Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Why ban phosphorus and iodine and sell ephedrine and pseudoephedrine?

Why ban phosphorus and iodine and sell ephedrine and pseudoephedrine?

quicksilver - 17-3-2012 at 10:55

They are NOT "banned". Listed (DEA) and Watched (DHS) chemicals are simply kept track of. There are threshold limits on some, on others, if purchased on a retail commercial level, there is Federal forms to fill or notices as to "why" the material is needed in the quantity ordered. The whip comes down when the materiel is ordered in quantities large enough to make money for the cooks. Some grad student with a few grams of P in his home lab would have to do something else pretty stupid to get their attention. ....Such as getting high so the neighbors smell it. A "tip off" that PERHAPS the individual is thinking along the lines of drug mfg when a chemical lab is in view, etc.

For an arrest and trial to take place an enormous amount of money, time, & paperwork have to be justified. Those are economic realities. If an individual has a few grams of phosphorus or iodine and no exigent evidencury material to forward a reasonable belief that drug manufacturing (especially for profit) is taking place, the expenditure of funds would NOT get anyone a promotion. in fact it may ruin someone's career or get them fired. However that issue does not make the news. But a "rooky move" has either no pay-off or a negative one. Too many arrests by an LEO that do not result in a prosecution and that person looses any chance for promotion or more. Unsuccessful prosecutions by an assistant DA result in similar situations. Low-level arrests do not get supervisors excited about the contingent fiscal repercussions.

___EDIT

For further information see www.DEA.GOV
Understand List I & II chemicals, form 222. Written Order 21CFR Part 1309

Understanding Dept of Homeland Security (DHS) list of "WATCHED chemicals" www.DHS.gov or simply do a SEARCH on this Board for "DHS", "list of watched chemicals". Always obtain latest laws & lists directly from gov't site in question.

[Edited on 17-3-2012 by quicksilver]

entropy51 - 17-3-2012 at 11:43

Iodine is not banned and in fact is easy to purchase'

Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998

Note: I know that nowadays, ephedrine pills are locked behind counters, but serious drug-makers will get around that easy.

Just how will they do that?

Why don't you run down to the pharmacy and see how much ephedrine you can score? We will wait for you to come back.

Bot0nist - 17-3-2012 at 14:22

In my neck of the woods one can only get two retail units (~ 3 grams psuedoephedrine hcl combined, I think) of it a month, or three months. One also has to provide name, valid address, and DL #. This makes it much more controlled than phosphorous and iodine (iodide). I can get the later two without much hassle and no tracking papers in quantities suitable for hobby level experiments. I believe the restriction on psuedoephedrine has hindered domestic, small to mid sized cooking operations. No Now just get all our meth by the ton from cross the borders. ;-)

[Edited on 17-3-2012 by Bot0nist]

bfesser - 17-3-2012 at 18:22

Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998

A quick search came up for ephedrine as decongestion pills.
The sheer stupidity that the world will ban elements over keeping one drug that is used to unblock noses is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard!

According to Wikipedia, there are also 5 or 6 more drugs used for nasal decongestion. That's enough to provide nose unblockers for people who are even allergic to two or three nose-unblocking drugs. Why keep the precursor?

Yes, 'banning' elements <em>is</em> stupid. But they haven't been banned. Your understanding of the current situation is incomplete/flawed.

If you think <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoephedrine" target="_blank">pseudoephedrine</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> should be banned outright, do me (and possibly others) a favor, keep your idiotic short-sighted selfish opinions to yourself. You obviously don't suffer from severe allergies. Here's an idea. Let's ban <em>you</em> from receiving <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphine" target="_blank">morphine</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxycodone/paracetamol" target="blank">Percocet</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> after your next serious injury or surgery, because you might abuse them as precursors or sell them as illicit street drugs.

As one who suffers from severe seasonal (stupid to call them that when I have them year round) allergies, I often have to rely on pseudoephedrine to clear my sinuses just enough to be able to breathe so I can get barely four hours of sleep at night (that's how long one dose lasts). The other medications simply aren't effective. Trust me, I've tried most, if not all of the medications you claim to have seen—they don't work. So if you think millions of people should suffer just so you can more conveniently blow your face off with white phosphorus, I encourage you to keep your future opinions to yourself. Please.

Although I'm not particularly pleased about giving a signature & having my ID scanned when asking to purchase pseudoephedrine, I see the necessity behind it. I'm not particularly a fan of the newer difficulties in purchasing iodine/iodides (I don't mess with phosphorus) either, but I'm still able to get them. It's not really a big deal. In fact, it probably keeps P out of the hands of plenty of foolish thrill-seeking 'k3wls' who by (uninformed) association make us all look bad.

[Edited on 7/9/13 by bfesser]

weiming1998 - 17-3-2012 at 20:41

That's it, I'm deleting my original post.

I don't claim to understand the issue, and the original post was just what I think about the issue, however wrong it might be. I don't have allergies, I don't understand the intricacies of medicine, and I certainly don't understand the exact details of the law. So, if this thread was wrong in the first place, a moderator might as well put this in Detritus. And please stop the flaming. Thank you.

[Edited on 18-3-2012 by weiming1998]

[Edited on 18-3-2012 by weiming1998]

entropy51 - 18-3-2012 at 13:14

Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998

That's it, I'm deleting my original post.

I don't claim to understand the issue, and the original post was just what I think about the issue, however wrong it might be. I don't have allergies, I don't understand the intricacies of medicine, and I certainly don't understand the exact details of the law. So, if this thread was wrong in the first place, a moderator might as well put this in Detritus. And please stop the flaming. Thank you.

So you started a new thread without understanding the issue or doing enough research to be reasonably informed?

And when people point out that you don't know what you're talking about you consider it flaming?

You seem to have led a very sheltered life.

weiming1998 - 19-3-2012 at 00:58

Quote: Originally posted by entropy51

Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998

This is pointing out that I don't know what I'm talking about?

"If you think pseudoephedrine should be banned outright, do me (and possibly others) a favor, keep your idiotic short-sighted selfish opinions to yourself. You obviously don't suffer from severe allergies. Here's an idea. Let's ban you from receiving morphine or Percocet after your next serious injury or surgery, because you might abuse them as precursors or sell them as illicit street drugs.

As one who suffers from severe seasonal (stupid to call them that when I have them year round) allergies, I often have to rely on pseudoephedrine to clear my sinuses just enough to be able to breathe so I can get barely four hours of sleep at night (that's how long one dose lasts). The other medications simply aren't effective. Trust me, I've tried most, if not all of the medications you claim to have seen—they don't work. So if you think millions of people should suffer just so you can more conveniently blow your face off with white phosphorus, I encourage you to keep your future opinions to yourself. Please.

Although I'm not particularly pleased about giving a signature & having my ID scanned when asking to purchase pseudoephedrine, I see the necessity behind it. I'm not particularly a fan of the newer difficulties in purchasing iodine/iodides (I don't mess with phosphorus) either, but I'm still able to get them. It's not really a big deal. In fact, it probably keeps P out of the hands of plenty of foolish thrill-seeking 'k3wls' who by (uninformed) association make us all look bad."

Well, it is, but there is an element of insult as well.

For your first point, I admit that I was wrong for not doing my research before starting a thread.

Now, can we please stop arguing? It is not productive at all and gets nowhere.

GreenD - 19-3-2012 at 10:18

This is silly. How many people need iodine or phosphorous?

How many people need ephedrine?

Do the math, which one will cause a bigger profit loss if it is banned outright?

bfesser - 19-3-2012 at 10:34

weiming1998, I am sorry. I did not intend to insult or flame you. I merely meant to refute/attack your argument. Anything I said in my post was about your argument, not you as a person. My apologies. I often don't word things very well.

zoombafu - 19-3-2012 at 11:58

Its ridiculous, because the DEA estimates about 65-75% of the meth sold in the US comes from other countries (mostly Mexico) or is made in super labs (aka the type of people who could order mass amounts of iodine and pseudoephedrine from sigma because they have a cover), so their so called 'ban' only maybe eliminates a small portion of the meth on the market.

Also on a different note I also dislike the stuff that they have replaced ephedrine with, it doesn't work nearly as well as a decongestant.

edgeofacliff - 5-6-2012 at 22:30

The US Governments war on "meth cooks" in the US serves two purposes. First, it led to the incarceration of thousands of US citizens to ensure the profits of "Private prisons". Second, it left a huge hole in the market that was taken over by mexican drug cartels. Anyone think the billions of dollars taken each year by the cartels is not being used to influence policy here in the USA? Mexican meth, known as "Shards" can be purchased in every town in the US, coast to coast. The US Govt. has effectively imprisoned their competition. Follow the money! As for psuedoephedrine, certain drugstores whose name I wont mention, have multiplied all over the country from sales of this stuff. How nice it must be to have a product that sells out every order even with government controls. I will say it again, follow the money!

vmelkon - 18-8-2012 at 18:15

Here in Canada, you can buy pseudoephrine HCL pills easily. It is OTC. It isn't locked behind glass. There are a lot of brands. I looked at all of them and they all list 30 mg per pill. I'm guessing that is the maximum legal limit. If you are close to the border, cross over.

SM2 - 19-8-2012 at 07:27

1st of all, there is some quote from some DEA higher up (might even be that woman dir. at the time not so far back). Industry was concerned PPA ban and ephedring virtual ban would be just precursor to pseudo ban. Her response was crocidillian "oh, we NEVER" But you know it was never about any slight increase in strokes in women. If that was the case, why not ban all tobacco products! Still, it remains that PPA is only a bit less efficacious than pseudo in doing what it is supposed to do in your nasal cavity. And phenylephrine just FLAT PLAIN does not work. It is worse than a poor joke. I suppose they are afraid of people making miniscule amounts of meth with those two elements (which they call chemicals). The advertising world, knowing they couldn't win this one, figured, "oh well, we'll jump on the band wagon" where everyone pretends it works."

Funny thing, this does not even scrape the tip of the iceburg of evils which have occurred in Rockville. They have to leave pseudo reasonably available because they know phenylephrine works for no one.

Why are so many concerned w/ making meth? Be concerned with your public servants NOT doing their fuc^ing jobs!