HoH - 2-3-2014 at 22:49
There seems to be some confusion on my end, what the following list details and what it means for the home hobbyist should he be in possession of a
small amount of any one of the following chemicals listed.
I take issue with this list. Elemental iodine, which I am aware is used in the reduction of ephedrine/psudoephedrine after being mixed with red
phosphorus to produce HI and reduce the best allergy medication on earth, to something deemed evil despite it being readily available at Walgreens and
every other big bog pharmacy for 700 USD a month. #Desoxyn.
Despite knowing this.. I still don't see how to you could make it illegal for someone like myself to procure a small amount of elemental iodine,
perhaps from KI, for use in developing TLC plates! 
This is one of the oldest uses of I2 in chemistry. The I2 vapors are allowed to be exposed to a TLC plate needing development. This is done in a
confined area where a small amount of elemental iodine is present and allowed to slowly fume and stains the TLC plate where the component has
traveled. You can do this in a beaker and then collect the iodine by sublimation by placing a glass watch glass with ice on top, over the top.
This I2 stain on the TLC plate identifies the distance the component traveled without the use of expensive uv lights.
List I Chemicals: These chemicals are designated as those that are used in the manufacture of the controlled substances and are important
to the manufacture of the substances.
*Anthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
*Benzaldehyde
*Benzyl cyanide
*gamma-Butyrolactone
*Ephedrine its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*Ergocristine and its salts
*Ergonovine and its salts
*Ergotamine and its salts
*Ethylamine and its salts
*Hydroiodic acid
*Hypophosphorous acid and its salts (including ammonium hypophosphite, calcium hypophosphite, iron hypophosphite, potassium
hypophosphite, manganese hypophosphite, magnesium hypophosphite and sodium hypophosphite)[1][2]
*Iodine, including elemental iodine crystals and chemical mixtures containing greater than 2.2% concentration of iodine (e.g., strong
iodine tincture and Lugol's iodine)[3]
*Isosafrole
*Methylamine and its salts
*N-Methylephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*N-Methylpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*N-Acetylanthranilic acid, its esters, and its salts
*Nitroethane
*Norpseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*Phenylacetic acid, its esters, and its salts
*Phenylpropanolamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*Phosphorus (white ("yellow") or red allotropes)[1][2]
*Piperidine and its salts
*Piperonal
*N-phenethyl-4-piperidone
*Propionic anhydride
*3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone
*Pseudoephedrine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of optical isomers
*Safrole
List II chemicals: These chemicals are designated as those that are used in the manufacture of the controlled substances.
*Acetic anhydride
*Acetone
*Benzyl chloride
*2-butanone (or methyl ethyl ketone or MEK)
*Diethyl ether
*Hydrochloric acid (including anhydrous hydrogen chloride)[4]
*Potassium permanganate
*Methyl isobutyl ketone (MIBK)[4]
*Sodium permanganate[5]
*Sulfuric acid[4]
*Toluene
Special Surveillance List
Chemicals:[6] All listed chemicals as specified in 21 CFR 1310.02 (a) or (b). This includes all chemical mixtures and all over-the-counter
(OTC) products and dietary supplements which contain a listed chemical, regardless of their dosage form or packaging and regardless of whether the
chemical mixture, drug product or dietary supplement is exempt from regulatory controls.
*Ammonia gas
*Ammonium formate
*Bromobenzene
*Carbonyldiimidazole
*Cyclohexanone
*1,1-Dichloro-1-fluoroethane (e.g. freon 141B)
*Diethylamine and its salts
*2,5-Dimethoxyphenethylamine and its salts
*Formamide
*Formic acid
*Lithium metal
*Lithium aluminum hydride
*Magnesium metal (turnings)
*Mercuric chloride
*N-Methylformamide
*Organomagnesium halides (Grignard reagents) (e.g. ethylmagnesium bromide and phenylmagnesium bromide)
*Phenylethanolamine and its salts
*Phosphorus pentachloride
*Potassium dichromate
*Pyridine and its salts
*Sodium dichromate
*Sodium metal
*Thionyl chloride
*ortho-Toluidine
*Trichloromonofluoromethane (e.g. freon-11, carrene-2)
*1,1,2-Trichloro-1,2,2-trifluoroethane (e.g. freon 113)
Perhaps someone could elaborate given the situation I laid out above. I am a guy who relies on I2 to develop TLC plates. Does this legislation
supersede the advancement of science? Must I convert to using uv lights? Where can I get one cheap? Last one I bought was a handheld and I paid nearly
200 bucks for it! Surely they are cheaper?
Chemosynthesis - 3-3-2014 at 00:48
I think everyone on the forum wishes there were an alternative to the current state of affairs over the types of lists in question... that said, the
only pharmacy I have noticed Desoxyn in to date is a hospital pharmacy associated with clinical research on the substance. Then again... I haven't
exactly been looking.
hyfalcon - 3-3-2014 at 03:27
Magnesium metal (turnings), and Potassium dichromate. Oh, oh. I didn't realize I was in violation with THAT. I've also got a pound of KI.
Zyklon-A - 3-3-2014 at 04:52
Where do you live? Iodine isn't illegal, just controlled, you can still buy up to 30 grams in the US.
Formic acid
Lithium metal
Lithium aluminum hydride
Magnesium metal (turnings)
Mercuric chloride
Acetic anhydride
Sulfuric acid[4]
Toluene
Potassium permanganate
Sodium dichromate
Sodium metal
ect.
I can get all these. (Plus many more, doesn't mean I have them all, but I can get them.
[Edited on 3-3-2014 by Zyklonb]
warteo - 3-3-2014 at 05:46
I too feel your frustration and confusion. Legislation here in Victoria, Australia is so badly worded that it appears to indicate that Sodium chloride (among many other things) is a
schedule 1 precursor. It lists Sodium metal as schedule 1 and defines a precursor as (bold is my emphasis):
"In these Regulations—
precursor chemical means a substance (including
its salts, derivatives, isomers, analogues and
homologues) that may be used in the
preparation of a drug of dependence, whether
or not the substance is contained in, or mixed
with, another substance."
You'll also notice in that list other insanity such as more than 0.5g of Platinum being a prescribed quantity of a precursor. No way I'll be giving up
the few grams of platinum in my wedding ring without a fight. There are many people with such jewelry and others with investment bullion who are
equally "guilty" of breaking this law.
Imagine 2 people, one with 1kg of iodine sitting on a shelf, the other with 1kg of platinum (I wish!) locked in a safe. The person with the platinum
has exceeded the allowed limit by 2000 times, the one with the I2 is only 40 times over. Yet the law is apparently selectively applied and therefore
even in the absence of any other wrongdoing only the owner of the iodine has anything to worry about if the police come knocking.
One advantage of the inconsistencies is that it may provide something for a good lawyer to work with if anyone in Victoria gets in trouble.
"Your Honour, it has come to my attention that the local supermarket is now selling 2kg bags of NaCl, a salt of Sodium, also a schedule 1 precursor.
When we're done screwing this guy over shall we also prosecute them and their customers?"
[Edited on 3-3-2014 by warteo]
Praxichys - 3-3-2014 at 06:44
By far the most important substance used in the manufacture of nearly all drugs is water. If we just regulated water, the drug problem would be gone!
Oh, what? You can't wash your car or brush your teeth? Well, I can't develop my TLC plates either. Tough luck.
chemrox - 3-3-2014 at 08:37
In the US there is no license requirement for researchers. The problem is the major chemical companies are being run by lawyers (since 2007-8) who
can take a profitable business and turn it into a liability. This is the only circumstance under which I would say, "Buy from the Chinese).
hyfalcon - 3-3-2014 at 16:59
Yeah, I'm working on an order of grade 2 titanium fasteners out of China. About 2.5 times the quantity for $30.00 bucks more than I could source it
in the states.
Mr_Magnesium - 3-3-2014 at 17:29
I can vouch for Warteo about how ridiculous the law is.
In my state, potassium and magnesium is a category 2 item.
Phenylalanine is also a category 2, which is of course an amino acid that is needed for the body. However i do understand that the structure of it is
rather.. iffy.
Mesa - 4-3-2014 at 03:08
I can't speak for other states, but I've found in NSW that many scheduled compounds can still be found in surprisingly high amounts/concentrations in
seemingly innocuous products.
I recently found a generic branded product at the local hardware store which was essentially tech grade 2-Phenylethanol.