Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Chemicals in aircraft remover?

dennisfrancisblewettiii - 3-9-2012 at 12:55

Hello,

I'm interested in what kind of chemicals are in aircraft remover. Does anyone know some of the main chemicals? The solution that comes out of the canister looks thick like a gel. Does anyone know if there is a way to make this solution more viscous without losing too much of its paint stripping ability? Like viscous as water. I want it to be very fluid.

[Edited on 3-9-2012 by Genecks]

kristofvagyok - 3-9-2012 at 13:02

At first when I red "aircraft remover" I thought about this:D


But the I found the MSDS of what you thought about in 2 minutes. It says: dichloromethane 60-90%
methanol 2-10%
"tall oil acosix" 1-5%
Nonylphenoxypoly(ethyleneoxy)ethanol 1-3%
Ammonium hydroxide 5-15%.

The viscosity should be caused by the oil and the nonylphenoxystuff. The paint removing ability comes from the dichlomethane what goes away most easily from this list, so work with it fast and don't sniff too much from that.

Wouldn't this question would simply fit in the short questions thead?

[Edited on 3-9-2012 by kristofvagyok]

Adas - 4-9-2012 at 04:43

Quote: Originally posted by kristofvagyok  
At first when I red "aircraft remover" I thought about this:D


Lol, me too :D :D :D

Wizzard - 4-9-2012 at 07:33

I saw "Aircraft Remover" at my local Autozone a few weeks back- I asked my friend a similar question :) "I dont think this is packaged properly for high explosive content."

Vargouille - 4-9-2012 at 10:22

You could also try washing it with water. The methanol, ethanol compound, and ammonia will wash into it, and the "oil" can likely be easily separated from the DCM with a distillation.

By the by, "more viscous" means "thicker". For example, olive oil is more viscous than water. The opposite of viscosity is fluidity.

dennisfrancisblewettiii - 8-9-2012 at 16:48

Quote: Originally posted by kristofvagyok  
...

But the I found the MSDS of what you thought about in 2 minutes. It says: dichloromethane 60-90%
methanol 2-10%
"tall oil acosix" 1-5%
Nonylphenoxypoly(ethyleneoxy)ethanol 1-3%
Ammonium hydroxide 5-15%.

The viscosity should be caused by the oil and the nonylphenoxystuff. The paint removing ability comes from the dichlomethane what goes away most easily from this list, so work with it fast and don't sniff too much from that.
...

[Edited on 3-9-2012 by kristofvagyok]


So, DCM is pretty much what removes the paint?
Quote: Originally posted by Vargouille  
...

By the by, "more viscous" means "thicker". For example, olive oil is more viscous than water. The opposite of viscosity is fluidity.


Ok, also I meant fluidity. How could I possibly make this more fluid? But then again, if DCM really is the main component, then the rest of stuff is simply making the aircraft remover viscous, thus preventing the DCM from readily evaporating. Is that the right interpretation?

And since DCM is really just a solvent, probably mixing the stuff up with more DCM would just make it more fluid; but then if I had DCM, I could probably just use that to strip the paint off. However, if I'm reading correctly, a lot of people consider the DCM to be toxic and evaporate fast (I've used DCM and boiled it off before in a fumehood while doing experiments). I don't know how toxic the stuff is, but I don't think it would be good to breath.

I'm still curious as to whether or not DCM in itself is an effective car paint stripper. I'm not sure if it would have the same effect as aircraft remover, because it seems like when used on a vehicle, the stuff just kind of curls the paint up rather than solvate the paint and turn it into a solution.

[Edited on 9-9-2012 by Genecks]

Vargouille - 9-9-2012 at 04:17

I don't believe it actually can solvate most dyes and pigments. Rather it solvates the binder holding the paint to the car. The paste may, however, keep DCM in, but should not prove a problem to elevated temperature.

And I am mistaken. A water wash will only remove methanol and ammonium hydroxide with any certainty from the paste, and perhaps the nonylphenoxypoly(ethyleneoxy)ethanol, of which the information that I can find with a quick Google search is ambiguous. The "tall oil" will almost certainly be insoluble. The route I would take, provided I had all the necessary glassware, would be to first wash the paste to remove the methanol and the ammonium hydroxide. This introduces water to the paste, replacing the DCM:MeOH azeotrope with a DCM:H2O azeotrope, the later of which contains about 6% more DCM. Then, add the paste to a suitable vessel and distill to remove the DCM and any volatile components of the tall oil. Then, another distillation over the drying agent of your preference, and the DCM should be isolated.

Barring that, freezing the mixture might work, as the DCM should remain liquid with a freezing point of -96.7C. After that, it's a simple matter of removing it.

DCM Azeotrope Info

dennisfrancisblewettiii - 21-9-2012 at 12:55

I thought I posted in this again.
I'm not interested in isolating DCM.
I want to find a way to make the aircraft remover more fluid, so it can be sprayed.

I want it to maintain a large amount of it's strength, though, at least 50%. It has to still be able to accomplish what it does, such as removing paint from metallic surfaces, for instance, vehicles.

kristofvagyok - 21-9-2012 at 13:06

Quote: Originally posted by Genecks  

I'm not interested in isolating DCM.
I want to find a way to make the aircraft remover more fluid, so it can be sprayed.

The problem with spraying a liquid containing high percentages of DCM/methanol is that when it is vaporized the surface of the liquid will get multiplied and the DCM will turn into gas phase in no time from the heat of the air where it is sprayed.

Also DCM fumes are potentially carcinogenic, they could be adsorbed on your lungs high surface, so this is a baaaad idea.

Dr.Bob - 21-9-2012 at 16:55

A trick I have used to make DCM based paint stripper work better for some applications is to thin it with "paint thinner" (like for thinning varnish or cleaning oil paint brushes), which is basically some hydrocarbon/kerosene type solvent. This will dilute the thickener, making it easier to spread, as well as help dissolve some varnishes, but best of all, it is less volatile than DCM, so as the DCM evaporates (which it will do), the thinner keeps the paint from drying back to a solid, so it is easily scraped off.

I had tried a lot of ways to remove an old asphaltic type glue from a concrete floor (from old linoleum tiles long gone) so that I could repaint it with garage floor paint. Very few things even softened the black goo, and DCM striper would soften but evaporated so fast (in the south) that I could not scrap fast enough, and the fumes were powerful. But that mixture would soften it enough, after a while, to scrape off a lot in the first pass, and after three tries it was pretty clean, then I rinsed with cleaner solvents to remove the residues, oil, and thickeners.

dennisfrancisblewettiii - 23-9-2012 at 07:36

Interesting, Dr. Bob.

I suspect this would lead to something that needs to be experimented with. I feel as though we're going beyond the realm of theory and into experimentation, as the answers here seem to be limited. I suspect there is a theoretical answer, but I think the faster way to determine what I want would have to be through experimentation. I will look into the idea of using non-DCM based paint thinners (with hydrocarbon chains) in a DCM-based paint stripping product. It might work.

Thank you, all.