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agricultural KCl

Steve_hi - 19-3-2013 at 05:52

I bought a 25KG bag of 00.00.60 muriate of potash the guy at the store says that's the old name for potassium chloride

I always thought kCl was green like the melting salt we use on ice but this stuff is redish brown.

what else is in with it and how can i go about purifying it

hissingnoise - 19-3-2013 at 06:04

I just dump it in warm water, filter and partially evaporate to precipitate crystals . . .
The red gunk, AFAIK, reduces its solubility in soil!

woelen - 19-3-2013 at 07:30

If you intend to purify it, then keep in mind that pure KCl is white or somewhat transparent like pure ice if you have large crystals. It certainly is not green. Powdered KCl or KCl consisting of small crystals is white like pure table salt.

elementcollector1 - 19-3-2013 at 07:35

To put it in perspective, it is table salt! The Na+ ion has been switched out for a K+, but the result still tastes and looks the same: A white salt with cubic crystals.
I would guess the green is dyes? I've seen green, orange and blue on road salt before.

DraconicAcid - 19-3-2013 at 08:21

Quote: Originally posted by elementcollector1

To put it in perspective, it is table salt! The Na+ ion has been switched out for a K+, but the result still tastes and looks the same: A white salt with cubic crystals.

I've heard people say that, but I've always found potassium chloride to taste revolting, and nothing like sodium chloride. No "lo-salt" for me.

zed - 19-3-2013 at 13:59

Tastes OK to me. But, as you say, some people...do find the taste disgusting.

Steve_hi - 19-3-2013 at 17:26

Ive been recrystalizing this shit all day getting sick of it
ill have about 15 20 lbs of it when im done tomorrow
any ideas what I can do with it. the only purpose i have in mind for it right now is to make a 3.3 M solution to keep my pH probe in.
what else can I do with it besides melt the ice off my door steps

elementcollector1 - 19-3-2013 at 18:03

Convert it to other K compounds? You could electrolyze it to hydroxide, with the right setup.

Steve_hi - 19-3-2013 at 18:06

That sounds interesting do you have procedure you could share with me on how to do that and what equipment I wwould need
I do want some KOH

elementcollector1 - 19-3-2013 at 18:17

You will need: two containers (either beakers or flowerpots), a good source of electricity (a car battery charger?) and, if you're using beakers, a paper towel. The negative electrode (cathode) can be anything, but stainless steel is recommended; the anode must be carbon, platinum or MMO to resist the chlorine gas.

Pour tap water into the container with the cathode (should be the smaller flowerpot that's inside of the larger one) and concentrated salt water into the other cell. Connect the anode (carbon or whatever) to the salt water, and the metal cathode to the tap water. Let run for a few days.

When noticeable bubbles of gas are coming off your metal electrode, that means it's working.

When you think the electrolysis is done (this can be calculated based on the voltage and amperage of your cell), switch the power off, and boil down the KOH in a steel container (preferably not a soup can, as I learned. This gives pure KOH. The reason you shouldn't boil down in glass is because KOH solutions can react with glass.

Steve_hi - 19-3-2013 at 18:21

Okay thanks Ill try that when I have evrything I need I have good DC power supplies and carbon rods I took out of Batteries
so ill buy some stanless rod and the Ill be good to go

elementcollector1 - 19-3-2013 at 18:55

One quick note: Those carbon rods tend to degrade into carbon powder, something about forming an intercalated graphite-oxide that weakens the structure of the rod. This doesn't happen to everyone, and if it does it happens slowly, but you should be fine provided you filter out the black stuff with a coffee filter, or a paper towel.

woelen - 19-3-2013 at 23:42

Use it to make KClO3. Use the search engine to find threads about making this. That is one of the very few interesting uses. Making KOH from KCl is MUCH more difficult and requires good apparatus. It is not impossible, but it is hard!

metalresearcher - 20-3-2013 at 02:09

Indeed he tells about two separate containers, but does not tel how to connect them it won't work. When making KClO3, the newly formed KOH *should* react with the Cl2 gas at the anode. But with making KOH it should be kept separated which is indeed much more difficult as @woelen says.

You can get KOH from ebay it is very easy and cheap, I got it without problem.

plante1999 - 20-3-2013 at 03:46

If you got a large amount of mercury, it could be quite easy to make KOH from it. However it would be harder without it, but still possible. In both case you will need MMO anode, or another expensive material. I have a few piece lefts,one of 3 by 5inch if a remember and many of 1-2 inch by 5. If you are interested please U2U me.

If you don't have mercury you will have to use a diaphragm cell. Based on asbestos, as it used to be the best one before its use was regulated (I can provide you asbestos sheet /plate too). However you can use some clay with less efficiency.

Steve_hi - 20-3-2013 at 03:55

Quote:

You can get KOH from ebay it is very easy and cheap, I got it without problem.

I have Posttasiym Hydroxide comming from elemental scientific but they are slower than the secon d comming

I caný but from Ebay any more because they told me I have reached my spending limit
And I refuse to give them my bank account details

But I will do as Woellen has sugested just need to get those special metals for the anode/ cathode

Two flower pots

alancain - 27-3-2013 at 14:54

There is an old industrial process for making KOH using iron pots inverted into the KCl bath - used for some other things too, but I guess you could use stainless steel bowls and measuring cups :}

The inner bowl is inverted so there is an area isolated from the atmosphere, collecting useful things like chlorine at the electrode under the bowl.

Also alkali metal production...

This reminds me of Downs cells. Must... look... up....

vmelkon - 29-3-2013 at 18:02

Quote: Originally posted by plante1999

If you got a large amount of mercury, it could be quite easy to make KOH from it. However it would be harder without it, but still possible. In both case you will need MMO anode, or another expensive material. I have a few piece lefts,one of 3 by 5inch if a remember and many of 1-2 inch by 5. If you are interested please U2U me.

If you don't have mercury you will have to use a diaphragm cell. Based on asbestos, as it used to be the best one before its use was regulated (I can provide you asbestos sheet /plate too). However you can use some clay with less efficiency.

If you want to see it in action on a small scale in a lab or on an industrial scale, here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtxiCZrLH8g&list=FLJruTw...

PS: it is for NaOH, but the same applies to KOH

Aqua-regia1 - 30-3-2013 at 01:11

This product consist appr. 5-10% of NaCl and 90-95 % KCl, and little bit of iron impurity. (My company is wholsale trader of this) Pure KCl can you get from this salt with twice recristallisation. Piece of cake.

Mailinmypocket - 30-3-2013 at 07:28

If you want to avoid the headaches of purifying your salt, for what it's worth get this:

http://www.siftocanada.com/products/water-conditioning/

The first item on that page "nature's own" consists of virtually pure KCl. Lots of other companies make it, that just happens to be the brand I buy. They are large pellets though, so you either need to smash them up or dissolve them in boiling water... Trying to dissolve them at RT is almost useless due to how compact the pellets are and the endothermic dissolution itself.

Eddygp - 30-3-2013 at 08:54

Well, separating NaCl from KCl AFAIK is very difficult...
I like the Na3PO4 or NH3H2PO4 taste, piquant and sour 8)

hyfalcon - 30-3-2013 at 16:04

By a 50lb bag of no-salt softener salt from Lowe's. $15.00-$16.00 if I remember correctly. Doesn't even need a recrystallization.

Just dissolve till you have a saturated solution then filter through 2 paper towels to remove anything that might be left undissolved. I've used this to successfully feed a chlorate cell.

[Edited on 31-3-2013 by hyfalcon]

Steve_hi - 31-3-2013 at 06:23

I looked at a lot of places around here "Canada" and made lots of calls but found no Potassium chloride.
Then doing grocery shopping at Price Chpppers in Newport VT
I had a slap your head moment on the way out I saw some water softening salt as you described. But I learned alot about filtering and recrystalization using diffent coffee filters and freezing out crystals boiling it down and just letting it air dry each has advantages and disadvantages. So even though it took a lot of time and many filters I think the expieience was worth it.

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\01.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\02.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\04.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\05.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\06.jpg[/img]

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\07.jpg[/img]

Myfirst Chlorate cell

Steve_hi - 31-3-2013 at 06:50

Made with UHMW plastic an o-ring seals the gas from escaping from the side and the carbon Anode and food grade stainless steel cathode are tightly fitted in 1/4" reamed holes with a copper barbed fitting to lead into water and NaOH if I run the cell inside the power supply is a 5v 5a wall wart. I have a 30v 10a power supply comming this week

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\2013-03-31 2013\08.jpg[/img]

[Edited on 31-3-2013 by Steve_hi]

[Edited on 31-3-2013 by Steve_hi]

[Edited on 31-3-2013 by Steve_hi]

plante1999 - 31-3-2013 at 08:14

30V is way too much!!! You should use 3.33V at max 6V, especially if you are using graphite!

macckone - 31-3-2013 at 08:17

Use multiple cells in series if you are going to use 30V.
You should be able to do about 7 cells with good results.

Steve_hi - 31-3-2013 at 13:38

Should have said variable 0- 30v 0-10A so one cell will be enough.

[img]C:\Users\Steve\Pictures\Power supply.jpg[/img]

plante1999 - 31-3-2013 at 17:26

then use 3.33 V, and not more than 0.03 amp per square cm area of the graphite anode.