Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Ideal substitute for rocket fuel.

Dr.Felix Strausser - 16-11-2013 at 10:12

Hey there!..... new to the forum. Just wanted to know the different kinds of compounds or mixtures that would substitute rocket fuel for a homemade rocket. Something that can be obtained/or synthesized quickly, and keep me of the FBI's most wanted list.

Depending on how many members actually participate in this discussion i'd probably include a bit of physics as well.
Plus- if you are mentioning anything, TRY to mention the energy produced (if possible in joules) per combustion of 1g(mass) of the substance.

Dr.Felix Strausser - 16-11-2013 at 10:21

I'm considering the following fuels:

1) Compressed oxy-hydrogen (gaseous)
2)KClO3? (solid)

3) Idon't know much about this thought but.......a mixture of HNO3 and ethanol in an equal ratio (by volume)?

Pulverulescent - 16-11-2013 at 10:34

Two of those will likely simply detonate on ignition ─ the other won't do anything at all . . .
Some serious, sustained study would seem to be in order?

Random - 16-11-2013 at 10:42

So KNO3 is illegal now?

Pulverulescent - 16-11-2013 at 10:56

It's certainly an inferior oxidiser when compared to AN, AP and ADN . . .

AJKOER - 16-11-2013 at 10:59

Construct a combustion chamber to which you inject a mist of alcohol which is subsequently mixed with air. In place of the later, you can use NO or pure generated O2 to increase the power.

More simply, for example, pipe (constructed, for example, of Al or Zn) oxygen or NO into a chamber (or, have a central pipe core containing an oxidizer like KClO4, which is not in contact with the fuel) into an air space lined with alcohol gel (in contact with the outer shell of the rocket) and ignite the fumes. It is important that the O2 source and the fuel are separated until ignition else you will just have a denotation (in fact, many poorly designed rockets just explode).

For those who have some doubts on the potential power, see the recent thread at http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=21691 together with links to a Youtube video that discusses so called "ethanol cannons". Point it straight up and now it could loosely be called a 'rocket', but not accurately as the precise definition is "a cylindrical projectile that can be propelled to a great height or distance by the combustion of its contents" source: https://www.google.com/#q=definition+of+a+rocket


[Edited on 16-11-2013 by AJKOER]

Pulverulescent - 16-11-2013 at 12:52

Quote:

More simply, for example, pipe (constructed, for example, of Al or Zn) oxygen or NO into a chamber (or, have a central pipe core containing an oxidizer like KClO4, which is not in contact with the fuel) into an air space lined with alcohol gel (in contact with the outer shell of the rocket) and ignite the fumes. It is important that the O2 source and the fuel are separated until ignition else you will just have a denotation (in fact, many poorly designed rockets just explode).

Dangerous rubbish ─ the good doctor would be better advised to peruse this page?

Pulverulescent - 16-11-2013 at 13:09

Quote:
...a mixture of HNO3 and ethanol in an equal ratio (by volume)?

Such mixtures are shock-sensitive high explosives (comparable to nitro in their effect) ─ not to be prepared the amateur chemist who values eyes and digits . . .

Dr.Felix Strausser - 16-11-2013 at 21:04

Never did mention KNO3.......

Dr.Felix Strausser - 16-11-2013 at 21:07

As quoted: the good doctor would be better advised to peruse this page?
Never did consider KCLO4......Thx though......

[Edited on 17-11-2013 by Dr.Felix Strausser]

[Edited on 17-11-2013 by Dr.Felix Strausser]

papaya - 17-11-2013 at 01:48

This is interesting : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPWqCMb7DE

Random - 17-11-2013 at 03:51

Quote: Originally posted by Dr.Felix Strausser  
Never did mention KNO3.......


Isn't that what most people use? It should be relatively cheap.

Agricola - 17-11-2013 at 04:17

A Google search shows most amateurs use KNO3-sucrose mixtures and some use blackpowder.

HNO3 & Etoh

DetaDude - 17-11-2013 at 17:57

If my memory serves me right............wasn't this mix used to fuel Hitlers V-2 !



DetaDude

Metacelsus - 17-11-2013 at 18:39

No, the V2 used a 75% ethanol solution in water as fuel and liquid oxygen as oxidizer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket#Technical_details

ScienceSquirrel - 18-11-2013 at 14:32

Practical amateur rocket fuels tend to be a solid mixture of a fuel and an oxidiser.
Zinc powder and sulphur was quite popular, gunpowder is OK, potassium nitrate and sulphur is quite popular.
I am not an expert and these are just suggestions.
Amateur rocket engine builders tend to avoid liquid fuels due to the complexity of storage in the rocket, pumps and building the combustion chamber.
If I was building a liquid fuel rocket I would go for something simple like high test hydrogen peroxide and a catalyst like a silver wire mesh.
This gives you one liquid to pump at a controlled rate in to the combustion chamber.
A liquid fueled rocket with fuel and oxidiser requires a lot more control over pumping rates and cooling, plus you can have storage problems if you use nitric acid as an oxidiser.
You can build a working water / air rocket for tens of dollars / pounds /euros.
A solid fuel rocket for hundreds of the above.
A liquid fuel is going to cost thousands unless you have lots of spare pumps, pipes, tanks, etc lying around in your garage!

Dr.Felix Strausser - 23-11-2013 at 08:22

Was expecting a lot more detailed stuff, but.......
Thanks anyways guys......

Trotsky - 28-11-2013 at 14:38

There are hundreds of pages online covering this exact topic. You're not getting detailed answers because it's assumed that you can handle finding this information yourself. It's not exactly difficult.