Sciencemadness Discussion Board

hydrogen peroxide and pepper explosives

Vikascoder - 19-10-2012 at 06:56

On google i read that hydrogen peroxide and pepper forms a very powerful explosive . But what is the procedure to make that explosive will you please guide me . I will be very thankful to you.

triplepoint - 19-10-2012 at 07:44

From the little that I have read on the subject - from news reports of the London tube bombings, it requires a high concentration of H2O2 and piperidine, a little different than drug store peroxide and pepper.

Vikascoder - 20-10-2012 at 08:28

There is also a bomb made by reacting hydrogen peroxide and tang which can be detonated by H.M.T.D and camera flash . My question is what is the correct ratio of tang and H202 and what is the role of camera flash .

Ral123 - 20-10-2012 at 10:07

The right question here is, what fuel mixes readily and safely with H2O2, and what concentration is required for the particular composition to be for example No8 sensitive. All I know on the topic is that H2O2 can be vacuum dehydrated at low temperatures and that above like 80% in confinement can detonate on it's own.

franklyn - 20-10-2012 at 21:08

You are not going to produce a bang using H2O2 with concentrations
below 70 % or so. Getting it to that concentration has been discussed
in other threads , search www.sciencemadness.org H2O2. in Google or
use our own search function www.sciencemadness.org/talk/search.php
Paraformaldehyde is a fuel that is reported as achieving high velocity
detonation. Explosive peroxide mixtures are not transportable or storable
and only mixed right where they will be set off.

.

Bot0nist - 21-10-2012 at 04:12

You boys are probably much better off just making some TCAP or MEKP from you 3% - 30% hydrogen peroxide. Anything approching high test is quite a demon. I can just picture some poor kid standing over a beaker of HT peroxide with a pepper grinder... Scary.

Fossil - 21-10-2012 at 10:33

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
On google i read that hydrogen peroxide and pepper forms a very powerful explosive . But what is the procedure to make that explosive will you please guide me . I will be very thankful to you.


Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  

There is also a bomb made by reacting hydrogen peroxide and tang which can be detonated by H.M.T.D and camera flash . My question is what is the correct ratio of tang and H202 and what is the role of camera flash .


These are seriously two of the kewlest posts I have ever read. I mean seriously, how desperate and lazy are you?!

tetrahedron - 21-10-2012 at 23:24

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
My question is what is the correct ratio of tang and H202 and what is the role of camera flash .


H202 sounds like a very unstable isotope, i don't think you'll be needing the tang ;p

[Edited on 22-10-2012 by tetrahedron]

franklyn - 22-10-2012 at 09:03

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
There is also a bomb made by reacting hydrogen peroxide and tang which can be detonated by H.M.T.D and camera flash . My question is what is the correct ratio of tang and H202 and what is the role of camera flash .


The infamous Tang peroxide bomb developed and demonstrated by
Dr. Sidney Alford as shown in this video _
http://abcnews.go.com/US/video?id=5752104
was an empirical exercise by a pre-eminent researcher in the science
and engineering of explosives , not a youtube recipe. One could contact
the firm Alford Technology http://explosives.net/AboutUs.aspx
and request details but you will likely be ignored or reported to police
since there is no legitimate use or application for it.

.

PHILOU Zrealone - 22-10-2012 at 10:50

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
On google i read that hydrogen peroxide and pepper forms a very powerful explosive . But what is the procedure to make that explosive will you please guide me . I will be very thankful to you.

For sure a sternutatory (sneezing) and lacrymatory explosive... you know pepper clouds...
Unless it makes us cry from laughing...


[Edited on 22-10-2012 by PHILOU Zrealone]

PHILOU Zrealone - 22-10-2012 at 10:59

Quote: Originally posted by Vikascoder  
My question is what is the correct ratio of tang and H202 and what is the role of camera flash .

For the first question, its is indeed a good one especially if you speak about the famous Tang (R) drink powder (mainly suggar, ,fructose, and citric acid) and if you don't know the concentration of H2O2...

For the second question, are you serious?
-To take a picture of you unless it is to initiate the HMTD...up to you to choose the good one

Vikascoder - 24-10-2012 at 06:48

I have 50% w/w H202 but I don't know the process and correct ratio for making and detonating the explosive.

AndersHoveland - 25-10-2012 at 02:16

You can't just mix highly concentrated (>60%) H2O2 with organic matter. It could initiate a radical cascade chain reaction over several hours, especially in the presence of trace quantities of transition metal ions or sunlight. This could lead to spontaneous combustion, or possibly even detonation in the case of large quantities.

As for reactivity between piperidine and hydrogen peroxide, there is no immediate reaction, but I would expect there to be slow spontaneous oxidation over a period of time.
http://www.orgsyn.org/orgsyn/orgsyn/prepContent.asp?prep=cv9...

(basically, amines are a weak base, and bases catalyse the decomposition of H2O2. During this base-catalysed decomposition, hydrogen trioxide transiently forms, and this intermediate can attack the amine itself)

I would love to go into the details of all the chemistry here, it really is a fascinating subject, but unfortunately I do not have time right now.

franklyn - 25-10-2012 at 11:36

@ Vikascoder

You're on your own
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=608#pi...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3214#p...
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3214&a...

As AndersHoveland points out so much depends on what gets mixed
and the pH of the mix. H2O2 is decomposed in basic solution possibly
initiating a fire. It needs to be somewhat acid without promoting any
reaction , likely why Tang was used for fuel.

.

AndersHoveland - 30-10-2012 at 23:35

Typical stabilizers used for hydrogen peroxide include MgSO4 (magnesium ions interrupt the radical cascade), some types of silicates, and chelating agents (to bind to and render inactive traces of transition metal ions, which catalyze the decomposition of H2O2). The 3% solutions of H2O2 commonly available only contain a small quantity of phosphoric acid (the slight acidity helps stability since aqueous H2O2 slowly decomposes under alkaline conditions).

Highly concentrated H2O2 can spontaneously ignite after being left in contact with cloth for 0.5 to 4 hours. Not sure how much stabilizers would protect against this.

Magnesium hydroxide inhibits the formation of reactive radicals in alkaline solutions of hydrogen peroxide, interrupting the free radical chain reactions by catching the superoxide anion radicals.
Zeronian SH & Inglesby MK (1995) "Bleaching of cellulose by hydrogen peroxide". Cellulose 2: 265-272.


Here is some more information about the chemistry of hydrogen peroxide that might be relevent here. I copied and pasted from another thread:

Although alkaline solutions of peroxide failed to oxidize chlorate, it is nevertheless worth mentioning the high oxidizing power of such solutions. Although alkaline peroxides (such as CaO2) are stable in the absence of water, hydogen peroxide slowly decomposes in aqueous alkaline solution. A mixture of hydrogen peroxide and ammonium hydroxide (in a 1:3 ratio) acts as a highly reactive oxidizer, which can attack organic compounds, including elemental carbon. The reaction rate is negligible at room temperature, but when heated to 60°C the reaction becomes vigorous and self-sustaining. Such solutions are sometimes known as "base piranha". These solutions gradually decompose on standing; with a 1:1:5 volume ratio of NH4OH, H2O2, and H2O, respectively, the half-life times of peroxide were 4 hours at 50°C and 40 minutes at 80°C.

[Edited on 31-10-2012 by AndersHoveland]

caterpillar - 31-10-2012 at 15:44

Nice story about highly concentrated H2O2. One missile in FSU exploded. H2O2 was used as a gas generator in fuel pumps. Well but when they tried to refill the missile with this compound, yellow flame arose around filling hose. after few minutes the whole missile was in fire. This accident was caused by lead, contacted with H2O2. There was a mistake- a filter inside the filling hose had to be fixed by pure tin, but the standard alloy (40% Sn + 60% Pb) was used instead.

AndersHoveland - 1-11-2012 at 09:48

Quite a number a different common substances can act as catalysts for H2O2, causing decomposition. These include iron, chromium, manganese, copper, nickel, silver, and iodine. Ferric oxide or manganese dioxide are commonly used as catalysts for demonstration purposes. Even chloride ions (such as from NaCl or hydrochloric acid) can slowly catalyse the decomposition of H2O2.

caterpillar - 1-11-2012 at 15:57

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
Quite a number a different common substances can act as catalysts for H2O2, causing decomposition. These include iron, chromium, manganese, copper, nickel, silver, and iodine. Ferric oxide or manganese dioxide are commonly used as catalysts for demonstration purposes. Even chloride ions (such as from NaCl or hydrochloric acid) can slowly catalyse the decomposition of H2O2.


Yeah, and do not forget about blood. It is very efficient catalyst.