Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Hydrochloric acid from salt and sodium bicarbonate

Hydrochloric acid from salt and sodium bicarbonate

Little_Ghost_again - 5-10-2014 at 14:12

Hi
I read a blog that basicaly said add table salt to sodium bicarb and heat, then bubble into water and you get hydrochloric acid.
I have a bag from a soap making joblot I got, it says on a hand written lable sodium bicarb. So I thought I would try it. I put some table salt and bicarb in a boiling tube (6grams and 8grams) and with a tube and glass tube in water I heated with the bunsen, I got plenty of bubbles but it dosnt seem to have made any acid (aluminum foil dosnt react).
My bunsen dosnt get that hot but the temp was probably around 400c tops, so I have fucked up or the bicarb is actually sodium carbonate maybe? Things didnt seem right from the start, I had read you get bubble to start with then they stop as the gas dissolves so fast in water no bubbles are formed.
Anyway to check its bicarb and not sodium carbonate? any thoughts?
Nothing melted and any gas produced was clear, there was profuse bubbles for ages so i dont know what was going on.

What you guys think

DraconicAcid - 5-10-2014 at 14:18

The blog you read was full of it. Bicarbonate is never going to protonate a chloride ion- it's far too weak an acid. Any gas you get from this would be carbon dioxide from the decomposition of sodium bicarbonate into sodium carbonate.

Little_Ghost_again - 5-10-2014 at 14:47

Here is the link
http://amedleyofpotpourri.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/making-hydr...

I am so shocked that something on the net isnt true!!!
Are you totally sure this cant work?? Mean really really sure? it cant be a lie its on the internet

Scr0t - 5-10-2014 at 14:48

Use sodium bisulphate (NaHSO4) instead.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by Scr0t]

Actinium - 5-10-2014 at 14:59

Quote: Originally posted by Scr0t

Use sodium bisulphate (NaHSO4) instead.

[Edited on 5-10-2014 by Scr0t]

Isn't HCL a biproduct of the synthesis of NaHSO4 ?

I remember looking at the synthesis and was really interesting how its such a versatile chemical and can be used for Glacial acetic acid production as well. anyway sorry if I got off topic.

gdflp - 5-10-2014 at 15:18

Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again

Here is the link
http://amedleyofpotpourri.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/making-hydr...

I am so shocked that something on the net isnt true!!!
Are you totally sure this cant work?? Mean really really sure? it cant be a lie its on the internet

Yeah, I think you're right. I read a website once that said everything on the internet is always true.

DraconicAcid - 5-10-2014 at 15:35

Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again

That link doesn't even have the right formula for acetic acid.

Brain&Force - 5-10-2014 at 16:24

They might have meant "sodium bisulfate."

Amos - 5-10-2014 at 17:30

Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force

They might have meant "sodium bisulfate."

He referred to it as "baking soda" over and over again. This kind of stuff makes me mad; he even decided to act all big and bad as though he was doing something that might have been considered "terroristic". Of course there's going to be chemophobia if people are being told that even SAFE chemicals like salt and baking soda can make deadly chemical weapons.

Texium - 5-10-2014 at 17:43

Also, if you read his bio on the right side of the page, he claims that his "formal training" is in chemistry. Clearly a lie, unless he wrote that post as a joke to troll other chemists.

Here's some more of his chemistry: http://amedleyofpotpourri.blogspot.co.uk/2011/12/reaction-of...
I checked the archives of his blog. There's probably more, he has a lot of posts.

Little_Ghost_again - 5-10-2014 at 23:33

The really funny bit is the comments from others, on the salt and bicarb page someone has wrote I remember doing this as a kid lol. That can not be true (another internet lie!!) because we know that through my cutting edge research with the boiling tube that all you get is a jam jar full CO2.
Although I read on another blog that if your careful you can tip the jar almost upside down before it all spills out.
Show what a NOOB I am....It sounded possible to me lol,

nezza - 5-10-2014 at 23:53

NaHSO4 is produced as a byproduct of the reaction of H2SO4 with NaCl. As H2SO4 is a diprotic acid the reaction takes place in 2 stages.

H2SO4 + NaCl -> NaHSO4 + HCl (In the cold)

NaHSO4 + NaCl -> Na2SO4 + HCl (requires some heating)

Little_Ghost_again - 5-10-2014 at 23:58

Quote: Originally posted by nezza

NaHSO4 is produced as a byproduct of the reaction of H2SO4 with NaCl. As H2SO4 is a diprotic acid the reaction takes place in 2 stages.

H2SO4 + NaCl -> NaHSO4 + HCl (In the cold)

NaHSO4 + NaCl -> Na2SO4 + HCl (requires some heating)

Thanks for that, it helps me understand it. Looks like I need to get some bisulphate then, that way I can make small amounts of acid as I need it

aga - 6-10-2014 at 00:34

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGjd7xxTuZw

Actinium - 6-10-2014 at 09:57

Quote: Originally posted by nezza

H2SO4 + Na2SO4 -> 2 NaHSO4 was for some reason was what I was thinking of.
Quick question, if I was to approach that method, I'm guessing I would first have to render my Na2SO4 decahydrate anhydrous?

Amos - 6-10-2014 at 10:19

Quote: Originally posted by Actinium

Quote: Originally posted by nezza

H2SO4 + Na2SO4 -> 2 NaHSO4 was for some reason was what I was thinking of.
Quick question, if I was to approach that method, I'm guessing I would first have to render my Na2SO4 decahydrate anhydrous?

Off the top of my head, yes, I believe that reaction is correct. I don't see why you would necessarily have to use anhydrous reagents, but I'm guessing that it would indeed react more evenly if no water was present.

aga - 6-10-2014 at 10:20

Bit tricky for Ions to move about with no solvent though innit ?

Amos - 6-10-2014 at 10:46

Quote: Originally posted by aga

Bit tricky for Ions to move about with no solvent though innit ?

I don't know, concentrated sulfuric acid and table salt do a pretty fine job of reacting, but maybe my comparison isn't right.

Actinium - 6-10-2014 at 11:14

also would the H2SO4 dehydrate the Na2SO4 during the reaction?
Just wondering if all that water would throw the reaction off?
I'm still very new to this and learning to balance equations as we speak. Sorry if I sound redundant.

aga - 6-10-2014 at 11:23

We are all Redundant here, so don't feel as though you have to appologise for anything you say.
i'll PM you a bit of Balancing.
LG2 may already have done so.

Actinium - 6-10-2014 at 12:10

thanks aga.

I'll study this and practice. this seems to be alot more simplified than some of the other materials I've read.
I'm really hoping to be starting the Uni back up next term and actually being able to take my Chem classes.

Little_Ghost_again - 6-10-2014 at 13:20

I have only just read this so didnt get a chance to pass on the sheet.