Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Custom made tungsten carbide apparatus

Mesa - 6-9-2013 at 11:03

My father works as a tradesman for a precision engineering company specializing in tungsten carbide products for the mining sector. I recently found out that the factory is shutting down in December, and as a result, nobody really gives a shit about what actually happens there. Last time I visited, I scored a Mettler PM600 that they had literally let my dad take home.

Anyhow, from my experiences working there as a labourer a few years back, they work within stupidly thin tolerances. We would often chuck the job out if it was more than 0.5% off before it even went in the furnace,(Loses approx 30% volume in furnace depending on composition) and the tradies were working to within a few microns of spec.

With the plant closing down, I can basically put in for as many foreign orders(custom shit that isn't being paid for) as I want. Unfortunately, my chem knowledge isn't nearly extensive enough to properly take advantage of this opportunity, and I fear by the time it is, the opportunity would have passed. Given this, what would be some of the more useful apparatus I could design, and have made, from pretty high grade WC?

I've got enough skill with CAD programs(Incomplete mechatronics engineering degree) to design pretty much anything, I just don't know what would be useful compared to borosilicate/quartz.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by Mesa]

Metacelsus - 6-9-2013 at 11:22

WC might be useful as a refractory material for a crucible, especially because it is resistant to chemical attack.
Depending on how large you can make one, (greater than 10 cm diameter), I might be interested. If you could make it closed (conical, possibly) with a female 24/40 ground glass joint on top, I could use it for high-temperature pyrolysis, and that would be even better.

(for others)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide

Also, for any nuclear-minded folks, it's used as a neutron reflector.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by Cheddite Cheese]

bfesser - 6-9-2013 at 11:25

Grinder plates, ball mill components, perhaps a mortar and pestle, or a crucible? Can't really think of anything particularly useful for chemistry where <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide" target="_blank">WC</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> would be well suited. Perhaps you could design something similar to a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_anvil_cell" target="_blank">diamond anvil cell</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> but for measuring electrical and thermal conductivity of various materials at extreme pressures? If you're into nuclear physics, you could design some <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_reflector" target="_blank">neutron reflectors</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" />.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide#Other" target="_blank">
Quote:
WC has been investigated for its potential use as a catalyst and it has been found to resemble platinum in its catalysis of the production of water from hydrogen and oxygen at room temperature, the reduction of tungsten trioxide by hydrogen in the presence of water, and the isomerisation of 2,2-dimethylpropane to 2-methylbutane. It has been proposed as a replacement for the iridium catalyst in hydrazine powered satellite thrusters. <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" />
</a>[edit] Damnit, <strong>Cheddite Cheese</strong>, you posted while I was writing! :P

[Edited on 6.9.13 by bfesser]

Metacelsus - 6-9-2013 at 11:28

The catalyst effect is interesting. Given the platinum-like effect, I wonder if it could be used as the anode in an electrochemical cell converting chlorate to perchlorate.

Mesa - 6-9-2013 at 11:47

Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese  
WC might be useful as a refractory material for a crucible, especially because it is resistant to chemical attack.
Depending on how large you can make one, (greater than 10 cm diameter), I might be interested. If you could make it closed (conical, possibly) with a female 24/40 ground glass joint on top, I could use it for high-temperature pyrolysis, and that would be even better.

(for others)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tungsten_carbide

Also, for any nuclear-minded folks, it's used as a neutron reflector.

[Edited on 6-9-2013 by Cheddite Cheese]


No clue about attaching ground glass joints, but the 40 tonne press that I used to work on for heavy alloys was used to make crucibles of up to 330mm diameter IIRC.




EDIT from wikipedia page;
"Since this element's thermal expansion is similar to borosilicate glass, it is used for making glass-to-metal seals"
I wonder how difficult WC to W seals are...

I also stumbled accross this:
http://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/courses/cem958/FS08_SS09%5CMik...
Tungstic acid catalyzes oxidation of primary/secondary alcohols to aldehydes, then KMnO4 to get acetic acid without H2O byproduct(A massive waste of acetaldehyde sure, but I have previously been trying to produce GAA without requiring distillation as a side project for a while now)

Also found some interesting stuff regarding WS catalysts, it seems like tungsten is more useful as a reagent than a building material.

[Edited on 7-9-2013 by Mesa]

12AX7 - 7-9-2013 at 09:12

Important question:

Pure tungsten carbide, or cobalt-bonded?

Far as I know, the pure stuff was only in use briefly (Kennametal made it I think??). Nowadays, "WC" for cutting tools has been predominantly the 10-20% Co type.

That said, the cobalt content could be useful to people here, and if they start with pure WC powder and Co powder separately, the WC powder might be useful as a catalyst. Well, both powders would be useful, who am I kidding.

Tim

IrC - 7-9-2013 at 12:07

Since the fracking industry is one of the few booming enterprises left in the US I would give serious thought to drill bits.

Mesa - 9-9-2013 at 17:35

Quote: Originally posted by 12AX7  
Important question:

Pure tungsten carbide, or cobalt-bonded?

Far as I know, the pure stuff was only in use briefly (Kennametal made it I think??). Nowadays, "WC" for cutting tools has been predominantly the 10-20% Co type.

That said, the cobalt content could be useful to people here, and if they start with pure WC powder and Co powder separately, the WC powder might be useful as a catalyst. Well, both powders would be useful, who am I kidding.

Tim


Pure tungsten powder, WC powder(with about 20% paraffin wax that should be easy to separate) and WC doped with Co are all used by the plant.

Unfortunately I failed to take into account the density of WC in my initial excitement. The stuff is roughly twice the density of Iron so it wouldn't be feasible for lab apparatus. I'll definitely be exploring its use as a catalyst though.

DrSchnufflez - 9-9-2013 at 17:49

Do you know how much Co is doped in the WC powder?

Fantasma4500 - 10-9-2013 at 09:52

one question, this is in the US, right?
if you would find time for this, i would like a little metal cup, say.. 50mm wide and 50mm tall, a cylinder with bottom pretty much

also, do you have some scrap laying around of this wolfram carbide? if so i would like some pieces of that, if business would be ok..

also a 5mm tall cylinder disc, 35mm wide / 17.5mm diameter, with a 25mm stick in the absolute middle facing upwards, thickness of this stick should be 10mm

perhaps even a 2mm plate if you can manage that?

im quite interested, as wolfram is one of my favorite metals and it has pretty intense properties :P

also, i have been considering a larger cup for melting metals in, say approx 12 cm wide and 18 cm tall (120mm and 180mm)
how much would the price be? like would it be calculated in grammes of WC used or just some bartering? and shipping ofcourse, what would they be around

edit: few extra questions

[Edited on 11-9-2013 by Antiswat]