Sciencemadness Discussion Board

any tips for the 19/22 guy?

Funkerman23 - 6-2-2012 at 10:04

Until I order the full 24/40 kit from UGT (my current organic kit is a 19/22 Pyrex set) I largely use the odd ball 19/22 size. But as I live in Dixie it seems the size is more of a rarity.. as dumb as this sounds any of you know sites or places that I will have greater luck when hunting 19/22 glass? For example, I thought looking for a reaction tube ( the ones in current Corning organic kits in 24/40, looks like a lower case Y) or a 50mm straight connection adapter would be easy...no such luck on ebay or any of the usual haunts ....and as most of us know The big guys don't sell to individuals easily... Just though I ask if anyone has a good "hunting spot".

[Edited on 6-2-2012 by Funkerman23]

kavu - 6-2-2012 at 10:23

I have noticed that 19/22 glassware is more common in the europe than in the states. Older english quickfit glassware is usually 19/22. I'm not sure if this is a matter of advances in glassblowing or what. You might have some luck trying to go through german or english ebays. I myself have enjoyed 19/22 ground joint glassware when working in 25 ml to 100 ml scale. The joints are wide enough to allow a good flow even in vigorous reflux and small enough to cut down on apparatus volume and losses in distillations etc.

hkparker - 6-2-2012 at 10:52

I've seen a pretty good selection of 19/22 on expediglass.com, worth looking around.

Funkerman23 - 6-2-2012 at 12:28

That site is impressive to say the least..not brand name but not too bad either. I wonder where this is made though...
Quote: Originally posted by hkparker  
I've seen a pretty good selection of 19/22 on expediglass.com, worth looking around.

Magpie - 6-2-2012 at 13:31

United Glass Technologies has 19/22. It's my favorite, also.

DougTheMapper - 6-2-2012 at 14:18

I just made the step up from 19/22 to 24/40. I have a lot of 19/22 I'd like to get rid of if you're interested in some extra stuff on the cheap.

I have:

1 triple-neck flask, 500mL
1 leibig condneser ~200mm
1 west condenser ~200mm
2 100mL flasks
1 50mL flask
1 25mL flask
1 105-degree vacuum take-off (and a second one which is cracked and fixed with teflon tape)
1 3-way Claisen adapter
1 still head
1 thermometer adapter and gasket
1 250mL addition/sepratory funnel with PTFE stopcock
1 hollow penny-head stopper

Nothing listed is chipped, cracked, or etched. I can provide images if you're interested. This ships straight from the great state of MI and is the remaining parts (unbroken!) of this kit which I bought used a few years ago.

-DTM

entropy51 - 6-2-2012 at 15:04

Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  
I just made the step up from 19/22 to 24/40. I have a lot of 19/22 I'd like to get rid of if you're interested in some extra stuff on the cheap.
Interesting. I've been moving from 24/40 to 19/22. My first glassware set and most of what I have is 24/40, but over the years I've been buying 19/22 and even 14/20. I always like to try reactions on a small scale before making a run that needs 24/40 size glass, and I find that even larger reactions often need smaller glassware for the final distillation.

And with a few adapters you can mix and match different joint sizes when you need to.

Most of my 19/22 is from United Glass Technologies.

My first 24/40 glass set was purchased from Fisher Scientific. I guess those days are long gone.



[Edited on 6-2-2012 by entropy51]

Funkerman23 - 6-2-2012 at 15:52

I have had only a few pieces of Chemglass so far but it is head and shoulders above most ..Hell ..only Kontes or Ace comes to mind as true equals..but at this moment( although more never hurt as you mentioned ;) ) the need is more towards the rarer/odder stuff currently. stopcocks, inlets, connection adapters, condensers for more volatile solvents, etc..I am by no means trying to crap on any help offer thus far. Rather please keep helping! but the kits are ( or seem to be) easier to find that the other parts to grow from the kit...thus the hunt for parts questions
Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  
I just made the step up from 19/22 to 24/40. I have a lot of 19/22 I'd like to get rid of if you're interested in some extra stuff on the cheap.

I have:

1 triple-neck flask, 500mL
1 leibig condneser ~200mm
1 west condenser ~200mm
2 100mL flasks
1 50mL flask
1 25mL flask
1 105-degree vacuum take-off (and a second one which is cracked and fixed with teflon tape)
1 3-way Claisen adapter
1 still head
1 thermometer adapter and gasket
1 250mL addition/sepratory funnel with PTFE stopcock
1 hollow penny-head stopper

Nothing listed is chipped, cracked, or etched. I can provide images if you're interested. This ships straight from the great state of MI and is the remaining parts (unbroken!) of this kit which I bought used a few years ago.

-DTM


[Edited on 6-2-2012 by Funkerman23]

hkparker - 6-2-2012 at 16:28

Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
That site is impressive to say the least..not brand name but not too bad either. I wonder where this is made though...


China I've heard. From my experience it hasn't been cheap quality though, its actually been thick as it should be and I haven't found any imperfections in mine.

DougTheMapper - 6-2-2012 at 17:52

*WARNING: RANT*

My gripes with 19/22 are mostly:

-Tiny flask sizes available, not useful for bulk recovery of solvents or synthesis of major reagents. HNO3 from nitrate salts, diethyl ether from EtOH, bulk synthesizing, purifying, and drying of simple alcohols and their halides and esters - all quite tedious at 200-300mL per session. Also annoyingly small when performing very dilute air-sensitive reactions like hydrazine sulfate from NaOCl. Any foaming at all quickly overwhelms the tiny flasks.

-Tiny (125mL) addition/separatory funnel sizes, leading to multiple batch fillings when separating nasties like bromine or chloroform, exposing operator to unnecessary danger. Also too small when adding large volumes of liquids like HCl to a chlorine generator or adding more solvent to a recovery setup.

-Less availability of parts/less part selection (imagine finding a thistle funnel or a pressure-equalizing addition funnel in 19/22 with a usable size!)

-Harder to clean flasks/recover solid product because of smaller orifices.

-200mm Condensers often need to be ganged to avoid overwhelming them with vapors when distilling from a 500mL pot, otherwise recovery rate is unbearably slow, esp. for low-boiling solvents. (I suppose I owe this one to not having more efficient condensers, but good luck finding a 19/22 Graham for a price lower than its 24/40 counterpart!)

-Low availability of self-contained heating mantles in sizes >500mL, requiring either soft mantles or oil/sand baths.

-Hard to find multi-neck 19/22 flasks with vertical joints, leading to addition funnels sticking out at queer angles and putting stress on the apparatus. (I broke a 250mL 2-neck this way when a condenser rotated in a clip because it was greased and there was a full addition funnel of water on one side of the flask... not entirely the flask's fault - I needed more clamps)

-For the same reason above, having several things connected to the same flask gets crowded in the small 19/22 size. Operating stopcocks gets annoying when you have to reach around behind a thermometer that needs monitoring, in between a hot still head and condenser, and all at strange angles because of the weird flask.

-19/22 flasks run the range of about 10mL to 500mL. 24/40 runs the gamut from 50mL to >20L! This makes your apparatus far more likely to be compatible with the surplus discharge of glass from universities, businesses, medical centers, etc.

I do agree with the fact that 19/22 might be better suited for smaller, experimental 'pilot' reactions. Without scaling up, these can also be done in larger apparatus since a 50mL flask is just as common in 24/40 as in 19/22. 19/22 is, however, less expensive as a starter kit - I've seen whole sets on ebay for less than $100USD, and 24/40 runs $150 - $400 for a decent kit. This is why I have a set of 19/22.

In short, 19/22 can't always do what 24/40 can, and 24/40 can usually do what 19/22 does, plus a whole lot more - as long as you don't mind the added cost. I'm not hell-bent on pushing 24/40, but I'm not an advocate of anything else for typical amateur chemistry at typically useful quantities, exceptions made for niche applications. I guess that's just the nature of my work though - if I'm going to make something, I'm going to test it at 1/10 and then make ~500g or >500mL to store for later use.

*END RANT*

I found my replacement 19/22 105-deg vacuum takeoff at CTech glass. They sell to individuals and have a fair selection of adapters from 24/40 to 19/22 to 14/20 to 10/30 and everything between.

See: http://www.ctechglass.com/glassware-c-46.html

DTM

Funkerman23 - 6-2-2012 at 18:04

To be fair: had I known then what I know now I would have bought the 24/40 kit from UGT and ran like a cheap pair of stockings from there..Because you are absolutely right, what I have now is only for little things and test rxns. BUT that is all I need that kit for: to test ideas and to do small scale work. Once I am in full swing I intend to get a 24/40 kit( perhaps swapping out the west condenser for s Graham condenser and the 500 RBF for a 3 straight or slightly angled neck 500Ml RBF)and grow from there. But I needed a portable kit( read ;carry case with the foam insert to keep it from smashing) and the instructions from the corning set.... so when I saw a used set on ebay I went after it.

Have no doubt: if I had enough cash I'd build a full blown shed lab and stock it with enough equipment& supplies to put GA Tech to shame.

[Edited on 7-2-2012 by Funkerman23]

[Edited on 7-2-2012 by Funkerman23]

Intergalactic_Captain - 6-2-2012 at 19:41

All things considered, being in GA I'd say 19/22 might be the better bet - If for no better reason than you're in meth country and if anything ever happens the smaller 19/22 "experimental size" stuff might look better (or slightly less bad) in the eyes of the law than a "production scale" 24/40 setup. I have no idea what your intentions are, but that might be something to keep in mind - No matter what you're doing, if the cops investigate you will get railroaded.

That said, all of my glassware is 19/22 - When I first started piecing together an order, the prices were comparable with 19/22 occasionally a bit more expensive than 24/40 for otherwise identical items - The only thing that was definitely cheaper was a three-necked 500ml flask - That was the dealbreaker, as there were 2-3 companies I was looking to place a single order with...

Having worked with 14/20, 19/22, and 24/40, I'd stick with 19/22 - Only gripe is that it's a pain in the ass to clean - Other than that, I found it the perfect size for small-scale reactions. Bulk solvent distillation is a moot point, as apparatus for that sole purpose can be easily and cheaply cobbled together from steel and copper without the need for expensive and fragile glass - My go-to solvent still was a 3' copper liebig with a paint-can cap soldered to it - Perfect for stripping, break out the fancy glassware when the bulk of the work is already done.

If you're not overly paranoid, keep your eyes open on ebay for 19/22 gear - It's not as common, but when it pops up not many people bid on it - 24/40 seems to be all the rage. Look up DP-Glassblowing (sp?) - He deals with a lot of surplus and will let you use his buy-it-now options as a sort of layaway, holding the items for a while until you're finished and ready to pay for one-box shipping.

...Personally, the next setup I'm pricing out is 14/20 - Fell in love with it after a couple of microscale chem labs, novel but pretty versatile when you're primarily interested in proof-of-concept work.

jamit - 6-2-2012 at 22:39

Which is better 19/22 or 24/40? I have both 19/22 and 24/40 and the answer depends on your purpose and the amount you want to distill.

For larger bulk OTC solvents, 24/40 is preferred... of course you can do it with 19/22 but the largest rbf is about 500ml and it holds safely only half that volume when you distill. You can buy adapters to get around this problem.

However for most home lab, 19/22 is fine.
That's my take on the issue of 19/22 vs 24/40!:D

Funkerman23 - 7-2-2012 at 06:19

My intention, other than the hobby aspect of it is to add to my current college ambitions( starting at one school , plan on going to another later on) as well and work with carbon dioxode conversion as well as my syntheic hydrocarbons research.. on another note: barring computer error I'd like to Make the point that this is my SECOND reply to this comment as the first has gone missing.As to the rest since when has a chemist NOT been accused of evil doing or painted as a crook? But I'll save my rants for the legal& soc. section.
Quote: Originally posted by Intergalactic_Captain  
All things considered, being in GA I'd say 19/22 might be the better bet - If for no better reason than you're in meth country and if anything ever happens the smaller 19/22 "experimental size" stuff might look better (or slightly less bad) in the eyes of the law than a "production scale" 24/40 setup. I have no idea what your intentions are, but that might be something to keep in mind - No matter what you're doing, if the cops investigate you will get railroaded.

That said, all of my glassware is 19/22 - When I first started piecing together an order, the prices were comparable with 19/22 occasionally a bit more expensive than 24/40 for otherwise identical items - The only thing that was definitely cheaper was a three-necked 500ml flask - That was the dealbreaker, as there were 2-3 companies I was looking to place a single order with...

Having worked with 14/20, 19/22, and 24/40, I'd stick with 19/22 - Only gripe is that it's a pain in the ass to clean - Other than that, I found it the perfect size for small-scale reactions. Bulk solvent distillation is a moot point, as apparatus for that sole purpose can be easily and cheaply cobbled together from steel and copper without the need for expensive and fragile glass - My go-to solvent still was a 3' copper liebig with a paint-can cap soldered to it - Perfect for stripping, break out the fancy glassware when the bulk of the work is already done.

If you're not overly paranoid, keep your eyes open on ebay for 19/22 gear - It's not as common, but when it pops up not many people bid on it - 24/40 seems to be all the rage. Look up DP-Glassblowing (sp?) - He deals with a lot of surplus and will let you use his buy-it-now options as a sort of layaway, holding the items for a while until you're finished and ready to pay for one-box shipping.

...Personally, the next setup I'm pricing out is 14/20 - Fell in love with it after a couple of microscale chem labs, novel but pretty versatile when you're primarily interested in proof-of-concept work.

Hexavalent - 7-2-2012 at 08:12

I once bought a complete set from eBay that was 19/26 (19/22 in the USA), used lightly but no physical defects. It cost me just under $70 and for my money I got a 1L RBF, 100ml RBF, 50ml RBF, Stopper, 50cm Liebig, Vacuum take-off, still head and thermometer adapter. Although sometimes I really need a 3-neck flask, I find you can nearly always find an inconvenient, but adequate subsitute. This size of joint is great - I recently did a small hydrazine synthesis, it worked fine. Today, I distilled 500ml of xylene isomers. Again, no problems. It is a great compromise between the big and the small. Although used parts are harder to find, I would recommend it for the home lab.

Also, I don't have any keck clips at all, so I always just clamp everything really securely and support raised collection flasks on a lab jack or just some HDPS foam that I got lots of for free at the TV shop.

golfin_ernie - 7-2-2012 at 09:35

Check out this lab auction site...

http://www.labx.com/v2/labauction/auctionadsorig.cfm?aucsele...

Hexavalent - 7-2-2012 at 13:17

We already knew about that:/

Funkerman23 - 7-2-2012 at 13:24

Quote: Originally posted by Hexavalent  
We already knew about that:/
true...as good as that site is ,they are more for the Big lab guys or someone with a lot more cash.. right now I am a college student with just enough grant money to afford to go and not much else....

S.C. Wack - 7-2-2012 at 15:29

Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
I thought looking for a reaction tube ( the ones in current Corning organic kits in 24/40, looks like a lower case Y) or a 50mm straight connection adapter would be easy

Are these nonstandard parts outside Corning sets? Maybe that's the problem? Are they available new at the sites mentioned above?

I for one can get by pretty well without any odd 19/22 parts. It's true that the niftier condensers rarely come up in 19/22.
Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  
*WARNING: RANT*

Maybe you shouldn't be doing Raschig in 19/22-ware?
19/22-24/40 adapters eliminates much of this.
Make your own mantles, powered with a heat gun.

Funkerman23 - 7-2-2012 at 16:05

You make a very fair point on that, I simply used it as an example but I can't say I am in dire need of that tube.( if anything I need to find some penny head stoppers, a bleed tube and inlet adapters...)I was just wondering why 19/22 seemed to be so hard to find& where I might have better luck in my hunts.Again had I known then what I know now I would have bought the 24/40 kit and never looked back.
Quote: Originally posted by S.C. Wack  
Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
I thought looking for a reaction tube ( the ones in current Corning organic kits in 24/40, looks like a lower case Y) or a 50mm straight connection adapter would be easy

Are these nonstandard parts outside Corning sets? Maybe that's the problem? Are they available new at the sites mentioned above?

I for one can get by pretty well without any odd 19/22 parts. It's true that the niftier condensers rarely come up in 19/22.
Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  
*WARNING: RANT*

Maybe you shouldn't be doing Raschig in 19/22-ware?
19/22-24/40 adapters eliminates much of this.
Make your own mantles, powered with a heat gun.

Hexavalent - 8-2-2012 at 09:13

Perhaps we should just buy a large quantity of 24/40 to 19/26 reduction and expansion style adapters. . . that would mean much easier shopping for us odd-size guys.

Funkerman23 - 8-2-2012 at 10:05

Yeah, but are there any problems that are unique to using an adapter? aside from the usual space and reagent constraints? I am still relatively new to jointed glass so any experience wrought tips & advice is very much appreciated.. But yes there is not much in this smaller size it seems. I am starting to see why College and large laboratory glassblowers charge what they do..
Quote: Originally posted by Hexavalent  
Perhaps we should just buy a large quantity of 24/40 to 19/26 reduction and expansion style adapters. . . that would mean much easier shopping for us odd-size guys.

Magpie - 8-2-2012 at 10:44

My 19/22 Kontes kit was one of my first lab purchases 8 years ago. It has served me well. However, the largest RBF is 500mL and I often need a 1000mL flask. So I bought adapters from Expedia or Kantu (I buy from both). This seems to be a satisfactory solution.

The 19/22 West condenser and Hempel columns are 200mm I believe. They may seem short but I never have felt the need for a longer condenser. Maybe I'm patient and don't push the distillations. I also usually use ice-water as coolant.

I have wanted a longer fractionation column (Hempel) at times. But I'm not totally convinced that it would have been a significant improvement.

Someday I may have a full 24/40 set, but it will be an evolution over time. I don't have to have it right now.

entropy51 - 8-2-2012 at 11:04

Quote: Originally posted by Magpie  
Someday I may have a full 24/40 set, but it will be an evolution over time. I don't have to have it right now.
Magpie, you have done more chemistry with your 19/22 set than most of us will ever accomplish with 24/40 or any other joint size!

Funkerman23 - 8-2-2012 at 15:18

SCORE!!!! Expediglass has Cow adapters in 19/22 AND 24/40! and more inlet adapters than anywhere else! sweeeeet. Ahem

[Edited on 8-2-2012 by Funkerman23]

DougTheMapper - 8-2-2012 at 15:50

It's ok, we're some of the very few who understand that kind of excitement. :D

entropy51 - 8-2-2012 at 16:52

Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
SCORE!!!! Expediglass has Cow adapters in 19/22 AND 24/40! and more inlet adapters than anywhere else! sweeeeet. Ahem

[Edited on 8-2-2012 by Funkerman23]
So does United Glass Technologies, and I don't think their glass is Chinese.

Funkerman23 - 8-2-2012 at 17:22

....It had not occurred to me to check them. still I'll take what good news I can find..
Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Quote: Originally posted by Funkerman23  
SCORE!!!! Expediglass has Cow adapters in 19/22 AND 24/40! and more inlet adapters than anywhere else! sweeeeet. Ahem

[Edited on 8-2-2012 by Funkerman23]
So does United Glass Technologies, and I don't think their glass is Chinese.

Funkerman23 - 13-2-2012 at 16:23

U2U sent( albeit a while ago?. Hope this turns out for the best!
Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper  
I just made the step up from 19/22 to 24/40. I have a lot of 19/22 I'd like to get rid of if you're interested in some extra stuff on the cheap.

I have:

1 triple-neck flask, 500mL
1 leibig condneser ~200mm
1 west condenser ~200mm
2 100mL flasks
1 50mL flask
1 25mL flask
1 105-degree vacuum take-off (and a second one which is cracked and fixed with teflon tape)
1 3-way Claisen adapter
1 still head
1 thermometer adapter and gasket
1 250mL addition/sepratory funnel with PTFE stopcock
1 hollow penny-head stopper

Nothing listed is chipped, cracked, or etched. I can provide images if you're interested. This ships straight from the great state of MI and is the remaining parts (unbroken!) of this kit which I bought used a few years ago.

-DTM