Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Looking for uranium salts at non-insane prices, preferably from depleted feed-stock.

krfkeith - 7-3-2013 at 05:02

Sigh, uranium: such a useful element, and yet so hard to find in any form useful for the amateur chemist.

I've been wanting to play with some uranium related projects for awhile now. In particular, I'm in interested in trying to make some uranotype prints (as the name suggests, it is a non-silver process which uses uranium) as well as some uranium/vaseline glass. The former mostly uses, I think, uranyl nitrate. Whereas, according to to the few sources I could find on the subject, uranium glass was generally colored with approx. 1.5% by weight sodium diuranate. I'm more than aware of the dangers of these chemicals, and I know to treat them with respect and caution. I am in the process of constructing an electric furnace to melt rather small quantities of silica + other components in glass, and seeing as how glass melts already let of some pretty nasty fumes, I'm working to make sure it has proper venting to get rid of these. As such, I don't think the compounds would post any real hazard if handled correctly and generally not being stupid (i.e. not eating them).

Anyhow, the reason I mentioned depleted is that supposedly DU is something like 60% less radioactive than natural uranium. According to Theo Grey, some the uranium glass he has (specifically stuff made before depleted uranium was even being made) shows non negligible levels of radiation compared to similar items made with DU. The problem I have is two-fold. First of all, depleted or not, all of the sources I have found for uranium are insanely priced. Ore, while still expensive, seems to be the cheapest, but purifying the uranium from this seems like an unnecessarily difficult undertaking. There are more pure, reagent grade products that I have come across, but they are off-the-charts pricey. 2spi.com is the only source I have found that is unequivocally DU, but they want something like absurd like $70 for a single gram of uranyl nitrate. Not nearly enough to be useful for either of my projects. Ebay fared a little better, I found 10g of uranyl nitrate for $35. However, I am not sure if it is depleted (maybe that doesn't even matter, who knows), I don't know how reliable the source is if I want to do more of this for the future, and it's still a little pricey (but not out of sight).

If anyone here has any information on this subject, I would much appreciate it.

dontasker - 10-3-2013 at 16:02

I've been occasionally looking for similar stuff.

The thing that ruins any attempt of finding a source is that if you do any searches for obtaining some you end up with a Yahoo Questions with some twelve year old asking where he can buy some followed by some 90 people all frothing from the mouth about how even looking at uranium will make you die.

You also get pictures of babies with harlequin ichthyosis and how that is proof of the dangers of DU ammo.

Depleted Uranium is dangerous, but it's not radioactive enough to warrant all the freaking out over that aspect of it. It can for some very toxic salts, but chances are you will encounter far worse long before you get to the point of attempting experiments with uranium.

I have also encountered the stigma of trying to get some and having the general populace thinking you're trying to build an atomic bomb. Apparently most people don't know what "deleted" means.

It's a real shame people can voice such loud opinions without have any clue what it means and then be taken seriously.

kristofvagyok - 10-3-2013 at 16:20

If someone wants to get some uranium than it's aint so hard these days. On ebay a lot seller will help you to get a small or a larger size of uranium containing mineral for a relative low price.

Also there are other sellers who offer reagent grade uranium compounds, usually oxides and nitrates, mainly uranyl-nitrate what is a perfect starting point for experiments with this awesome compound.

And there is the third mentioned way with the vazeline glass, which has a really big problem with it: the glass. Getting out the few percent of U from that amount of silica requires a lot work and produces a lot toxic waste, so if I would need some U compounds I wouldn't choose that way.

Long ago I wanted to get a small sample of U on my shelf, so I've got a small sample of Uranophane from ebay for a few bucks. It contains more than 50% of U:

GammaFunction - 11-3-2013 at 18:06

Quote: Originally posted by dontasker  
I've been occasionally looking for similar stuff. ...

I have also encountered the stigma of trying to get some and having the general populace thinking you're trying to build an atomic bomb. Apparently most people don't know what "deleted" means.


I can get you as many bottles of deleted uranium as you want. I sell it by the liter, not by the kilo, however. :D

neptunium - 12-3-2013 at 06:07

lots of seller on ebay list some ore as geiger counter test source..the more active the source does not mean more U but other way more active daughter isotopes (like Radium) so you could probably get a low activity source with a descent amount of Uranium for a relatively small price..
grounded and treated the metal can be extracted by home chemist...I would love to do it (or even go mineral hunting!) but life job and bills keep me far away from fun as it gets!:(
there was a thread i think on here about extracting U metal from its ore....

SM2 - 12-3-2013 at 10:20

ruggles mine

kristofvagyok - 14-3-2013 at 12:58

Sorry for the "spam", but here is a recently made pics from my uranophane sample, it looks simply amazing!



Uranophane contains ~55% uranium, so if someone wants to extract some pure uranium, than this could be a good (legal) source.

DraconicAcid - 14-3-2013 at 13:00

That's a great pic- I assume the yellow fibres are the mineral uranophane. What are the black bits that look like beads?

IrC - 15-3-2013 at 02:59

I'm thinking Uraninite but the bead formation is intriguing. Then again many samples of Pitchblende I have seen are botryoidal instead of octahedral crystals so I guess not so surprising after all. I do not recall ever seeing it in the form of many tiny perfectly shaped beads like that but I have never had a sample of Uranophane to study.

Zephyr - 6-12-2013 at 21:21

I was looking into going mineral hunting for uranium at the Midnite open pit Mine here in washington but the legal implications/restrictions are very stringent.
Although I don't have any from them, Untied Nuclear offers depleted/undepleted uranium at very affordable prices.
some of their products include:

*3g Uranium metal, price varies on availability but <$40
*5 dram vial of uranium ore $18
*1/4lb chunks of ore, prices vary but are cheap when compared to other sources. ore types include toberite, carnotite, and uranite.

http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath...

This is a procedure which covers the extraction of Uranyl Tricarbonate from uranium ore.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/extract.htm

elementcollector1 - 6-12-2013 at 21:31

Pfft. That's not affordable. Far better to go prospecting, or look on Ebay.

plante1999 - 7-12-2013 at 04:58

Back then, I was seeing bottle of 4 ounces of uranyl nitrate/acetate from brand like fluka on US ebay, of course they would not sip to Canada... The bottles where like 150-200$ each.

Tdep - 7-12-2013 at 07:34
Quote:

I was looking into going mineral hunting for uranium at the Midnite open pit Mine here in washington but the legal implications/restrictions are very stringent


I live in a part of Australia that I can drive in a day to a few uranium mines including Olympic Dam, the world's largest uranium deposit.

I remember looking this up and finding outlandish fines for possession of radioactive substances, something like 10 years jail as well. This act seems pretty against it, not going to lie.I find it hard to believe I can't drive along, find some ore on the side of the road and pick it up without being arrested. Anyone had any experience with uranium prospecting? :)

Note, I do not have the facilities to handle or do anything with radioactive substances. I, at least in the forseeable future, will not ever be doing anything with uranium but it's on my doorstep and i'm curious.

MrHomeScientist - 9-12-2013 at 08:33

Quote: Originally posted by Pinkhippo11  
This is a procedure which covers the extraction of Uranyl Tricarbonate from uranium ore.

http://www.unitednuclear.com/extract.htm


I've been waiting forever for them to post Part 2 of that procedure. I want to know how much more processing is involved - I want to be able to isolate the pure metal from the ore, to add to my element collection.

I've been getting more and more interested in minerals and ores since I got into chemistry, and I think it would be a lot of fun to isolate elements from rocks. I'm thinking of starting with copper from malachite as an exercise. Sadly, I live on the coast and there aren't any interesting areas for rock prospecting anywhere nearby that I know of.

zed - 14-12-2013 at 13:00

Yer nicer military ammo is made with depleted Uranium. Somewhere in the world, little kids are picking up spent slugs, to sell as scrap.

elementcollector1 - 14-12-2013 at 13:07

Copper from malachite is easy - all you need is a furnace.
(I live on the opposite coast - there are plenty of opportunities if you look for them. Or you could go to a rock shop.)

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranyl in the Aqueous Chemistry section for extraction: it says to extract the tricarbonate with kerosene, remove this layer, and add strong nitric acid (this will form uranyl nitrate complexes which are more soluble in the aqueous layer). Then you could... do single displacement with aluminum in the aqueous layer?
I have a military surplus store in my town, but I've no idea if it sells ammunition. There is also a gun store, but I've no idea if it sells depleted uranium bullets.

zed - 14-12-2013 at 13:19

Aw, never mind. Seems like there might be an ordinance against private citizens using the stuff. Depleted Uranium rounds may have been available to the public at one time, but I'm not seeing much evidence of such availability now.

it seems DU rounds aren't pure Uranium

quantumcorespacealchemyst - 13-12-2014 at 22:56

according to united nuclear
http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&am...

"Uranium is used by the Military in projectiles - however it is very impure, being an alloy known as 'Ballistic Uranium'. Ballistic Uranium consists of Uranium mixed with large quantities of Tungsten, Titanium or Hafnium, which is unacceptable for laboratory use."

dermolotov - 14-12-2014 at 15:41

There's a bloke on "da intarwebs" that lived beside a depleted Uranium mine and brought out 4 kilogrammes of uranium ore. He washed it with copious amounts of acids and left it there to digest.
After a few purifying steps, he managed to get a reasonably pure yellowcake.

Here he is:
https://carlwillis.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/uranium-chemistr...

careysub - 14-12-2014 at 15:42

Quote: Originally posted by quantumcorespacealchemyst  
according to united nuclear
http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&am...

"Uranium is used by the Military in projectiles - however it is very impure, being an alloy known as 'Ballistic Uranium'. Ballistic Uranium consists of Uranium mixed with large quantities of Tungsten, Titanium or Hafnium, which is unacceptable for laboratory use."


As far as I know, the Army has always used U3/4Ti alloy, which is DU with 3/4% Ti. The Navy (in their Phalanx System) uses a 2% Mo alloy. The uranium should otherwise be highly pure (reduction from UF6 usually produces uranium of 99%+ purity)

DU pentrators are highly engineered, and the alloy performance is critical, so excellent quality control should be in place.

There is no reason that I know of that tungsten or hafnium would be present - I don't recall ever seeing a report on uranium ballistics that mention them.