Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Rador Labs - the outreach collaborative!

Definitely do things amateur chemistry related. Don't worry about stoichiometry and balancing equations, as there are PLENTY of videos for that.

There are plenty of videos for that, sure, but I think that having it combined with a video of the actual reaction will make it more interesting and be a better way to teach people since they can apply it to something real that they can try themselves.

Brain&Force - 25-9-2014 at 19:51

Oh, sure. I'm just saying you don't need to make it the focus of your video.

Did you get the OneNote invitation to work properly? If not we can just use a Google doc for collaboration, I guess.

Brain&Force - 27-9-2014 at 19:18

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=4F69734A...

Here's the OneNote I created. Just click the link and you can view. U2U me for an edit link.

Texium - 27-9-2014 at 19:36

https://onedrive.live.com/redir?page=view&resid=4F69734A...

Here's the OneNote I created. Just click the link and you can view. U2U me for an edit link.

Still requires a Microsoft login to access it. Mine is still not working. Trying to recover my password says an account doesn't exist for my email address. Trying to make a new one says that there is already an account with that email address. An endless cycle of nonsense.

The Volatile Chemist - 29-9-2014 at 05:01

Why don't you compile a list of members and post it here. (BTW everyone, not a part of rador labs ATM).

Brain&Force - 29-9-2014 at 13:07

Sure. That would be me, zts16, bismuthate, Tdep, prof_genius, No Tears only Dreams Now, gdflp, arkoma, TheChemiKid, elementcollector1, and careysub (I think).

People I'd like to hear from, as they may be good contributors: Mabus, MrHomeScientist, woelen, UnintentionalChaos, Gooferking Science, and deltaH.

[Edited on 29.9.2014 by Brain&Force]

Brain&Force - 30-9-2014 at 19:41

New video:

<iframe sandbox width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/VG0H5lXT7yk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bismuthate - 1-10-2014 at 09:11

great! Are anymore demos going to be where you are?
P.S. I did this for a bunch of kids and at first they thought it wouldn't work but then it blew their minds.

prof_genius - 1-10-2014 at 09:39

For editing, a student (K-12/Uni) can get Autodesk Smoke, this can only run on a mac and it has a watermark (It may have been removed). You could also use Imovie or get adobe creative cloud.
http://www.autodesk.com/education/free-software/all

Brain&Force - 1-10-2014 at 09:51

Unfortunately I lack Apple devices. I'll still be looking around.

I'm joining the American Chemical Society Student Affiliates, so hopefully I'll be doing a lot of demos! We'll also be getting visiting professors and other goodies.

Brain&Force - 9-10-2014 at 09:39

So I joined the ACCSA...

One of their main projects is outreach, and they visit middle schools in our area. They put on some sort of a play, the details of which I do not remember that clearly, but it involves some sort of a superhero that uses chemistry to save someone.

Anyway, they're looking for volunteers to do demo design, and I signed up for that. So I'll have time to myself where I can mess around in the lab and find interesting things to do, in the hope that they'll be included in

There will definitely be videos coming up in the future. I believe I'll be in the lab on certain Fridays, and I'll post photos here, as well as video notices.

Brain&Force - 21-10-2014 at 17:47

SAVE THE DATE:

Rador Labs is having a Skype chat on 1 November (2 Nov if you're in Aus), the time will be posted soon.

Texium - 21-10-2014 at 18:38

SAVE THE DATE:

Rador Labs is having a Skype chat on 1 November (2 Nov if you're in Aus), the time will be posted soon.

If you're interested in joining the group, you can U2U either me, Brain&Force, or No Tears Only Dreams Now for more info.

[Edited on 10-22-2014 by zts16]

Famousroger - 21-10-2014 at 20:04

How do I become a part of this, I currently tutor college and HS chem, produce micro-volume cosmetics (soap, essential oils, extracts), and, most significantly, host events with the same goal - I did a "learn how to make soap" little event, and I've begun to coordinate with a bar to use a twice a month science event, which are to include a visually interesting procedure with a familiar product. There is a large patio/lawn to allow space and segregation. Essentially, my goal seems to parallel yours. Science, especially chemistry, Is so poorly understood by the population that it is a great danger to us all. It is so easy to lie to the American public in general, but when it comes to chemistry, oh god...and, worst of all, the person in a group with the least comprehension, strongest conviction, and a sliver of barely relevant anecdotal information typically holds sway; getting them all to eat ridiculous plant extracts and throw away their cephlaxin.

Well, yeah...idk, how does one 'get involved'?

The Volatile Chemist - 23-10-2014 at 06:52

I'm actually interested in skyping. I have a skype now... lol, finally got convinced to 'get modern'

When will the time be posted?

Jylliana92 - 24-10-2014 at 03:30

I might attend the chat as well. Not sure yet, it"s a busy weekend for me, but I'll try to make time.

*hopes the chat isn't in the middle of the night*

Jylliana92 - 24-10-2014 at 03:41

Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPo3IxlWhYY
So I uploaded a video and just wanted to say everybody feel free to edit or change it as you see fit.
And if it's not good i can take it down and work on it some more.

[Edited on 20-9-2014 by bismuthate]

I uploaded a few chemistry video's on my own YT channel.
I can change the description to english, write a How To for the experiments shown, and imo, you're free to use them on the Rador Labs channel, as long as you don't claim the video as your own( "I made it, Jylliana is lying", that sort of stuff ).

[Edited on 24-10-2014 by Jylliana92]

The Volatile Chemist - 24-10-2014 at 04:12

Quote: Originally posted by Jylliana92

Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate

Don't worry, no-one here is like that. B&F and zts16 and all the runners of Rador Labs are good people.

Amos - 24-10-2014 at 04:25

For those interested (TVC, famousroger, Jylliana included), shoot me, Brain&Force, or zts16 a U2U; we'll help you find our skype group chat. There's random chemistry and non-chemistry text conversation all the time on there, but Nov. 1 is special because it's a planned date for talk on a variety of topics(we'll be using audio, too, I think). I have a few unconventional chemistry procedures that I'll be doing and talking about on that date as well.

Brain&Force - 24-10-2014 at 10:17

Important note: we would SERIOUSLY appreciate translated materials of pretty much anything. It would be great for our international audience.

A lot of the videos should show how to prepare materials for any projects, as well as disclaimers and safety precautions. It also helps if you include a link to a relevant Sciencemadness Wiki page.

Oh, and the chat will probably be in the middle of the night for anyone in Europe, it seems...sorry about that. There will be voice and possibly video chat.

Texium - 24-10-2014 at 13:44

Oh, and the chat will probably be in the middle of the night for anyone in Europe, it seems...sorry about that. There will be voice and possibly video chat.

Unless we can get enough people from around the world to justify a theoretically 24hr call!

Amos - 27-10-2014 at 06:31

Apparently people from Toronto(not sure who that is) and Amsterdam(maybe Jylliana?) were recently denied access to the gmail account because google thought maybe they were trying to hack their way in. I've told it to accept the Amsterdam details/address, but it didn't give me an option to justify the Toronto one. Sorry about that, guys, hopefully it won't happen again.

Jylliana - 27-10-2014 at 07:04

Yh, I tried to upload something earlier with the password you had sent me, but it asked for a phone number to verify I wasnt a hacker or something.

*And i'm not even in Amsterdam, Holland is much more than that

Boohoo

Amos - 27-10-2014 at 07:15

Well try again, we need uploads! And I didn't say you were from Amsterdam, just the website.

Jylliana - 27-10-2014 at 07:19

I just uploaded three videos(the ones I already had on my own channel) with their How-To's.
Enjoy

PS Amsterdam still wasn't accepted by google, but I used someone elses home town to get in, somewhere in the USA ^_^
I hope that's not a problem.

[Edited on 27-10-2014 by Jylliana]

Texium - 27-10-2014 at 13:40

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Apparently people from Toronto(not sure who that is) and Amsterdam(maybe Jylliana?) were recently denied access to the gmail account because google thought maybe they were trying to hack their way in. I've told it to accept the Amsterdam details/address, but it didn't give me an option to justify the Toronto one. Sorry about that, guys, hopefully it won't happen again.

The Toronto attempt was by blargish. I already fixed that one, so that's probably why it didn't allow you to do so.

blargish - 28-10-2014 at 05:30

Quote: Originally posted by Jylliana

I just uploaded three videos(the ones I already had on my own channel) with their How-To's.
Enjoy

[Edited on 27-10-2014 by Jylliana]

That aluminum - iodine video is really nice! One of my favourite reactions

Jylliana - 30-10-2014 at 04:58

New video

Brain&Force - 30-10-2014 at 13:44

Cool! I have about half a pound of KNO₃ and no idea what to do with it.

The Volatile Chemist - 31-10-2014 at 05:46

"no idea what to do with it. " Hahah, I'm sure you can come up with some ideas!

Regardless, more videos would be nice.

Texium - 1-11-2014 at 06:04

Just as a reminder to everyone, today is the day we'll have our big call. I'm still not sure about what time would be best for everyone, but I figure that we could just have a big call on and off throughout the day, so if you're interested, just keep an eye on Skype today and join in whenever you feel like it.

The Volatile Chemist - 2-11-2014 at 12:32

hah, didn't make it :/ Why I hate marching band
Oh well.

Amos - 3-11-2014 at 09:13

If anybody is having trouble logging into our shared google email address to use google drive, U2U me your own personal email(it has to be a google/gmail) address, and I'll give you access to Rador Labs' google drive. You can also message me on skype.

Jylliana - 15-11-2014 at 08:16

Is it an idea that Rador Labs Youtube Channel splits up their uploads into the 'playlist' of individual members? Everyone has their own 'tactic' on how to make and display a video and it'll get messy if we don't organize.

Amos - 15-11-2014 at 08:35

Yeah, I think that'd be fine. People will still be able to look through our videos as a whole in the uploads section, but especially since some of us specialize in different topics, it will be helpful to us and our audience for more separation.

Texium - 15-11-2014 at 09:29

I like that idea too. I think it's still better than all of us using separate channels, so that everything's still in one place.

Jylliana - 15-11-2014 at 09:49

Something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmvVCumCQjz1EG3qaV-l5...
You'll have to make your own playlist on the channel. I'm not completely sure who uploaded which video.

[Edited on 15-11-2014 by Jylliana]

Rador Labs - 30-11-2014 at 14:35

There is now a Rador Labs account, as you can see. It will be used primarily for posting submissions anonymously in future subjective challenges (more info on that is to come later) as well as being a general outlet for Rador Labs members to use on the forum.

forgottenpassword - 30-11-2014 at 14:36

Great to see more usernames with massive signatures. Fill the forum with crap.

Texium - 30-11-2014 at 14:42

If it makes you more comfortable, perhaps a smaller font size is in order? But really, why do you even bother to comment on it?

[Edited on 11-30-2014 by zts16]

forgottenpassword - 30-11-2014 at 14:59

Because I read 2 lines of text, then 4 lines of signature. Now your post is one line of text and 5 lines of signature. I bother to comment on it because it looks completely stupid. There are numerous forums on the internet completely ruined by idiots with stupid flashing animated signatures. This forum used to attract more intelligent people who had no time for such crap, but slowly but surely the immature attention seeking egotists are taking over. Why not just talk about chemistry and science without thrusting GIVE ME BITCOINS in red in everyone's face and stupid RADOR LAB OUTREACH BULLSHIT COLLABORATIVE. It's a steaming pile of shit and it makes the forum look like it's inhabited by stupid attention seeking kids, which largely it ISN'T.

So that's why I bother commenting. Maybe other people are too polite to tell you the truth, but I have no such problems. Are you here to discuss and share your interests in chemistry and science or to be attention whores. Frankly it looks like the latter -- and this whole thread is testament to that. Don't get annoyed. This is constructive criticism.

[Edited on 30-11-2014 by forgottenpassword]

Texium - 30-11-2014 at 15:07

So that's why I bother commenting. Maybe other people are too polite to tell you the truth, but I have no such problems. Are you here to discuss and share your interests in chemistry and science or to be attention whores. Frankly it looks like the latter -- and this whole thread is testament to that. Don't get annoyed. This is constructive criticism.

This isn't constructive criticism. This is flaming.
I'd love for people to tell us if they have helpful suggestions, but when you go straight to the CAPSRAGE calling our efforts bullshit, you're the one who looks like an immature idiot, and that's about all there is to it.

[Edited on 11-30-2014 by zts16]

j_sum1 - 30-11-2014 at 15:16

I don't mind a short sig. But I agree that this thread in particular is distracting to read with everyone contributing having multiple lines.

Can I propose a stylistic compromise -- Grey back the sig lines so that they aren't so prominent. The info is still there if it is needed but it makes the thread more readable. I think this is a better solution than small font.
I think Rador Labs is onto a good thing but it is still embryonic. I understand that its goal is to get out on multiple platforms which requires multiple links. It might be possible to achieve the goal while dialling back the self-promotion a bit.

Texium - 30-11-2014 at 15:29

Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1

I don't mind a short sig. But I agree that this thread in particular is distracting to read with everyone contributing having multiple lines.

Can I propose a stylistic compromise -- Grey back the sig lines so that they aren't so prominent. The info is still there if it is needed but it makes the thread more readable. I think this is a better solution than small font.
I think Rador Labs is onto a good thing but it is still embryonic. I understand that its goal is to get out on multiple platforms which requires multiple links. It might be possible to achieve the goal while dialling back the self-promotion a bit.

Thank you, that's the sort of advice that's good to hear.
Also, you're definitely right about Rador Labs being embryonic. Currently, yes, it's a rather disorganized little mess, but I think with time and effort and a little better organization it will reach its full potential. I know that most of us are clearly inexperienced with organizing groups, and it really shows.

Additionally, I don't really see the point of Rador Labs members using signatures in this particular thread anyway, so from now on, I won't, and I encourage others to follow suit.

Brain&Force - 30-11-2014 at 15:33

Here, does this help? (I moved the bitcoin thing into the left corner, but then I hid the whole sig here.) I'm going to do even more stuff to my sig to trim it down, if it's not too annoying.

j_sum1, thank you for dealing with this calmly. Yeah, we are trying to get the word out—one of our goals is to give amateur chemistry a voice. I do like the small font idea better, though, as they save space while maintaining visibility.

We definitely are a bit of a mess in terms of organization, but we are organizing a charter to get ourselves in alphabetical order by height, if you know what I mean.

forgottenpassword, constructive criticism doesn't involve flaming or aggressive language. Also, would you like to explain how Rador Labs is "bullshit" without going into full capslock rage? We can use some help with getting the word out.

There are no rules against large sigs here, as long as they don't screw with the formatting. If the mods care to speak on it, I will kindly oblige to their recommendations.

And who even notices sigs anyway? They're well-ignored, to say the least, though I will follow zts16's lead here.

[Edited on 30.11.2014 by Brain&Force]

Texium - 30-11-2014 at 15:44

I cut my signature down to three gray lines, two of which are reduced font size. That's as small as it's going to get, and nobody should have a problem with it. I edited the one for the Rador Labs account too, in a similar fashion.

[Edited on 11-30-2014 by zts16]

Amos - 30-11-2014 at 16:21

Considering really that the Rador Labs account will probably only post in this forum, our competitions, and possibly a couple of others, there's a simple solution, forgottenpassword: If you hate us so much, stay out of our threads and don't go looking for fights in the first place. Why one would choose to spend so much time around "a steaming pile of shit" beats me.

If the cause of enforcing shorter signatures is really that dear to you, make a new thread and obtain some kind of following; at least then you'd have a leg to stand on.

Oh, and Don't get annoyed. This is constructive criticism.

forgottenpassword - 30-11-2014 at 20:59

Quote: Originally posted by No Tears Only Dreams Now

Why one would choose to spend so much time around "a steaming pile of shit" beats me.

I first joint this forum in 2006 on the recommendation of a post-doctoral researcher at Oxford University. He recommended it to me as one of the best places on the internet for intelligent discussion about chemistry, and at the time I was inclined to agree.

Still to this day there are a great number of highly intelligent and knowledgeable members on here. I say only that these branded "projects" are a steaming pile of shit -- not the forum, and not your chemistry/science contributions. They are truly "projects" -- projections of what the forum already is; re-cast into the smaller and more-self important image of the authors.

Do you not see that the FORUM ITSELF is the "outreach collaborative"? It is bigger and better and involves more people than your Rador Labs banner ever will. Frankly I see that banner, and those who chose to fly and defend it -- who have all come to it's defence to various degrees -- as akin to a cancerous growth. You damage the forum on which you grow by lowering the tone of the conversation to the level of "I'm not with sciencemadness, I'm with Rador Labs -- which is better." All contributions are under that banner. "This isn't just a chemistry contribution as a member of a large and excellent forum, it is a Rador Labs contribution." It is as meaningless as it is pervasive.

"Rador Labs" is not a pearl, is a self-serving and ego-inflating "give me money" nonsense, frankly. Why are you not content just to contribute to the forum as though you were equal members of the forum? Why single yourselves out as special members of a special sub-group, working towards something different from the rest of us?

Mimicry is the highest form of flattery, so thank you for that! Genuinely, I say this not out of hate of dislike of any of you, but out of dislike for your signatures and the effect that it has on the overall appearance of the forum -- specifically the dumbing down that it produces. By all means view this as a savage and unwarranted attack, or see it as a sincere recommendation from someone who cares about the quality of the forum.

As I said before, most people are too polite to say this to you; so if you wish to persist in damaging the forum then you will get away with it in the name of tolerance. Personally I had the same issue with the moderation of bfesser -- I found him a rude, patronising and belittling shit who talked down to adults and treated them like children. He got away with it (for a while) because people want peace and concord rather than disharmony. I've said my piece. Either act on it or don't; it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I come here to help people with their chemistry as a professional chemist; just like most people do. If I see that others are coming here for their own self-promotion rather than to help or to be helped then I'll say so -- I only bother to say anything because there is a positive change that can be made. If left unchecked then maybe it will come to a point where the forum is irredeemably lost to flashing animated banners of your usernames; and perhaps the occasional anime character! I've said my piece.

Brain&Force - 30-11-2014 at 23:22

I am failing to resist the urge to respond to this. I'm going to use this opportunity to clarify what Rador Labs is - and isn't.

Couldn't agree more.

I say only that these branded "projects" are a steaming pile of shit -- not the forum, and not your chemistry/science contributions. They are truly "projects" -- projections of what the forum already is; re-cast into the smaller and more-self important image of the authors.

I'm not entirely sure what your issue is here. We credit ourselves as Rador Labs when we have projects which we work on together. We don't do it because we want to promote ourselves.

I will, however, clarify, that we don't hold any reservations against promoting Rador Labs. I've done so several times.

Do you not see that the FORUM ITSELF is the "outreach collaborative"?

Of course we do. Our goal is NOT to replace Sciencemadness - if anything, we recommend this site to anyone interested! We desire to extend Sciencemadness.

Just for clarification, here are our goals:

To encourage the practice of amateur chemistry
To encourage chemistry education
To facilitate collaborative projects between members of the amateur chemistry community around the world
To produce materials that may help amateur chemists with their projects
To end the problem of chemophobia

There's plenty of overlap, but we do many things that Sciencemadness, as a whole, does not:

Tweet or reach out to social media
Produce videos and output raw footage
Run competitions

There are also things that Sciencemadness does that Rador Labs likely will not do:

Run a forum
Accept articles for prepublication
Host a library

If Sciencemadness.org wants to perform these activities for itself (i.e. have a dedicated outreach wing), our most likely course of action is to simply merge with it. We have no desire to compete with Sciencemadness. We just extend to different outlets - social media being the most prevalent.

It is bigger and better and involves more people than your Rador Labs banner ever will.

That's OK. We don't care about how big we are, we just want to move towards our goals.

Frankly I see that banner, and those who chose to fly and defend it -- who have all come to it's defence to various degrees -- as akin to a cancerous growth.

I don't see how we are damaging Sciencemadness. How are we inhibiting the forum from performing its activities? We are not drawing away from its base - we try to promote the forum, because it is a resource that is both extensive, and, more importantly, open.

You damage the forum on which you grow by lowering the tone of the conversation to the level of "I'm not with sciencemadness, I'm with Rador Labs -- which is better." All contributions are under that banner. "This isn't just a chemistry contribution as a member of a large and excellent forum, it is a Rador Labs contribution." It is as meaningless as it is pervasive.

You make several blatant errors here.

Nobody says Rador Labs is better than Sciencemadness (at least not that I know of). If someone does, they probably don't even know what Sciencemadness is in the first place.
Rador Labs and Sciencemadness are not mutually exclusive. All Rador Labs members have Sciencemadness accounts (though this is not a requirement).
We credit ourselves as Rador Labs when our ideas are developed as a community.

"Rador Labs" is not a pearl, is a self-serving and ego-inflating "give me money" nonsense, frankly.

We haven't asked for donations, as a collective. We run the competitions as non-profit events - all the money in our competition pools goes directly back to amateur chemists. I will also add that donating to the competition is optional - we don't put things behind paywalls. Everything we have done has been done with money from our own pockets.

Why are you not content just to contribute to the forum as though you were equal members of the forum?

We do consider ourselves equal members of the forum! What makes you think otherwise? Rador Labs does not have a "we are better than the rest of Sciencemadness" mentality.

Why single yourselves out as special members of a special sub-group, working towards something different from the rest of us?

For hopefully the last time - we have THE SAME goals. We simply bridge what I personally perceive to be a gap between the relatively underground world of serious, cutting edge amateur science and the rest of the public.

Mimicry is the highest form of flattery, so thank you for that! Genuinely, I say this not out of hate of dislike of any of you, but out of dislike for your signatures and the effect that it has on the overall appearance of the forum -- specifically the dumbing down that it produces.

Dumbing down? I don't see how this is "dumbing down" the forum. Certainly we use the signature to blast our opinions to everyone, but a) you are free to ignore them (I thought I was the only one who ever paid attention to sigs!), and b) they may affect the quality of the forum's appearance in some people's opinions, but we are not lowering its intellectual quality.

By all means view this as a savage and unwarranted attack, or see it as a sincere recommendation from someone who cares about the quality of the forum.

I don't lash back at criticism, preferring to take it seriously no matter how aggressively it's presented, but I personally feel that this is highly misguided.

As I said before, most people are too polite to say this to you; so if you wish to persist in damaging the forum then you will get away with it in the name of tolerance.

Note to any moderators or administrators reading this:

If you feel that Sciencemadness is a bad place for Rador Labs to perform activities or promote itself, please let us (me, zts16, No Tears Only Dreams Now, and plenty others) know. As I've already stated countless times, we are not here to take over or replace Sciencemadness. We have no problems if people choose not to join us. We are here for the benefit of amateur science and to broaden its visibility.

Personally I had the same issue with the moderation of bfesser -- I found him a rude, patronising and belittling shit who talked down to adults and treated them like children. He got away with it (for a while) because people want peace and concord rather than disharmony.

This is far off-topic, but I will say that bfesser has probably been one of the best moderators the forum has ever seen. Yes, he ran a tight ship, but he wasn't unreasonable or rude, from my experience.

I've said my piece. Either act on it or don't; it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. I come here to help people with their chemistry as a professional chemist; just like most people do. If I see that others are coming here for their own self-promotion rather than to help or to be helped then I'll say so -- I only bother to say anything because there is a positive change that can be made.

If left unchecked then maybe it will come to a point where the forum is irredeemably lost to flashing animated banners of your usernames; and perhaps the occasional anime character! I've said my piece.

What does this have to do with anything, flashing banners and anime?

I don't care about what this forum looks like. I do like the fact that it's relatively simple and free of the extensive graphics that make so many other forums cluttered and difficult to navigate. But that's not the point.

The point is that there are PLENTY of contributors who have done good for the entire amateur chemistry community. Many names come to mind - woelen, Pok, NurdRage, blogfast25, MrHomeScientist, and DraconicAcid, to name a few (and not forgetting the Man Who Started It All, Polverone). They've all come here and done plenty of good, making Sciencemadness a respectable community. I can't say I've been a major contributor to this site, but I know that I want to help any way I can, and this is a sentiment that all of us at Rador share.

Of course we don't want to look like a complete and utter joke. But then again, we are not a community of professionals. For many of us, this is just a hobby. We goof off, have fun, get into flame wars; act a little kewlish. We all have different interests, but amateur chemistry unites us all. We don't behave by a set of strict rules, we behave by a culture (which, I might add, CAN and WILL change, for better or worse). Sure, if we do happen to break forum rules, or the whole community thinks we have a terrible idea that will ruin the state of amateur science and we see evidence of it, we'll reduce our involvement here and rethink our goals. We don't hide problems. But our actions are for the benefit of the community, and as long as we see that we are not harming it, we are here to stay.

The Volatile Chemist - 1-12-2014 at 13:37

I don't entirely agree with B&F about the existence of such a 'Rador Labs', and I have discussed such privately with him (and thus I agree with a few things forgottenpassword stated), but Rador Labs has profit, and what you typed above is a fine FAQ, Mission statement, and outreach poster for your 'Rador Labs'. I certainly don't think this thread is the place for discussion.
Besides, not everyone can be a woelen. He seems the most 'together' in regards to what he does, but not everyone is like him.
Forgottenpassword, you have a good point on 'subprojects' of the SM forum. The main reason I can see for sub-projects is for better organization. I attempted to start such things as a forum and wiki for chemistry a few years back, before I was on the forum, but no-one visited them, of course. Everyone wants to have their own project. It's natural. Obviously you are a grown - up adult from the chemistry field, while we are not, so you find us as repulsive and 'lesser'. But don't spew such comments as the above at us.

[Edited on 12-1-2014 by The Volatile Chemist]
But, really, the fact you have an account for rador labs is, well, kind-of stupid. Just make someone the head of Rador labs and have them post announcements, or GET A WEBSITE for crying out loud!

[Edited on 12-1-2014 by The Volatile Chemist]

Brain&Force - 1-12-2014 at 13:58

We're actually putting together a charter for all the rules and we hope to have a website sometime early next year! If only there were a free way to get a domain name...

bismuthate - 1-12-2014 at 17:30

I am rather concerned though. If anybody doesn't like rador labs or something about rador labs please don't hesitate to speak up (in a less hostile way hopefully).

Mesa - 1-12-2014 at 20:05

I'm kinda lost as to how forgottenpassword came to some of the conclusions he did. I've glanced over probably most of the Rador labs labelled threads since it's inception(may have missed one or two) and got the polar opposite impression regarding the mentality/philosophy behind it.

My impression was that they identified themselves as SciMad members(i.e. I completely missed any overtones of an "us versus you" mentality) trying to promote more discussion on these forums through the various projects/challenges.

That being said, B&F's last post does alter my assumptions somewhat.

Texium - 1-12-2014 at 20:59

Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist

But, really, the fact you have an account for rador labs is, well, kind-of stupid. Just make someone the head of Rador labs and have them post announcements, or GET A WEBSITE for crying out loud!

There is a definite purpose for that account actually. Some of the future competitions that we will run involve more subjectively judged entries than the one currently active that must be submitted anonymously, and thus, Rador Labs members who are not involved in the competition may use that account to post those submissions in a neutral manner. That is the primary reason it was created, and we did discuss it in the Skype group (which you are in). I was just saying in that earlier post that it could be used for other stuff too. Also... am I mistaken that you were one of the two people, along with B&F, who originally suggested the creation of Rador Labs? I realize that you aren't super involved now, but why is it that you all the sudden act like you have nothing to do with it?

Texium - 1-12-2014 at 21:08

Quote: Originally posted by Mesa

I'm kinda lost as to how forgottenpassword came to some of the conclusions he did. I've glanced over probably most of the Rador labs labelled threads since it's inception(may have missed one or two) and got the polar opposite impression regarding the mentality/philosophy behind it.

My impression was that they identified themselves as SciMad members(i.e. I completely missed any overtones of an "us versus you" mentality) trying to promote more discussion on these forums through the various projects/challenges.

I'm happy to hear that you got that impression. That's what we were going for. As said previously, it isn't some exclusive club. In fact, anyone who is interested can join.

Quote: Originally posted by Mesa

That being said, B&F's last post does alter my assumptions somewhat.

If you're referring to the website, it's something we need as a better hub than for the organization than this thread. A lot of people on Sciencemadness have personal websites or blogs where they post information about their projects, so think about it like that, except for a group instead of a single person.

Brain&Force - 1-12-2014 at 21:25

I'm thinking of using the site as a compendium for amateur chemistry. There will be plenty of SM references on the site, as well as recommendations of things to do and see. Basically I envision us as a stepping stone to the cutting edge of amateur chemistry.

The reasoning for the charter is to a) organize our activities and b) have things set up if we turn ourselves into a real-life organization, which I just might do, if there is enough interest.

Of course, these are my ideas, I don't know what others think.

We are still SM members. We have ZERO us vs. them mentality - it's more like us and even more of us. We're just another extension to the amateur chemistry community..

Mesa - 1-12-2014 at 23:31

I wasn't meaning to imply anything negative with that comment, only that the announcement/intent is new information that wasn't immediately apparent.

Jylliana - 2-12-2014 at 00:38

I like the idea of a website, but I think we should also state that we are SciMad members, as equals.
I am on another large forum which is recommended in various books on the forum subject and also is well-known all over the (Dutch) internet. Does that make those books, the fact that people wrote a book about the subject, make them better than the forum? IMO no, because they state that's the place that 'taught' them.

Rador Labs started on SciMad, and the whole project is grateful for such a treasured place like this forum. We say that in our video's. It's just another branch(/twig for now

) in the giant tree that is amateur chemistry.

Imo no need for hostility.

[Edited on 2-12-2014 by Jylliana]

Praxichys - 2-12-2014 at 07:43

Thoughts about Rador Labs

Things that RL is good for:

- Getting the armchair chemists to actually get to the lab
- Giving members reasons to contribute
- Creating more threads with people posting things they've done rather than things they plan to do (which is a problem these days...)
- Funding small labs through redistribution of donations and science supplies to participants

Things that RL can do that will anger people:

- RL SHOULD NOT turn a profit from this. Not only is this illegal (unless you want to fill out the tax forms), but is unnecessary and selfish.
- RL should be a way for members to get their work seen, as individuals. Nobody wants to de-brand their own work for the Rador Labs name. There's no incentive.
- RL needs patience, and a system of government. Our last challenge was a farce. It was poorly thought out, ill-researched, released a day early under a different title, and the rules have been open for editing since it began.

RL = Sciencemadness

What really is RL? RL is SM. It just uses a different name to make decisions independently from the people who own this website physically. The data therein is owned and shared by the members - without members, there is no board. If the SM members who call themselves Rador Labs want to host a challenge on SM, why not call it a "ScienceMadness challenge?" Rador Labs is really just the "ScienceMadness Outreach Program." If RL drafted a charter and had standard modes of operation, we could easily convince SM owners that we have the sense to run such a program properly, on behalf of SM, as the SM members we are. Heck, we already have the SM wiki going strong. As members, we all have a say in which direction this place goes. Let us continue with this enthusiasm, with real proposals for change, without having to hide. It will come as a benefit to everybody. In the meantime, RL will have to prove both useful to SM and also independent from SM to stay afloat as a separate entity. Remember that a team is greater than the sum of its parts, and if we want to set the pace for ALL online amateur chemistry, it might be better to keep this enthusiasm with SM. We just need to structure something to create these positions of leadership in order to focus the enthusiasm towards useful endeavors.

For the Old Folks

I think many of the older (2009 and less) members, myself included, are becoming frustrated with the change in quality of the posts on this board. It seems that younger folks no longer have the fortitude to think before they speak. I remember being afraid to post anything unless it was useful, and it was good. The forum now is much more like a chat room than the real collaboration it used to be, filled with one-phrase posts containing simple opinion or an already-answered or google-ready question with no useful content.

Maybe we are a little jaded by the glory days of the internet. Maybe we are all just getting old, and are coming down with the "darn kids these days" syndrome. Either way, we should be trying to correct it rather than just be mad at it, and I think Rador Labs could do that. Face the facts - They will choose their own direction unless some heavy-hitters get involved to keep hem in a direction that benefits everybody, old folks included. They need the experience, and we need post quality to improve. If Rador Labs can capture the attention of the young folks and show them the gratification that comes with posting a writeup, or posting some information that can be of use, then I am all for it. Let us take control of the situation by supporting their motives, set standards by example, keep the inexperienced safe, and above all keep ourselves worthy to be looked up to.

For the supermods: Member Publications and The Versuchschemie/Lambdasyn model

The Germans have it right. We need to start publishing the "prepublication" section. I notice that nothing has been contributed to "member publications" for many years. Why not open that up? Table out the HTML for "title", "author(s)", and "notes" and accept submissions. I know of many great writeups, lost deep inside threads, that I am sure would make shining examples of the hard work our members put into their hobby and this board. If Brain&Force wants a project, let him dig through threads, .pdf all the writeups with pretty pictures, and publish them by post author, "prepared by B&F", or "RL" or whatever. (Assuming the original author is no longer around)

@ B&F

Be careful where you trod with your "compendium for amateur chemistry." I recall an earlier attempt that was made here on SM which caught much criticism and ended badly. That said, I like the idea of separating synthesis and references from general congratulatory/speculatory discussion. You just need to find a way to do it while treading on the fewest feet. We already have a section on SM for this (see above) which has fallen into disuse, and I seen no reason why the compendium should not end up there. If it came down to it, RL could repeat published experiments and write them up more completely for publication elsewhere. Realistically, it is not going to go down well to publish a website as an index of another.

[Edited on 2-12-2014 by Praxichys]

Brain&Force - 2-12-2014 at 10:48

Thoughts about Rador Labs

Things that RL is good for:

- Getting the armchair chemists to actually get to the lab
- Giving members reasons to contribute
- Creating more threads with people posting things they's done rather than things they plan to do (which is a problem these days...)
- Funding small labs through redistribution of donations and science supplies to participants

Yup, pretty much. (Although I am guilty of being an armchair chemist - it sucks to do chem where I live.)

Things that RL can do that will anger people:

- RL SHOULD NOT turn a profit from this. Not only is this illegal (unless you want to fill out the tax forms), but is unnecessary and selfish.
- RL should be a way for members to get their work seen, as individuals. Nobody wants to de-brand their own work for the Rador Labs name. There's no incentive.
- RL needs patience, and a system of government. Our last challenge was a farce. It was poorly thought out, ill-researched, released a day early under a different title, and the rules have been open for editing since it began.

Rador Labs will not turn a profit off of anything. We may need to register ourselves as a nonprofit organization, if necessary, but as of now that's not even important.
Completely agreed - we use this to promote amateur chemistry as a whole - not individuals.
We're currently working on a charter with regulations and things. Some stuff is OK, but we still need input. We also NEED meetings on Skype and other places. All of our communications are disorganized.
I admit, I screwed up a few things with the challenge. I did say 15 November at 0000 UTC - which just happens to be the 14th for us, and I should have clarified it beforehand. I think we need to have an independent, dedicated group of challenge organizers, as well as a rules freeze when the challenge starts. We're already working on a competition right now - this one should be much clearer and easier to handle.

RL = Sciencemadness

What really is RL? RL is SM. It just uses a different name to make decisions independently from the people who own this website physically. The data therein is owned and shared by the members - without members, there is no board. If the SM members who call themselves Rador Labs want to host a challenge on SM, why not call it a "ScienceMadness challenge?" Rador Labs is really just the "ScienceMadness Outreach Program." If RL drafted a charter and had standard modes of operation, we could easily convince SM owners that we have the sense to run such a program properly, on behalf of SM, as the SM members we are. Heck, we already have the SM wiki going strong. As members, we all have a say in what direction this place goes. Let us continue with this enthusiasm, with real proposals for change, without having to hide. It will come as a benefit to everybody. In the meantime, RL will have to prove both useful to SM and also independent from SM to stay afloat as a separate entity. Remember that a team is greater than the sum of its parts, and if we want to set the pace for ALL online amateur chemistry, it might be better to keep this enthusiasm with SM. We just need to structure something to create these positions of leadership in order to focus the enthusiasm towards useful endeavors.

And again, this is why we're drafting a charter. I decided to just separate ourselves because we aren't Sciencemadness mods or admins, and we make decisions independently. If everyone wants us to be Sciencemadness's dedicated outreach wing, we can be so.

The only thing is that I may get some members in this project who aren't on SM (though I will encourage them to join).

For the Old Folks

I think many of the older (2009 and less) members, myself included, are becoming frustrated with the change in quality of the posts on this board. It seems that younger folks no longer have the fortitude to think before they speak. I remember being afraid to post anything unless it was useful, and it was good. The forum now is much more like a chat room than the real collaboration it used to be, filled with one-phrase posts containing simple opinion or an already-answered or google-ready question with no useful content.

Maybe we are a little jaded by the glory days of the internet. Maybe we are all just getting old, and are coming down with the "darn kids these days" syndrome. Either way, we should be trying to correct it rather than just be mad at it, and I think Rador Labs could DO that. Face the facts - They will choose their own direction unless some heavy-hitters get involved to keep hem in a direction that benefits everybody, old folks included. They need the experience, and we need post quality to improve. If Rador Labs can capture the attention of the young folks and show them the gratification that comes with posting a writeup, or posting some information that can be of use, then I am all for it. Let us take control of the situation by creating the standard, and keeping ourselves worthy to be looked up to.

I apologize for my crappier posts in general...

Yeah, hopefully we can show the benefits of having large, detailed write-ups. I also hope having an SM skype group will help move the more chatty things to the thread, and keep the serious discussion on the forum.

For the supermods: Member Publications and The Versuchschemie/Lambdasyn model

The Germans have it right. We need to start publishing the "prepublication" section. I notice that nothing has been contributed to "member publications" for many years. Why not open that up? Table out the HTML for "title", "author(s)", and "notes" and accept submissions. I know of many great writeups, lost deep inside threads, that I am sure would make shining examples of the hard work our members put into their hobby and this board. If Brain&Force wants a project, let him dig through threads, .pdf all the writeups with pretty pictures, and publish them by post author, "prepared by B&F", or "RL" or whatever. (Assuming the original author is no longer around)

Totally agree! This isn't specifically Rador Labs stuff, I would say, but I'd like to see us recompile syntheses and things, no matter how simple.