Sciencemadness Discussion Board

sodium nitrate rocket fuel

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 05:32

as i was not able to get potassium nitrate . i tried to substitue it by sodium nitrate
by doing the calculation i found the ratio of sodium nitrate to sugar is 7:3 . i also used 3:1 and and 2:1 but none of them made the satisfing results . some time there are white spots left behind and even some time black carbon is left . i could not find any accurate ratio . using these ratios i made my rocket but none of them fly . length of my rocket motor was 6.2 cm . inside diameter of cardboard tube was 15 mm .nozzle hole was 3.5mm.

i even tried using charcoal it was perfect but very powerful due to which my rocket motor bursted out.
i even tried making rocket candy by recrystallization method with sodium nitrate but it was just a very bad failure.

so i want to ask what is the correct ratio of sodium nitrate to sugar . how to make rocket fuel with sodium nitarte ?

[Edited on 13-4-2012 by Vikascoder]

weiming1998 - 13-4-2012 at 06:00

Sometimes theories just aren't correct, and even calculation can't work out the perfect ratio. NaNO3 is too hygroscopic, make KNO3 by acidifying NaNO3 with H2SO4 or oxalic acid, distil or bubble the NO2 produced through ice-cold water, heat the mix up and drop in KOH/K2CO3. Or if you have K oxalate, just react NaNO3 with that instead.

Edit: Double displacement reaction with K2CO3, NaNO3 and limited water also works to make KNO3!

[Edited on 13-4-2012 by weiming1998]

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 06:42

Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998  
Sometimes theories just aren't correct, and even calculation can't work out the perfect ratio. NaNO3 is too hygroscopic, make KNO3 by acidifying NaNO3 with H2SO4 or oxalic acid, distil or bubble the NO2 produced through ice-cold water, heat the mix up and drop in KOH/K2CO3. Or if you have K oxalate, just react NaNO3 with that instead.

Edit: Double displacement reaction with K2CO3, NaNO3 and limited water also works to make KNO3!

[Edited on 13-4-2012 by weiming1998]

i agree with you that theories are not correct everytime. being hygroscopic is not a problem for me . i dont want to make potassium nitrate now . i just want to make rocket fuel with sodium nitrate only . i uesd google i could only find that
NaNO3 70% charcoal 15% and sulphur 15% is also rocket fuel but i tried it just now its average . but i want to go wih sodium nitrate and sugar . so if anyone knows the exactratio or any other rocket fuel made by sodium nitrate so post it on this thread

weiming1998 - 13-4-2012 at 07:04

48NaNO3 + 5C12H22O11 -> 38CO2 + 55H2O + 24N2 + 24Na2CO3
Using this equation, you can work out that the ideal ratio is 4080 NaNO3:1655 sucrose, or rounded and simplified to approximately 2 2/3 parts NaNO3 per 1 part sugar. If there is carbon left, then it indicates that there were not enough oxidizers, and you should gradually add more NaNO3 until the carbon residue disappears.

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 08:25

sometime there is residue and sometime there is white substance that is due to more oxidizer but i could not get perfect result with nano3 and sugar so if anyone knows the accurate ratio please tell me

hyfalcon - 13-4-2012 at 13:24

Go back to the carbon motor that was blowing up and add 5% sodium bicarbonate to the formula to limit thrust.

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 20:14

Adding sodium bicarbonate seems nice idea but question what is the correct ratio of sodium nitrate and sugar and composition of any other rocket fuel made by sodium nitrate.

Bot0nist - 13-4-2012 at 21:29

Molar mass 84.9947 g/mol NaNO<sub>3</sub>
Molar mass 101.1032 g/mol KNO<sub>3</sub>

So, if you know the optimal ratio using potassium nitrate and sugar, then a little math can get you to where you want to go. You really should invest the time to learn significant figures, unit conversions, stoichiometry, and the other boring bits that makes chemistry possible. I know it is a drag to do, compared to mixing and testing rocket propellant, but if you learn it know it will reward you so, so much. Once you know it, it's like riding a bike, and it will open up so much to you. Trust me.

Check out this site. It really opened my eyes when first getting my feet wet.

<a href="http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/">From caveman to chemist.</a>
<a href="http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/stoich/index.html">Stoichiometry</a>

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 22:24

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  
Molar mass 84.9947 g/mol NaNO<sub>3</sub>
Molar mass 101.1032 g/mol KNO<sub>3</sub>

So, if you know the optimal ratio using potassium nitrate and sugar, then a little math can get you to where you want to go. You really should invest the time to learn significant figures, unit conversions, stoichiometry, and the other boring bits that makes chemistry possible. I know it is a drag to do, compared to mixing and testing rocket propellant, but if you learn it know it will reward you so, so much. Once you know it, it's like riding a bike, and it will open up so much to you. Trust me.

Check out this site. It really opened my eyes when first getting my feet wet.

<a href="http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/">From caveman to chemist.</a>
<a href="http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/projects/stoich/index.html">Stoichiometry</a>


i have already calculated stoichiometry ratios
48NaNO3 + 5C12H22O11 -> 38CO2 + 55H2O + 24N2 + 24Na2CO3 this is the equation according to which 48 moles of sodium nitrate react with 5 moles of sucrose
mass of one mole of sodium nitrate is 84.9947 so mass of 48 moles of sodium nitrate is 4079.7456 . molar mass of sucrose is 342.30 g/mol so mass of 5 moles of sucrose is 1711.5 . so it means 4079.7456 grams of NaNO3 react completely with 1711.5 grams of sucrose . i tried this ratio but it failed . some times theoritical work is not enough and all practicals can't be done only theoretical basis.

Bot0nist - 13-4-2012 at 22:26

Are you sure the sodium nitrate is completely dry? It is sooo hygroscopic. Also, are you ball milling? an intimate mix is vital to a powders performance. I use a 3 hour milling with lead media for my propellant (BP).

[Edited on 14-4-2012 by Bot0nist]

Vikascoder - 13-4-2012 at 23:13

i dried sodium sodium nitrate completely then i ball milled sodium nitrate and sugar for 10 hours then even i mixed and rubbed it between steel board and steel bar for 1hour it was extremely fine powder .i mixed 2.3 grams of sodium nitrate for each gram of sugar and i even alter the ratios to7:3 , 2:1 , 3:1 sometimes it leaves white spot after burning and some time black carbon residue but not perfect at any time and also rocket made by sodium nitrate and sugar does not fly . they just make lots of smofe and a sound.

CrEaTiVePyroScience - 14-4-2012 at 11:07

well if you can't find or buy potassium nitrate I really think you should make it and I found alot of different ways to make it got several youtube videos about it.

One method involves using:
ammonium nitrate: which can also be made or found in instant cold packs at the pharmacy
and potassium chloride: which is sold as a salt without sodium in alot of stores (goes under the brand "nosalt")

the video is on my youtube channel, creativepyroscience if you would have any questions let me know

Pulverulescent - 14-4-2012 at 11:27

Quote:
rocket made by sodium nitrate and sugar does not fly.

NaNO<sub>3</sub> contains more oxygen than KNO<sub>3</sub> and black powder made with it is slightly more energetic than that made with the latter . . .
Its hygroscopicity is a problem, though!

Vikascoder - 14-4-2012 at 20:08

one more thing i noticed about sodium nitrate and sugar . i measured out 2.3 grams of NaNO3 and 1 gram of C12H22O11 and started caramelising sugar and added NaNO3 and mix them then i take little bit from it and tried to burn it . it didnt burned well. but when i ignited the mixture of NaNO3 which was some what liquid it burned more energetically than potassium nitrate and sugar . so this fuel also have a potentiall which can be develobed .so the problem comes how to prevent caramelised sugar from solidifing

Adas - 15-4-2012 at 10:33

I can tell you one thing - it is better when the propellant leaves black carbon as when it leaves white oxidizer residue. For KNO3/Sugar rockets I was using 6KNO3/4Su ratio. Leaves a lot of carbon, but it's powerful and cheaper. 6/4 ratio should work well for NaNO3 also.

Bot0nist - 15-4-2012 at 10:52

burning KNO<sub>3</sub> and Sulfur leaves carbon. No way possible.

EDIT: sorry you mean sugar dont you... My bad Adas.

[Edited on 15-4-2012 by Bot0nist]

Vikascoder - 19-4-2012 at 08:31

Finally i got success with my sodium nitrate rocket fuel. I made my fuel with just hit and trial method no stoichiometry ratio was used . It was made by using sodium nitrate charcoal and sugar it is much more powerful then potassium nitrate and sugar.and its speed was recorded 3 the speed of potassium nitrate.