Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Balanced equation and some questions for some experiements.

KonkreteRocketry - 7-3-2013 at 10:24

I will make Copper carbonate and Sodium Nitrate by mixing 2 solutions of copper II Nitrate and sodium carbonate.

Can i have the balanced equation for this reaction please ?

Cu(NO3)2 + Na2CO3 = CuCO3 + 2 NaNO3


I will also make Copper Acetate by using 6% Acetic acid C2H4O2 solution and Copper oxide, CuO, not calcined.

CuO + C2H402 = C2H3O2Cu + ?


Also, if i use warm water the reaction will happen relatively faster ?
and, i think i need to boil the Acetic acid solution for the Copper acetate one right ? can i even use copper oxide ?

DraconicAcid - 7-3-2013 at 11:39

Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry  
I will make Copper carbonate and Sodium Nitrate by mixing 2 solutions of copper II Nitrate and sodium carbonate.

Can i have the balanced equation for this reaction please ?

Cu(NO3)2 + Na2CO3 = CuCO3 + 2 NaNO3[/rquote]
That is balanced, but the actual product is usually a basic copper(II) carbonate:
2 Cu(NO3)2 + 3 Na2CO3 + 2 H2O -> Cu2(OH)2CO3(s) + 4 NaNO3 + 2 NaHCO3.

[rquote]I will also make Copper Acetate by using 6% Acetic acid C2H4O2 solution and Copper oxide, CuO, not calcined.

CuO + C2H402 = C2H3O2Cu + ?[/rquote]

Copper(II) acetate is Cu(C2H3O2)2; the other product is water. (By the way, don't capitalize the names of compounds- they are not personal names or places.)

[rquote]Also, if i use warm water the reaction will happen relatively faster ?
and, i think i need to boil the Acetic acid solution for the Copper acetate one right ? can i even use copper oxide ?


The reaction with carbonate is pretty fast. The acetic acid one may not work even when boiling. You're better off reacting the basic copper carbonate with acetic acid to get the acetate.

KonkreteRocketry - 7-3-2013 at 12:44

Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry  
Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry  
I will make Copper carbonate and Sodium Nitrate by mixing 2 solutions of copper II Nitrate and sodium carbonate.

Can i have the balanced equation for this reaction please ?

Cu(NO3)2 + Na2CO3 = CuCO3 + 2 NaNO3[/rquote]
That is balanced, but the actual product is usually a basic copper(II) carbonate:
2 Cu(NO3)2 + 3 Na2CO3 + 2 H2O -> Cu2(OH)2CO3(s) + 4 NaNO3 + 2 NaHCO3.

[rquote]I will also make Copper Acetate by using 6% Acetic acid C2H4O2 solution and Copper oxide, CuO, not calcined.

CuO + C2H402 = C2H3O2Cu + ?[/rquote]

Copper(II) acetate is Cu(C2H3O2)2; the other product is water. (By the way, don't capitalize the names of compounds- they are not personal names or places.)

[rquote]Also, if i use warm water the reaction will happen relatively faster ?
and, i think i need to boil the Acetic acid solution for the Copper acetate one right ? can i even use copper oxide ?


The reaction with carbonate is pretty fast. The acetic acid one may not work even when boiling. You're better off reacting the basic copper carbonate with acetic acid to get the acetate.


Oh thank you, than how much of sodium carbonate and copper nitrate shall i put in the first place to get exactly same amount of sodium nitrate and copper carbonate in the end ?

and why can't I use Copper Oxide ?

DraconicAcid - 7-3-2013 at 13:01

I'd use excess sodium carbonate, just to make sure you get most of it out. For a gram of copper(II) nitrate (which I assume would be the trihydrate, so 4.1 mmmol), you would need about 0.44 g sodium carbonate. You would need about 5 mL vinegar (approximately 1 mol/L acetic acid) to turn that into the acetate.

Copper oxide is very slow to react even with strong acids. Commercial copper(II) oxide has to be heated to react with hydrochloric acid (in my experience). If you make it and collect it by filtration, it's either very mushy (and a pain to work with), or you dry it well and then it won't react with acetic acid.

KonkreteRocketry - 7-3-2013 at 13:33

Quote: Originally posted by DraconicAcid  
I'd use excess sodium carbonate, just to make sure you get most of it out. For a gram of copper(II) nitrate (which I assume would be the trihydrate, so 4.1 mmmol), you would need about 0.44 g sodium carbonate. You would need about 5 mL vinegar (approximately 1 mol/L acetic acid) to turn that into the acetate.

Copper oxide is very slow to react even with strong acids. Commercial copper(II) oxide has to be heated to react with hydrochloric acid (in my experience). If you make it and collect it by filtration, it's either very mushy (and a pain to work with), or you dry it well and then it won't react with acetic acid.


My CuO was collected by thermal decomp of Cu(NO3)2, i heated it at over 250 degree for 30 min.

and can maybe i think u shall use extra copper 2 nitrate.


Balanced equation

Cu(NO3)2 + Na2CO3 -> CuCO3 + 2 NaNO3

Balanced mass

241.6024 + 105.98861 =
Copper carbonate ~ 241(Cu(NO3)2(H2O)3)-62.005(NO3)-62.005(NO3)-54.046(trihy)+60.001(CO3)

+

2 Sodium Nitrate ~ 105.98861(NaCO3)-60.001(CO3)+62.00501(NO3)-22.989769(Na)

=
63.894 % of Cu(NO3)2
36.106 % of Na2CO3

and result
=
57.909 % of NaNO3
42.091 % of CuCO3

DraconicAcid - 7-3-2013 at 13:50

Quote: Originally posted by KonkreteRocketry  

My CuO was collected by thermal decomp of Cu(NO3)2, i heated it at over 250 degree for 30 min.

Then I strongly suspect it will be too calcined to react with acetic acid. You can probably get it to react with sulphuric or hydrochloric, though.

Metacelsus - 7-3-2013 at 18:53

Agreed. I have not had success with making cupric acetate via cupric oxide. Basic cupric carbonate works fine, though. If you really need acetate, you could try converting the oxide to the chloride with HCl, precipitating basic cupric carbonate with Na2CO3, and then reacting with acetic acid. Make sure you use excess acetic acid; I find the yield is poor when stoichiometric proportions are used.

elementcollector1 - 7-3-2013 at 20:35

...Electrolyze a vinegar solution with two copper electrodes?
It's in those home plating walkthroughs on Ask.com and Instructables, the copper dissolves to form a light blue solution. I did it when I needed a copper-plated quarter once.

CHRIS25 - 8-3-2013 at 05:18

Am I perhaps missing something here? I made copper acetate by putting clean oxidized free Copper chunks (Use 1 M Sulphuric acid to do this bit as a final dip after thorough cleaning) into 40% acetic acid solution, no heating required, can take between 6 hours to 24 hours depending on your amounts of course. Perhaps this is not what you are looking for?

[Edited on 8-3-2013 by CHRIS25]