Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ideas for must have chemicals!

Little_Ghost_again - 23-9-2014 at 01:11

Hi
I am finally getting a steel cupboard with lock (given to me from dads work), So I am now allowed to start stocking up (slowly) with some chemicals.
I am sorted for solvents so thats ok.
But what other Chemicals do you consider must haves in a lab?
I know a lot depends on the type of chemistry your into etc, but I am after an idea of some that are pretty universal. For example............

1. indicator solutions, which would you recommend?

Or maybe just list what you consider are must haves in your own labs. I am not allowed Nitric acid but sulfuric is ok (I dont get why that is).

Also I need a chemical that will extract chlorophyll from plant material, I want to take the green out of some mint leaves so I can stain the leaf and look at the strona and grana of the leaf.

arkoma - 23-9-2014 at 01:26

Sodium Hydroxide
HCl
Magnesium Sulphate

As far as indicators, look no further than the flower bed, vegetable garden and fruit stand m8.

aga - 23-9-2014 at 11:28

Distilled Water is #1 - Gallons of it.

Sulphuric Acid
Sodium Hydroxide
Hydrochloric Acid
Nitric Acid
Any Nitrate at all (so you can make your own Nitric Acid ;) )
Copper Sulphate is very versatile
Aluminium
Ammonia
Calcium Oxide (slaked lime)
Copper
Magnesium
Sodium Bicarbonate (also good for neutralising acid spills)

Having a Fire Extinguisher kinda demonstrates that you understand some of the risks.

It really depends on what you want to do.
What i find is that i come across a reaction, want to do it, find i am 1 reagent missing, and buy or make that one.

74 distinct reagents now, and that's in 8 months ...

phenolphthalein is a Must as an indicator, and is a beautiful colour in bases.

Edit:

You should ask about the Nitric Acid thing.

There could be a Good reason, or it may be founded in a false idea that it is More dangerous than say Sulphuric.

Danger might be that Sulphuric is thought Safe somehow, and you end up not being allowed that either.

[Edited on 23-9-2014 by aga]

Bert - 23-9-2014 at 11:49

Your dad may want to see you MAKE your own nitric acid... Or intends that you not easily be able to make nitroglycerin, etc. Best find out which, then perhaps tell him Sulfuric acid + fertilizer nitrates will do much the same job?

Sulfuric acid , "King of the chemical industry".

Amos - 23-9-2014 at 12:10

Your dad might allow you to have dilute nitric acid as opposed to concentrated, if you were to explain the difference to him. The dilute form is very useful for producing nitrates, but concentrated nitric acid has a reputation for being used for explosives.

If you're looking for a pretty reliable pH indicator, Curcumin, extracted with extreme ease from turmeric(the spice) changes between yellow and red at pH 8.4-8.5.

Ammonium nitrate, which may be easier for you to get because of all the farm stuff accessible to you, is great, as you can use it and baking soda to make ammonia(very useful) and sodium nitrate(also very useful) of a very respectable purity.

Some other things, which may or may not have been mentioned:

Potassium chloride(sodium free water purification tablets are a very cheap source)
Potassium hydroxide
Urea
A source of iron with a lot of surface area (steel wool or granules/powder)
Magnesium ribbon/powder
Ethanol(you're making that)
Methanol
Acetylsalicylic acid(aspirin)
Lead metal(fishing weights are a convenient source)
Zinc metal
Acetic acid of the highest concentration you can find(photography "stop bath" is a good source)
A bromide and/or iodide salt (the latter is a potential legal speedbump)
Either phosphoric acid or a water soluble phosphate salt
A fire extinguisher(not only for fire safety, but you can extract carbon dioxide in the form of dry ice from it)

If there are any pottery or ceramics stores nearby, I'd recommend going in and getting small amounts of several oxides or carbonates, especially of the following metals: cobalt, manganese, nickel, barium, chromium.

Leben - 23-9-2014 at 14:01

It really depends on the nature of your reactions. I'm willing to bet if you buy 90% of the above stuff that has been suggested then you won't use most of it for several months, depending on how frequently you are in the lab, how frequently you are doing experiments, and so on.

I suggest:

Hydrochloric Acid (purchase in store)
Hydrobromic Acid (make/purchase online)
Sulfuric Acid
Nitric Acid (make/purchase online)
Sodium Hydroxide (purchase in store)
Ethanol and Methanol (purchase in store, Denatured alcohol is a cheap good source of ethanol, although with contaminants)

Go to pool stores, you can get a lot of things such as:

Various Chlorinators/Brominators/Oxidizers (Oxone/Hypochlorite/TCCA/BCDMH)
Sodium Chloride
Sodium Bromide
Sodium Bicarbonate (Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate)
Sodium Carbonate
Sodium Sulfate
Calcium Chloride


Hydroponic stores carry things like 29% Hydrogen Peroxide by the gallon, pretty cheaply.



If there was one thing on this list I wish I could have above all other things, it would be Nitric Acid. I can only find it online and its very expensive, never find it in stores. Aside from being a strong acid, it is also useful for dissolving various metals, and also a strong oxidizing agent for many reactions. I cannot tell you how many times there was a reaction I wanted to do that was overly complicated, that could have been done in a single step with Nitric Acid.



---

These are just the typical useful chemicals. If your big focus is organic transformations, you will find a ton of great nifty catalysts that you can make and or order online by reading various research papers. I can't tell you the amount of times that I've had some obscure catalyst in my lab for some reason, and just happened to find out that it was useful for a great number of other reactions too.

TheChemiKid - 23-9-2014 at 17:03

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now  

If there are any pottery or ceramics stores nearby, I'd recommend going in and getting small amounts of several oxides or carbonates, especially of the following metals: cobalt, manganese, nickel, barium, chromium.

Don't forget Strontium!

DJF90 - 23-9-2014 at 23:15

Nitric acid is illegal to aquire in the UK above 3% concentration since the new legislation change, but you can make or use it until March 2016, when it becomes illegal to posess. That may explain why you're not allowed it...

Little_Ghost_again - 24-9-2014 at 02:23

Quote: Originally posted by diddi  
want to try a fun indicator? extract the purple colour from purple cabbage by boiling in water. gives very wide pH indication. take great care in storing everything in the one cupboard. its an accident waiting to happen. (eg acids and oxidisers).

I should have been clear on this point, and would welcome advice....
I have two cupboards that I can have that are wall mounted and the kitchen type.
In these I would keep what I would consider fairly safe Chemicals, for example
Sodium Carbonate
Magnesium Carbonate
Potassium Permanganate
Potassium Dichromate
Etc, They can be separated onto different shelves and dont have to be in the same cupboard.
My idea would be to keep similar chemicals together, so Carbonates and bicarbonates etc on one shelf and so on.
I also have some kitchen floor standing units, 4 double door ones with one or two shelves in each. I have fitted padlocks to these and would store non flammable liquids in them, the reason being I have weak wrists due to my illness so dont want to reach upto a wall unit and lift liquid down (in case of dropping).
I will keep Acids in one and Bases in another and so on.
The metal Cabinet has a airline type valve fitted to the side that goes inside the cabinet. The idea was that a CO2 cylinder is fitted to it and as the doors and seals are pretty tight, in case of fire you open the lever and flood with CO2, I doubt its much use to be honest, but this Cabinet will be for storing solvents.
Some of my solvents are in 10Ltr bulk containers, house rules state....and I quote
" YOU are NOT allowed more than 500ml of any one solvent inside the house".
This I have read as I cant store more than 500ml of each :D.
The rest are being kept in a stone and slate outbuilding.
I am STILL building my fume cupboard! I keep changing the design, so far it now has two sections, the left side is smaller than the right and has the fan on low all the time (or will have),this will be where I keep anything that fumes or causes problems, for example if I had any I would keep bromine in there.
The partition is glass and I have ordered some plexi glass (very thick) that will act as the doors(sash) of the fume hood.

All comments welcome

gdflp - 2-10-2014 at 10:51

That's a good idea with having a partition with the fan on low constantly. Be careful though that no metal objects are stored near there;) Also, remember that bromine is a reasonably expensive reagent, so the better you can seal the bottle, the less you lose over the long term. Also, just curious but do you really consider potassium dichromate a safe chemical?

aga - 2-10-2014 at 11:30

It would be good to elaborate on the dichromate dangers.

AFAIK Potassium Chromate is definitely a carcinogen, especially when the Dust is inhaled.
Dichromate less so, although it is in equilibrium with the Chromate form depending on pH.

Pot Permanganate is fine until it mixes with Other Stuff, after which Bangs are (hopefully) heard.

The Fume Hood design depends a lot on it's size.
I made a Sash arrangement on my tiny fume hood, and am thinking to change it to two vertical sliding panes of glass instead.
'Sash' requires quite a bit of Height to be really useful, and would work better with some counter weighting system (the glass is heavy).

gdflp - 2-10-2014 at 11:51

Why would dichromate be less carcinogenic than chromate? Their both chromium(VI) salts, it's just that chromate forms at high pH and dichromate forms at low pH.

Little_Ghost_again - 2-10-2014 at 12:07

Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  
That's a good idea with having a partition with the fan on low constantly. Be careful though that no metal objects are stored near there;) Also, remember that bromine is a reasonably expensive reagent, so the better you can seal the bottle, the less you lose over the long term. Also, just curious but do you really consider potassium dichromate a safe chemical?


potassium dichromate is a strange one for me. dad has always told me when he was at school they played with it all the time, his school even used to sell it to him with a letter from his parents.
he has shown me stuff with it lots of times. Then of course you get to the cancer fear thing................ I already have cancer, so playing with carcinogens would make a difference if I was 14 with years and years ahead, but I am 14 with not huge amounts of time ahead.
Most people have a fear of catching cancer, but the strange truth is once you have it it free's you from fear and worry. What is there for me to actually fear now?
Cancer? Nope already got it
Dying? Nope already know thats coming for me
Doing badly in exams? Nope because its unlikely I will get to take them, and if I do and fail so what. if I pass with great grades then what? university? very unlikely.

My point if there is one, in my case yes I consider potassium dichromate safe, there is nothing it can do to me

[Edited on 2-10-2014 by Little_Ghost_again]

aga - 2-10-2014 at 12:28

I have no idea why Dichromate would be More carcinogenic than the Chromate.
Agreed, it makes no sense.
Just bad press on Chromate i guess.

Interesting take on Cancer - more so from someone with actual experience.
Thanks for that.

Age has a similar effect (depends how your mind works).

Whatever time any of us have is something to be used well, so still best beware things that go BOOM unexpectedly !

Inspired by your IPA chloroform thread, tonight i have a rather warm 5L jug of bleach and acetone next to me. I am feeling a bit woozy, but that's more likely to be the beer than the chloroform.

Metacelsus - 2-10-2014 at 16:47

Potassium dichromate is a dangerous carcinogen, but that is not its only danger. It is also acutely toxic, so you should still be careful.



blargish - 2-10-2014 at 18:36

If you're going to be dealing with Cr VI salts, you should have a reducing agent around like sodium sulfite or sodium thiosulfate to rid yourself of waste solutions. They also come in handy for reducing halogens into their corresponding halides. I guess you could use em for SO2 generation as well.

I really would recommend getting potassium dichromate. It obviously has its dangers but if you treat it with respect its a fantastic compound. Opens you up to all sorts of oxidation reactions and coordination chemistry.

Calcium carbide is a fun compound to generate acetylene with if you can get your hands on that.

Little_Ghost_again - 3-10-2014 at 05:30

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
I have no idea why Dichromate would be More carcinogenic than the Chromate.
Agreed, it makes no sense.
Just bad press on Chromate i guess.

Interesting take on Cancer - more so from someone with actual experience.
Thanks for that.

Age has a similar effect (depends how your mind works).

Whatever time any of us have is something to be used well, so still best beware things that go BOOM unexpectedly !

Inspired by your IPA chloroform thread, tonight i have a rather warm 5L jug of bleach and acetone next to me. I am feeling a bit woozy, but that's more likely to be the beer than the chloroform.


Forget the acetone use IPA ;). its very different to using acetone. And it dosnt get that hot, most I have managed is 10c above starting temperature and that was adding the IPA all at once, also keep the waste solution ;).

I will get some sodium thiosulphate, I used it for my fish tank a few times. Good to know it can clean up the Dichromate.
I am careful (Actually if you read my posts then thats a lie), I will be more careful with these other compounds, but I would like to try wolens chlorate experiment, there are a few things I want to try and alter with electronics :D

I cant get chemicals at the moment anyway, I have run out of money. Its a tough choice of having to sell some of my electronics stuff to get some more chemicals!

[Edited on 3-10-2014 by Little_Ghost_again]

Zyklon-A - 3-10-2014 at 11:14

Can you really not get cancer twice? I'm pretty sure you can.
My little brother had cancer as a two week-old, so my parents are rather concerned about carcinogens, hell, they even banned microwaves ovens from our house - for fear they cause cancer!
Even still dichromate is very toxic, aside from it's being a carcinogen - be careful with it!
BTW, molten potassium dichromate is awesome, I've spent hours working with it.

aga - 3-10-2014 at 11:23

What do you do with Molten dichromate ?

You been on holiday Zyklon ?

Zyklon-A - 3-10-2014 at 11:28

Everything you can imagine and more!
No I've just been really busy... Schoolwork and whatnot. Also I sold my main computer and my phone got stolen.:mad: I have recently bought a cheap replacement phone - it sucks compared to my old one though.

Praxichys - 3-10-2014 at 11:36

Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  

This I have read as I cant store more than 500ml of each :D.

Heh. 500ml of acetone, 500ml of propanone, 500ml of dimethyl ketone, 500ml of beta-ketopropane...

Little_Ghost_again - 4-10-2014 at 02:38

beta-ketopropane
Now there is one I havnt heard of, I better go read up

aga - 4-10-2014 at 05:27

Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
beta-ketopropane
Now there is one I havnt heard of, I better go read up

(they're all synonyms for acetone)

Little_Ghost_again - 4-10-2014 at 06:29

Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
beta-ketopropane
Now there is one I havnt heard of, I better go read up

(they're all synonyms for acetone)


LMFAO
why not just call it one name,its like our dog it has a real name and a bloody long kennel name! Stupid idea

Texium - 4-10-2014 at 06:43

Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
beta-ketopropane
Now there is one I havnt heard of, I better go read up

(they're all synonyms for acetone)


LMFAO
why not just call it one name,its like our dog it has a real name and a bloody long kennel name! Stupid idea
It tripped me up the other day, when someone on another thread said that propanone is the simplest ketone, and then I ignorantly thought, "Ha, someone who knows even less about organic chemistry than I do!" and corrected them, "Actually acetone is the simplest ketone."

Only to then be shot down and then feel ashamed for trying to sound like i knew something when I clearly didn't.

aga - 4-10-2014 at 07:51

I like "Spiritus pyroaceticus" best.

source: http://www.springermaterials.com/docs/substance/DAQRSEGSGRRW...

propan-2-one; pyroacetic ether; dimethyl ketone; acetone; 2-propanone; Aceton; Propanon; 2-Propanon; Methyl ketone; β-Ketopropane; Dimethylformaldehyde; Methylketone; Acetone, hplc; Dimethylketal; Ketone, dimethyl-; Dimethylketon; Methylketon; Propan-2-on; C3H6O (propan-2-one); 2-Oxopropane; tert-Butanol; Isopropanone; Acheton; Acetoon; Acetoone; Acetylcarben; Acetylcarbene; Dimethylketone; 2-Propanona; Acetona; Acetonum; Azeton; Brenzlicher Essigaether; Cetone propane; Cetopropane; Cleaning fluid 9101; Cleaning fluid 9101, (caradon terrain); DMK; Dimethyl cetone; Dimethylcetone; Dimetilcetona; Essiggeist; Ether pyroacetique; Keto propane; Ketone propane; Ketonepropane, beta-; Ketopropan; Methyl acetyl; Methyl acetyle; Methylacetyl; Methylierter aldehyd; Propane-2-one; Propanon-2; Propanone, 2-; Propanone-2; Spiritus pyroaceticus; beta-Ketonepropane; beta-Ketopropane; CH3COCH3; Acetone; Me2CO; Acetecon; Isopropanon


Little_Ghost_again - 4-10-2014 at 08:20

Kind of dosnt seem fair to call nail polish remover after that lot lol

TheChemiKid - 4-10-2014 at 14:42

Isopropanol.

Amos - 4-10-2014 at 15:22

Quote: Originally posted by zts16  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
Quote: Originally posted by aga  
Quote: Originally posted by Little_Ghost_again  
beta-ketopropane
Now there is one I havnt heard of, I better go read up

(they're all synonyms for acetone)


LMFAO
why not just call it one name,its like our dog it has a real name and a bloody long kennel name! Stupid idea
It tripped me up the other day, when someone on another thread said that propanone is the simplest ketone, and then I ignorantly thought, "Ha, someone who knows even less about organic chemistry than I do!" and corrected them, "Actually acetone is the simplest ketone."

Only to then be shot down and then feel ashamed for trying to sound like i knew something when I clearly didn't.


It was me who shot you down. I'm always watching, zts, just waiting for you to slip up again. *exhales deeply*

But in all seriousness, considering that usually the prefix acet- is synonymous with eth-, you'd think acetone would be ethanone and not propanone.