Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Urea + potassium chlorate as an explosive.

Urea + potassium chlorate as an explosive.

jhonn - 20-4-2013 at 04:31

Since urea has -NH₂ reducing groups, and chlorate is a strong oxidizer, it would behave similarly to ammonium nitrate. Though the oxidizer and reducer in ammonium nitrate are ions of the same salt, (therefore, very well mixed), this would be compensated by the higher oxidizing power of chlorates in comparison to nitrates. I know that ammonium chlorate is a very unstable explosive, and is not used because of its instability. But what about the potassium chlorate/urea mix ? If the chlorate/urea is too unstable, then what about perchlorate/urea ?

Ral123 - 20-4-2013 at 06:12

You want to replace the high energy density generic hydrocarbon fuel with urea? You'll end up with insensitive hygroscopic cr*p.
May be the mates will tell, is it a good idea to improve the OB and energy density of urea nitrate by adding a little ball milled chlorate?

Fantasma4500 - 20-4-2013 at 06:57

i would say if you wanna check for any potential you should try mixing 0.1g amounts in total and hammering it
perhaps ... molten KClO3 with urea
by that you should be able to see if it can work at all..

Motherload - 20-4-2013 at 10:55

Last I checked .... Urea didn't burn to well.
Using it in a mix is probably going to be a waste.
Urea perchlorate is a different story.
I cannot comment on the stability of urea chlorate.

AndersHoveland - 20-4-2013 at 12:15

Seems like a bad idea for several reasons. Urea is a terrible fuel. The only reason it would ever be used is because it can form energetic salts, with the fuel and oxidizer intermixed on a molecular level in the same crystal lattice. But you are not talking about that, you are talking about a simply physical mix. In pyrotechnic compositions, the urea mostly just tends to melt into a puddle and not burn. The first step in the thermal decomposition releases NH3, not a very flammable gas. Then there would probably be compatibility problems between the urea and chlorate, it would not be safe to store (do some research on the hazards/instability of ammonium chlorate for further details)

Bot0nist - 20-4-2013 at 15:58

While i've never tried urea, I experimented with varying proportions of powdered, dry hexamine and KClO3. When the mix was right, it burned so very fast, with a WHOOOMP sound. reminisent of perchlorate flash powder.
I didn't do any impact testing, but I wonderd if it would be detonable if it was dead pressed or tamped to a suitable density, and initiated by a compound cap (lead azide/TNP) kind of like a cheddite compsition.

Definatly wouldnt want to play with large amounts or try to store it in any way. Im sure thats true for most chlorate composistions though...

[Edited on 21-4-2013 by Bot0nist]

Ral123 - 20-4-2013 at 21:56

Lead azide is not to b mixed with acidic compounds. I've heard such configuration looses power in a matter of weeks. Obviously, HN3 is also formed then.

Fantasma4500 - 21-4-2013 at 05:16

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

While i've never tried urea, I experimented with varying proportions of powdered, dry hexamine and KClO3. When the mix was right, it burned so very fast, with a WHOOOMP sound. reminisent of perchlorate flash powder.
I didn't do any impact testing, but I wonderd if it would be detonable if it was dead pressed or tamped to a suitable density, and initiated by a compound cap (lead azide/TNP) kind of like a cheddite compsition.

Definatly wouldnt want to play with large amounts or try to store it in any way. Im sure thats true for most chlorate composistions though...

[Edited on 21-4-2013 by Bot0nist]

interesting...
around what ratios did you use?

Bot0nist - 21-4-2013 at 05:40

I didnt take notes, an it was a long time ago. do some small scale testing, and you'll know when the mix is right. it will burn fast and easily, like a flash powder.
I am aware about the compatability issues with azide and TNP. those "science experiments consistided of small amounds of each, in a plastic straw. they were never stored, even briefly, an was made and used right away. It was just what I had on hand, at the time.
Be safe guys.

Fantasma4500 - 22-4-2013 at 11:19

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

I didnt take notes, an it was a long time ago. do some small scale testing, and you'll know when the mix is right. it will burn fast and easily, like a flash powder.

well what flashpowder are we talking about here anyways.. slowflash as in nitratebased or chlorate with bad aluminium or good magnesium powder sentisized with sulfur charcoal and iron oxide?

i tried it
i did get a very very strange mixture..
it pulsed up and down and i couldnt seem to find a ratio that was different at all.. very strange.. i used KClO3 recrystallized from NaClO3 + KCl so it was pure enough for the purpose..

Bot0nist - 22-4-2013 at 12:34

I was speaking of perchlorate/dark Al flashpowder,as far as burn rate.
For the pyrotechnic mix of hexamine and KClO3 make sure the hexamine is super dry, as it is hydroscopic, and make sure it very finely powdered as it often comes in clumps and beads. Mix it intimently with the KClO3.
I can't remember the ratios though. Some stoichiometry may help here.

It takes a bit to take light, but when it did, whoosh!

I was more curious about its ability to undergo detonation when initiated by a primary to secondary explosive train. Will it behave like DNT(or even wax)/KClO3 "cheditte, compositions...

Precipitates - 14-12-2023 at 23:45

Urea + potassium chlorate

Orchard chemicals explosion kills 3 workers:
https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2694663

Explosive and very dangerous in kilogram quantities.

yobbo II - 20-12-2023 at 14:51

What is this stuff?

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/158017922

Yob

Precipitates - 20-12-2023 at 18:06

Looks like just a 1:1 mix of potassium chlorate and urea

A compound (mixture) of the two chemicals

Sir_Gawain - 20-12-2023 at 19:17

It appears to be an adduct. Like urea (hydrogen) peroxide.

yobbo II - 21-12-2023 at 16:56

Is it explosive?

Sir_Gawain - 21-12-2023 at 21:10

I'll make some tomorrow and try it.

Sir_Gawain - 22-12-2023 at 10:50

I combined saturated solutions of urea and potassium chlorate at about 80*C and let it slowly cool. A bunch of crystals formed, which looked exactly like potassium chlorate. I don’t think the adduct formed, but I’ll have to test it.

Laboratory of Liptakov - 23-12-2023 at 03:46

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/patent/RU-2487539-C1
KClO3 + urea (carbamide) is Pyrotechnical smoke-forming composition. Patented in Russia. I guess, that for KClO3 exist a lot better fuels than carbamide if the results should be some high energetics.... :cool: