Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Copper II Perchlorate ?

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 29-8-2013 at 00:35

I have some copper salts, and perchlorate salts,

any ways i can get copper perchlorate from below ingredients ?

NH4ClO4
LiClO4

Cu(NO3)2
CuSO4
CuO
Cupper acetate
Cupper glutamate
Cupper citrate

Any ways i can make copper II perchlorate ???

woelen - 29-8-2013 at 00:58

From NH4ClO4, HCl and HNO3 it is said you can make HClO4 by boiling a mix of these chemicals. The nitrate/chloride combination forms aqua regia (Cl2 and/or ONCl as oxidizer), which destroys the NH4(+) ions. What remains behind is a mix of HCl, HClO4 and HNO3. By boiling off the liquid (keep boiling until the temperature rises to well over 130 C), you drive off the HNO3 and HCl (under partial decomposition) and HClO4 and water remain behind. Then you can react CuO with HClO4.

I, however, am not really enthusiastic about the process of making HClO4 from NH4ClO4, HCl and HNO3. You need a LOT of heating, a LONG time of boiling and it is hard to get rid of all ammonium ions. It's not a really smooth reaction, you have to be patient.

phlogiston - 29-8-2013 at 12:17

An alternative route that should work:

1. Dissolve ammonium perchlorate and add sodium hydroxide.
2. Boil until no more ammonia gas escapes. (Periodically add water if necessary)
3. Make a saturated solution by boiling the solution and allowing the steam to esape. Allow to cool down. Crystals of sodium perchlorate should form upon cooling (or you did not concentrate the solution sufficiently). Add small amounts of water to redissolve them.

You now have a saturated solution of sodium perchlorate

5. Add concentrated hydrochloric acid. A white precipitate of sodium chloride will form.
6. Filter the solution to remove the sodium chloride.
7. The filtrate is perchloric acid with some residual sodium chloride dissolved in it. You could distill it to purify further if desired.

Finally, dissolve the CuO in the perchloric acid

A lot of work and perchloric acid is notorious for exploding at undesirable moments if slightly contaminated. It is best to avoid making or storing it if at all possible. Is there anything particularly interesting that can be done with copper(II)perchlorate?

[Edited on 29-8-2013 by phlogiston]

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 30-8-2013 at 03:36

is there any way i can ion exchange to get the Copper II perchlorate ?

Fantasma4500 - 30-8-2013 at 05:35

let me just fetch the synthesis for TACC, tetraammine copper chlorate, i suggest Cu(ClO3)2 will be around as easy to make as Cu(ClO4)2..

its made by NaClO3 and CuSO4

2NaClO3 + CuSO4 > Cu(ClO3)2 + Na2SO4

15g NaClO3 placed in beaker
add 360 mL ethanol / EtOH
add 24g CuSO4 to this, pentahydrate i suppose
place beaker in hot water bath, boil at boiling point for 30 mins
keep volume constant
filter green solution (or decant?)
save liquid (evaporate > Cu(ClO3)2)
last step is then to add ammonia gas, anhydrous to this.. but unless if you want the tetraammine you obviously doesnt need to do this..

DubaiAmateurRocketry - 30-8-2013 at 11:16

Quote: Originally posted by Antiswat  
let me just fetch the synthesis for TACC, tetraammine copper chlorate, i suggest Cu(ClO3)2 will be around as easy to make as Cu(ClO4)2..

its made by NaClO3 and CuSO4

2NaClO3 + CuSO4 > Cu(ClO3)2 + Na2SO4

15g NaClO3 placed in beaker
add 360 mL ethanol / EtOH
add 24g CuSO4 to this, pentahydrate i suppose
place beaker in hot water bath, boil at boiling point for 30 mins
keep volume constant
filter green solution (or decant?)
save liquid (evaporate > Cu(ClO3)2)
last step is then to add ammonia gas, anhydrous to this.. but unless if you want the tetraammine you obviously doesnt need to do this..


is it possible to make Cu(ClO4)2 by doing same thing but with NaClO4 ?

So like, 2NaClO4 + CuSO4 = Na2SO4+ Cu(ClO4)2

phlogiston - 30-8-2013 at 15:29

Ion exchange can work and would be a very simple method if you can find and obtain a suitable cation exchange resin. load it with Cu<sup>2+</sup> and then simply pass your ammonium or lithium perchlorate solution over the column. Dowex 50W maybe?

With respect to the method posted by antiswat, you can check yourself if it might work or not by looking up the solubility of the relevant compounds. You cannot simply assume that what works for a chlorate will work for the perchlorate. Chlorate and perchlorate salts often behave very differently.

[Edited on 30-8-2013 by phlogiston]

Fantasma4500 - 20-9-2013 at 10:07

very differently? i'd say theyre pretty close, anyhow they can be different

but for K into Na ClOx i suppose the one with KClO3 + Na2SO4 would work for KClO4 aswell, i havent seen NaClO4 in long time.. might be different in dubai tho

KClO3 + Na2SO4 + H2O (boiled together, fully dissolved) + EtOH > K2SO4 (s) + NaClO3 (aq)
100g 60g 600 mL 375 mL

but damnit man, dont fuck up with something that could potentially be a primary, please test it out more than just once, and do it throughly..