Sciencemadness Discussion Board - lachrymatory agents(Tear gas)

lachrymatory agents(Tear gas)

v-disk - 17-4-2013 at 12:12

Hello, recently I've got interest in producing lachrymatory agents.
I've produced Chloroacetone but I'm still interested are there any ways to produce powdered tear gas that when heated would turn into gas just like CS gas (2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile) does. But probably with easier production method

It would be nice if you could give some step-by-step instructions on producing those.

Bot0nist - 17-4-2013 at 12:32

I hear that capsaicin(sp) from hot peppers is readily vaporized by heating, and is an insidious annoyance. Colorless, and with very little smell as well. Have you done a forum search yet? That would be the best place to start.

Hexavalent - 17-4-2013 at 14:00

Am I the only one who thinks this is suspicious? Someone "suddenly" having an interest in lachrymatory agents, who coincidentally also wants us to spoonfeed him a simple, step-by-step recipe?

Thread reported.

Bot0nist - 17-4-2013 at 14:30

I think they are interesting too. not to dangerous though. I agree about the spoonfeed request, but nicodem has already seen the thread, and moved it, so was a report nessesary Hex? Go with you gut, I guess.
Peace,
The Bot.

Capsaicin

chemcam - 17-4-2013 at 17:26

I have done a capsaicin extraction using diethyl ether and dry alcohol from spicy peppers. It is very simple to find a guide but basically just dry the peppers out, grind them up, not all the way to a powder though, and then you can do the extraction. After filtration and evaporation you should be left with pretty clean capsaicin. I never went as far as crystallizing it through, mine was waxy and colorless, it evolved painful vapors upon heating.

Capsaicin is hydrophobic so the reagents must be free of water contamination, it is also a volatile substance, appropriate storage is needed obviously.

neptunium - 17-4-2013 at 17:33

have you made chloropicrin yet? not what you looking for i know but then again for a sudden interest...weird!

v-disk - 17-4-2013 at 20:21

Thank You for your responses.
It think I'll try extracting capsaicin it's interesting how this'll work out.If somone has any more ideas please write

.

P.S For those who think this is suspicious well you should now that lachrymatory agents are not very dangerous and I haven't got an interest *suddenly* I've been reading SM forums and google for like 2 weeks.

woelen - 18-4-2013 at 22:30

Chloropicrin indeed is a lachrymatory agent, but it IS dangerous. Actually, it is extremely toxic and should be considered a chemical weapon. Do not mess around with this stuff, it most likely will hit yourself when you attempt to isolate it!

neptunium - 19-4-2013 at 12:26

i was being suspicious woelen i know what it is....
just a new guy going str8 to the kewl shit again...thats all

kristofvagyok - 19-4-2013 at 12:45

Quote: Originally posted by neptunium

have you made chloropicrin yet? not what you looking for i know but then again for a sudden interest...weird!

I have smelled it a few times, really bad, not worth trying out. Especially if it is produced from picric acid, it could easily overreact and boil out, what is a really bad joke, not good enough to try it out.

There was a kid on youtube who had a few videos about this stuff with fairly large amounts... He died from these shit, it is a perfect lesson for everyone to forget these stupid things, working with them, without proper protection could easily cause serious problems, not joke.

I have worked with a lachmiatory stuff, mainly with N-chlorinated organics what have really irritating odor, even to eyes and to lungs, these stuff are also in the category that "shouldn't be tried out".

[Edited on 19-4-2013 by kristofvagyok]

v-disk - 19-4-2013 at 13:55

Thank you for your warnings about chloropicrin, altrought I was not going to make it, I still consider extracting capsaicin or making other lachrymators as long as they are not to dangerous

chemcam - 19-4-2013 at 16:12

Quote: Originally posted by v-disk

Thank you for your warnings about chloropicrin, altrought I was not going to make it, I still consider extracting capsaicin or making other lachrymators as long as they are not to dangerous

You may already know this but I'm gonna throw it out there anyway. When you are extracting the capcaicin and especially if its hot temp-wise make sure that the goggles you are wearing hug your face very tight with zero gaps. Mine were not and it was very painful when the fumes got into my eyes they find the smallest areas to get in. Also wear a pair of disposable gloves over normal gloves so there is no chance to transfer it to your skin. Imagine going to the bathroom with capcaicin on your fingers!

Finnnicus - 20-4-2013 at 00:59

Chemcam, capsaicin video.

Hexavalent - 20-4-2013 at 01:00

Quote: Originally posted by chemcam

Quote: Originally posted by v-disk

Thank you for your warnings about chloropicrin, altrought I was not going to make it, I still consider extracting capsaicin or making other lachrymators as long as they are not to dangerous

You might be a chemist if you wash your hands before going to the bathroom

A chef at work once got chilli sauce in his eye, and it seemed excruciatingly painful for him. He irrigated it out for some time and it got better, but was still quite uncomfortable.

Personally, I'd wear a face shield when handling capsaicin and use the double-glove techniqeue chemcam suggested.

chemcam - 20-4-2013 at 09:02

Quote: Originally posted by Hexavalent

You might be a chemist if you wash your hands before going to the bathroom

Hahaha! Very Clever!

I can't imagine anything worse than genital related chemical accidents. I just might have to attach an extra butyl glove, you know where.

Bot0nist - 20-4-2013 at 09:42

I'm not sure if your more interested in some of the more complex compounds or synthesis, but I recall a few years back, I was experimenting with a small lead chamber for sulfuric acid production. I was using powdered sulfur with KNO3. Just enough nitrate to sustian a good burn. the resulting mix of sulfer oxides were extremely irritating, even in very small doses. I dout this is very healthy either though...

chemcam - 20-4-2013 at 10:02

When I was making iron sulfide for the first time, igniting iron and sulfur together, I got a whiff of the sulfur dioxide gas and it was a similar experience to when I got a whiff of chlorine gas, very choking, irritating odor.

Bot0nist - 20-4-2013 at 12:03

Yes, the sulfur dioxide and trioxide that I got a few wiffs of gave a persistant scratchy throat. Eyes and nasal passages were also a bit stinging and sore for a day or to.

neptunium - 20-4-2013 at 12:53

Quote: Originally posted by v-disk

Thank you for your warnings about chloropicrin, altrought I was not going to make it, I still consider extracting capsaicin or making other lachrymators as long as they are not to dangerous

really??? i cant never understand the people who wants to make something they are not prepare or ready to deal with...

i am not saying you should make Chloropicrin but accept the danger of a small amount ! you want to make lachrymators are you not?

another member wanted to make RDX or picric acid but didnt want to deal with sulfuric acid..?

there is some nasty substances out there and we have to take the proper precautions to handle them and accept the fact that somethings sometimes can go wrong and we willhave to take responsability for them !
thats it !

if you synthesized small amount you take a minor risk always small amount. but a risk nonetheless that you have to be prepare to deal with...simple as that.

are you a home chemist or what? where is your scientific mind?

DO THE RESEARCH, USE SAFETY GEARS, AND ALWAYS SMALL QUANTITIES.

and accept that we all make mistakes and be ready to deal with it and take responsability.

[Edited on 20-4-2013 by neptunium]

neptunium - 28-4-2013 at 18:08

no further comments

Formatik - 11-5-2013 at 15:02

Acrolein was the first real lacrimator I've encountered. Highly irritating. But also unstable, mutagenic, and actually quite lethal for a lacrimator. I took a direct whiff, and it gave such an intense rush that I'll never forget.

Once I had mixed chlorinated and brominated hydantoins with some acetone. I wanted to see if it would ignite. There was no reaction, but in the moment sunlight hit and stayed a few moments on the mixture, a violent free-radical halogenation reaction occurred and there was significant gas evolution and the gas was extremely irritating and caused lacrimation from a distance from gram amounts, the gas was likley bromo and chloroacetones (and who knows what else, could be very toxic), and left behind a dark residue.

I somehow got a small amount of the dark residue (which was sticky and resinous) on my hand and then accidentally got it in my eye, which caused severe irritation that didn't subside after washing the eyes with a large amount of water. I had to kind of sit it out a few minutes and just keep washing.