distilling to remove dye)
Propylene glycol (food safe RV water line antifreeze. Needs distilling)
Aliphatic medium-boiling hydrocarbons (Ronsinol lighter fluid, Coleman camp fuel, mineral spirits, laquer thinner, VM&P naphtha - select the required boiling range)
Copper metal (wire, tubing)
Zinc metal (anti-moss strips for roofs)
Magnesium metal (firestarter for camping, also contains ferrocerium rod!)
Sodium hypochlorite solution (liquid bleach)
Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda for cleaning)
Distilled water (The most used solvent in the lab - probably cheaper at the grocery store)
Dilute acetic acid (Vinegar)
Ethyl acetate (Sold as "MEK Substitute")

I am sure there are a few I have missed. There is also all the stuff with non-chemical usefulness like sand for sand baths and cat litter to help with lab spills, plus buckets and other containers, disposable stirring implements, safety goggles, face shields, gloves, and other PPE... ACE is a lab supply in disguise.

With a few of these things and the right glassware, it is possible to manufacture many other compounds.

careysub - 2-9-2015 at 09:48

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys

My favorite place is ACE Hardware. I have found the following 46 chemicals at ACE in the last year (Michigan):

Potassium nitrate (stump remover)
Sodium metabisulfite (Bonide brand stump remover)
Sodium bisulfate (Pool pH down)
Sodium carbonate (Pool pH up)
Dichloromethane (Paint stripper, needs to be distilled from polymer)
Phosphoric acid (Deck cleaner, rust remover)
Sodium chloride (Salt for ice melting)
Potassium chloride (Water softener salt)
Calcium chloride, anhydrous (Driveway de-icer, damp-rid chemical dehumidifier)
Magnesium chloride (pet-safe driveway de-icer)
Trisodium phosphate (painting surface prep)
Urea (The bag of 46-00-00 fertilizer is straight urea)
CaSO4·½H2O (Plaster of paris)
MgSO4·7H2O (Epsom salt)
Sodium bromide (Spa brominator)
Sulfamic acid (Sulfamic acid tile haze cleaner)
Oxalic acid (Wood deck cleaning crystals, read label first)
HCl (Driveway stain remover/etchant)
Copper sulfate (Root killer for drains)
H2SO4 (Drain opener)
Acetone (Painting solvent)
Methanol (HEET gas line de-icer)
Ethanol (Denatured alcohol, look for Klean-Strip "green" stuff, ~90% with 10% MeOH)
Isopropanol (iso-HEET)
Methyl ethyl ketone (painting solvent)
Toluene (painting solvent)
Xylenes (painting solvent)
p-dichlorobenzene (moth balls)
Ammonia solution, 10% (janitor's ammonia)
Calcium hypochlorite (pool shock, useful chlorine generator)
Trichloroisocyanuric acid (pool chlorinator, same use as above)
Cyanuric acid (pool stabilizer, useful for routes to guanidine and cyanates)
NaOH (drain opener, 100%)
Sulfuric acid (drain opener, Rooto. ~93%)
Ethylene glycol (undiluted auto antifreeze, needs distilling to remove dye)
Propylene glycol (food safe RV water line antifreeze. Needs distilling)
Aliphatic medium-boiling hydrocarbons (Ronsinol lighter fluid, Coleman camp fuel, mineral spirits, laquer thinner, VM&P naphtha - select the required boiling range)
Copper metal (wire, tubing)
Zinc metal (anti-moss strips for roofs)
Magnesium metal (firestarter for camping, also contains ferrocerium rod!)
Sodium hypochlorite solution (liquid bleach)
Sodium bicarbonate (baking soda for cleaning)
Distilled water (The most used solvent in the lab - probably cheaper at the grocery store)
Dilute acetic acid (Vinegar)
Ethyl acetate (Sold as "MEK Substitute")

I am sure there are a few I have missed. There is also all the stuff with non-chemical usefulness like sand for sand baths and cat litter to help with lab spills, plus buckets and other containers, disposable stirring implements, safety goggles, face shields, gloves, and other PPE... ACE is a lab supply in disguise.

With a few of these things and the right glassware, it is possible to manufacture many other compounds.

Some of theses a regionally dependent I think, I have spotted most of these at Ace, but many not (but I will take this list to the store this weekend).

In Florida (but not California) you can also find at Ace:
Paraformaldehyde (anti-mildew)

Also in Florida (but not California) are these solvents:
Toluene
Xylene
MEK

I think both places have:
Kleenstrip SLX, which is about 50/50 methanol and ethanol with ~1% MIBK. Fractionally distilling with CaCl2 gives good amounts of both ethanol and methanol.

[Edited on 2-9-2015 by careysub]

Sulaiman - 2-9-2015 at 10:11

you could add a UK supplier for solvents, acids etc. that I have used;
www.darrantchemicals.co.uk
quick and cheap.

annaandherdad - 3-9-2015 at 09:19

careysub---I found a hydroponics store that sells Nutrilife 29% H2O2 for about $20/gal. Also, Baquicil can be ordered on line for $83/ 4 gallons, including all hazmat shipping. This is supposed to be 27% H2O2. Thanks for your help!

careysub - 5-9-2015 at 22:08

Quote: Originally posted by Praxichys

My favorite place is ACE Hardware. I have found the following 46 chemicals at ACE in the last year (Michigan):

yadda
yadda
yadda
(not an actual quote)

I don't see camphor on your list. That's a popular insect repellant. Maybe they have that as well?

[Edited on 6-9-2015 by careysub]