Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Random stuff I could try?

Darkblade48 - 10-4-2005 at 22:17

I recently got onto the home experimenting scene (though not chemistry experimenting elsewhere, like in school), and was wondering what I could possibly do with any of these.

Methanol
Ethanol
Isopropanol
Hydrochloric Acid
Sulfuric Acid
Sodium Hydroxide (solid)
Calcium carbonate
Salicylic acid
Sodium carbonate
Sodium bicarbonate
Acetone
Sulfur
Potassium nitrate
Potassium sulfate
Magnesium sulfate heptahydrate
Hydrogen peroxide
Ammonia
Boric acid
Ammonium Alum

I've already tried the methyl salicylate synthesis (that was wintery fresh!), and I've tried other minor things like forming a copper/ammonia complexation after releasing some Cu ions with some H2O2, but I was after some other neat little reactions I could do.

neutrino - 11-4-2005 at 01:55

You can always find things to do by searching. But since everyone will post something anyway, I might as well start.

1. Dissolve some boric acid in your alcohols and ignite the vapors. You should see a nice green color due to small amounts of the volatile borate esters produced. You could try purifying the esters, but I’ve found this to be more trouble than it’s worth. A word of caution: I wouldn’t advise breathing the boric oxide dust produced here.

2. Distill nitric acid and dissolve things in it.

3. Mix NaOH and your alum, a precipitate of Al(OH)<sub>3</sub> should form. Add an acid or more NaOH and it will dissolve.

I can’t think of too much else, with all of your inert materials like sodium carbonate. I’m sure someone else will come up with something.

cyclonite4 - 11-4-2005 at 04:10

I second neutrino's last comment. Maybe you could make a fuel/oxidiser mix between the KNO3 and Sulfur?

I think you should stop by the shops and get some more OTC chems to expand what you can do.

sparkgap - 11-4-2005 at 04:20

I may be able to suggest some things to do, but would you mind telling us first the concentration(s) of your acids and your peroxide?

sparky (^_^)

P.S. You've done methyl salicylate, how about trying ethyl and isopropyl salicylate?

[Edited on 11-4-2005 by sparkgap]

cyclonite4 - 11-4-2005 at 04:44

Oh, I didn't notice the peroxide. I assume you were suggesting caro's acid sparkgap? :D
I guess you could make AP, but thats lame, and no doubt you have done it.

Darkblade48 - 11-4-2005 at 11:34

Actually, I read about the boric acid in the alcohols to produce a green flame, but I had no idea whether or not the oxide produced was dangerous or not ;)

A good idea sparkgap, I'll try making the ethanol and isopropyl salicylates, though I've heard they won't be as minty :)

As for the H2O2, it's only 3%, so I didn't bother making AP since I knew the yields would be horrible anyways.

Edit: Forgot to mention that my HCl was 31.45% whereas the H2SO4 I've heard that it was > 90% concentrated, but I have no hard proof (short of someone who has told me they got the concentration from titration experiments)

[Edited on 11-4-2005 by Darkblade48]

neutrino - 11-4-2005 at 12:22

The oxide isn't really that dangerous. As long as you don't stand directly over the flame, you should be fine. After all, the acid (the hydrated form of the oxide) is used as eyewash, so it shouldn’t be that bad. Still, I’d do it outside if you’re playing with large quantities.

uber luminal - 11-4-2005 at 13:58

if your looking for something to do with common chemicals, search google or whatever engine for 'Science Demo's or chemistry demonstrations etc.' Science teachers have limited chemicals and have to come up with interesting things to do, and a lot of them post their experiments on the web for other sci teachers.

Otherwise you could... taste them... and make a list of what things taste like :)

12AX7 - 11-4-2005 at 16:11

Quote:
Originally posted by uber luminal
Otherwise you could... taste them... and make a list of what things taste like :)


Except for methanol (well, not too much), the acids (unless very dilute... megasour!), lye (which just burns, bleh!), ammonia probably, and H2O2 if it's concentrated. :)

Tim

Darkblade48 - 11-4-2005 at 17:06

Quote:
Originally posted by uber luminal

Otherwise you could... taste them... and make a list of what things taste like :)


I'm not quite ready to end my chemistry career just yet ;)

Also, most of the demos that I found on google required some chemicals that can't be easily purchased (like KI for example...unless you happen to know of a good source? :D)

Edit: Just found some Trisodium phosphate that I had in my basement, though I doubt that's good for anything

[Edited on 12-4-2005 by Darkblade48]

Swany - 11-4-2005 at 18:39

Boric acid: You could dehydrate the boric acid into B2O3, then reduce in a thermite with Mg to get reasonably pure Boron. Elemental B is said to be toxic and makes an exellant rocket fuel I am told.

The CaCO3 can be heated to liberate CO2 and leave CaO, add water to form a paste which is Ca(OH)2, which when dryed forms CaCO3 again. Not very productive, perhaps?

Hydrogen gas by HCl+Al, via displacement reaction. Assuming that you can find some Al foil or similar. This reaction can be quite vigerous and exothermic. Be ye warned, boiling HCl is no fun. :P

EDIT: Curses, you don't have Mg. Finely powdered Al, works too...

[Edited on 12-4-2005 by Swany]

Darkblade48 - 11-4-2005 at 19:57

I'm not too sure about the first one (the boric acid --> boric oxide), but I'm pretty sure for the CaCO3 to evolve CO2 requires extremely high temperatures (more so than a conventional oven could provide anyways).

I was already aware of the third one, but it's always a good idea to add to more things I could (or have already) try(ied).

12AX7 - 11-4-2005 at 21:00

Meh, you can calcine CaCO3 on charcoal. "Only" yellow heat, a nice pile of charcoal with a blower will do. Burning out a lot will require a purpose-made furnace or kiln of course.

TSP eh? Could make phosphorous...(read BromicAcid's folley before attempting yourself :P ). Although I seem to recall TSP isn't easy to react, couldn't you mix it with some sulfuric acid to reduce it down to a diacid phosphate (NaH2PO4), or heck, all the way down to plain phosphoric acid, then react it with a stochiometric amount of ammonia to make the magic monoammonium phosphate?

Tim

Darkblade48 - 11-4-2005 at 22:04

Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
3. Mix NaOH and your alum, a precipitate of Al(OH)<sub>3</sub> should form. Add an acid or more NaOH and it will dissolve.


Tried this just now, nothing seems to happen. They both just form a colourless solution.
Quote:
Originally posted by cyclonite4
Maybe you could make a fuel/oxidiser mix between the KNO3 and Sulfur?

I think you should stop by the shops and get some more OTC chems to expand what you can do.


I was thinking of making a fuel mix of KNO3 and the Sulfur, and was under the impression that I needed charcoal to make some good gunpowder.

Also, what other OTC chems do you suggest I buy? I'm pretty sure I got most of the ones that I can get...other than KMnO4, which for some reason costs me 15 CAD (I live in Canada) for a measly 50 grams!

12AX7 - 11-4-2005 at 22:39

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkblade48
Quote:
Originally posted by neutrino
3. Mix NaOH and your alum, a precipitate of Al(OH)<sub>3</sub> should form. Add an acid or more NaOH and it will dissolve.


Tried this just now, nothing seems to happen. They both just form a colourless solution.


It won't precipitate until you neutralize the solution. Or react it boiling hot, then freeze (Bayer process, except that uses pressure for a hotter boil).
Edit: oh wait, alum? That's already in solution.. then uh, just a little acid or base should do it. Aluminum is a weak base so alum is acidic, a little bit of lye should destabilize it good.

Ah yes, I had much fun with a solution of aluminum, trying to precipitate it all... one drop too many of acid or base and it turns clear!

Oh! And run electrolysis of sodium carbonate with copper electrodes. Doesn't seem to be particularly useful, but the blue is stunning! :D

Tim

[Edited on 12-4-2005 by 12AX7]

cyclonite4 - 12-4-2005 at 00:55

Quote:
Originally posted by Darkblade48
Quote:
Originally posted by cyclonite4
Maybe you could make a fuel/oxidiser mix between the KNO3 and Sulfur?

I think you should stop by the shops and get some more OTC chems to expand what you can do.


I was thinking of making a fuel mix of KNO3 and the Sulfur, and was under the impression that I needed charcoal to make some good gunpowder.


Ypu can still make a fuel/oxidiser mix between the two, just use a bit more sulfur. ;)
Although you would probably prefer blackpowder.

Also, 3% peroxide while being dilute, still makes a fair share of AP, you just need to use a heap more of it.

P.S. If your a bit of a pyro, get some pool chlorine (Sodium Hypochlorite) and make chlorates.

Interesting reactions from OTC chemicals

MadHatter - 12-4-2005 at 20:13

Cyclonite4, I'll go along with you on the 3% hydrogen peroxide. Besides, it's cheap !
Darkblade48, if you do decide to make AP, read up on it carefully. As a primary, it's relatively
unstable and can be a tricky beast to work with. As for the thermal decomposition of
hypochlorites to chlorates, you'll find the chlorates more reactive than nitrates. Again,
caution is the order of the day !

sparkgap - 12-4-2005 at 20:44

I was hoping your peroxide would be at least 6%... :( so cyclonite4's guess on my suggestion is out... ;)

You may want to check out the allotrope known as "plastic sulfur" for scientific exploration.

The alum, well... a prank for this would be to dissolve it in the bath water of your intended victim. Said victim will suddenly wonder why soap is not working as well as it ought to... :D Sorry, couldn't resist.

Man, I'm having a hard time thinking... most of your reagents are docile. :(

sparky (^_^)

Darkblade48 - 12-4-2005 at 21:14

Quote:
Originally posted by sparkgap
Man, I'm having a hard time thinking... most of your reagents are docile. :(

sparky (^_^)


That's the problem with a lot of OTC chems, the nice companies wouldn't want us to be blowing ourselves up, now would they? :D