Sciencemadness Discussion Board

New electrolysis using CuCl2

Fantasma4500 - 12-12-2012 at 10:46

Hello, im very new here, first thread, and ive wanted to write about this idea for some time now..
not sure how i got onto it but anyways here it goes..

the idea is fairly simple..

what you need is CuCl2 which can be made easily with a copper salt and HCl
Copper metal
a source of electricity
water

what you simply do, by my idea is that you dissolve a given quanity of CuCl2 in water, to then electrolyse it..
the whole new smart thing with this is, to use copper metal as cathode / anode..
i bought myself a nice shiny piece of copper, 500 x 40 x 5mm
you then insert the copper into the solution, and run electricity through this..

what should be formed would be (possibly) CuO
more CuCl2 (as the electrodes dissolve during electrolysis)
also possibly CuCl

anyways, the great about this isnt just one thing.. it should be a relatively clean process with OTC electrodes
also one more thing: Cu(ClO3)2 for use in TACC electrolysis

as i understand you need to boil the solution at last to make it go from hypochlorite to chlorate, when this process is done you should be left with relatively clean copper chlorate..
it can easily be further purified by converting into potassium chlorate (also most preferred i guess)
by a double displacement reaction..

Cu(ClO3)2 + K2CO3 > CuCO3 (s) + KClO3 (s)

i do realise theyre both precipitating, but as copper carbonate is so incredibly insoluble the KClO3 you would end up with by dissolving and recrystallization would be VERY pure as copper carbonate is nearly completely insoluble
(0.0001462g / 100mL)

others might prefer a quicker version where less recrystallization would be needed, where the copper salt would be more soluble than the KClO3

2KNO3 + Cu(ClO3)2 > Cu(NO3)2 (aq) + 2KClO3 (s)

another thing on this would be that Cu(NO3)2 isnt a bad thing either, and shouldnt be thrown away as it will upon heating towards around 200*C (less if im not wrong) make pure NO2 gas, if you cant see what this could be useful for then you wouldnt need it anyways (;

for this method you could possibly electroplate copper metal onto some other metal via CuSO4, but it would probably tear away relatively quickly

please be critical, im having a hard time understanding how much easier this is than the normal KCl electrolysis, and usually stuff like this have some little unseen reaction that ruins it all.

i really hope some of you guys are able to use this..


hissingnoise - 12-12-2012 at 11:12

Quote:
. . . the whole new smart thing with this is, to use copper metal as cathode / anode..

Electrooxidation requires an insoluble anode in order to evolve Cl2 at the interface ─ your set-up will simply plate copper from the electrolyte onto the cathode, and not much else . . .

Fantasma4500 - 12-12-2012 at 11:40

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Quote:
. . . the whole new smart thing with this is, to use copper metal as cathode / anode..

Electrooxidation requires an insoluble anode in order to evolve Cl2 at the interface ─ your set-up will simply plate copper from the electrolyte onto the cathode, and not much else . . .



hah i knew there was something impossible in this.. :)

but i guess platinum could be used for this?? also ive heard that a graphite rod covered in microfiber cloth shouldnt react directly with the chlorine gas..
so basically not use the same anode as cathode?

hissingnoise - 12-12-2012 at 13:20

Pt is ideal, especially for perchlorate but good-quality graphite will produce chlorate and doesn't (no diaphragm) react with chlorine!
It will, however, disintegrate somewhat as the electrolysis proceeds and while this is less than convenient it's still a cheap, easy route . . .

Fantasma4500 - 13-12-2012 at 06:55

Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  
Pt is ideal, especially for perchlorate but good-quality graphite will produce chlorate and doesn't (no diaphragm) react with chlorine!
It will, however, disintegrate somewhat as the electrolysis proceeds and while this is less than convenient it's still a cheap, easy route . . .



so .. if it doesnt react in any way, would it mean that wrapping a fibercloth around it would make it last instead of disintegrating into a sort of insoluble powder??

also i once saw that some plastics (i believe it was PVC) are able to lead electricity.. do you think using plastic for electrolysis could make soluble impurities?

hissingnoise - 13-12-2012 at 07:21

Suggested further reading ─ chlorates, etc!

Fantasma4500 - 13-12-2012 at 08:43

well thanks alot.. do you know if other types of oil would do the same as linseed oil, or if its specific good??
also about platinum, do you know where its possible to buy one? ive seen that theres been abit of sale on here, but its not very often as i see it..

hissingnoise - 13-12-2012 at 09:32

Conductivity of Pt is significantly lower than that of Cu or Al and more of this costly metal is required to allow for the high current densities used in electrolysis!

A good soak in linseed oil does offer some limited protection to graphite anodes . . .