Sciencemadness Discussion Board

drying isopropanol

reckless explosive - 23-1-2012 at 13:43

i have some 91% isopranol from the drug store and i wanted to know if calcium chloride could dry it to anhydrous because i have no distillation kit, and no source to buy anhydrous isopropanol.and i was wondering if it would require a large amount of CaCl2 because i dont want to waste a huge amount just for a little bit of isopropanol

entropy51 - 23-1-2012 at 13:48

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
i have some 91% isopranol from the drug store and i wanted to know if calcium chloride could dry it to anhydrous because i have no distillation kit, and no source to buy anhydrous isopropanol.and i was wondering if it would require a large amount of CaCl2 because i dont want to waste a huge amount just for a little bit of isopropanol
I can't believe that you started a new thread on this. It has been covered here so many times that it isn't funny.

SEARCH and ye shall find.

Hint: K2CO3.

If you didn't know that you can't dry alchohols with CaCl2 then you probably don't need isopropanol.

[Edited on 23-1-2012 by entropy51]

reckless explosive - 23-1-2012 at 13:54

okay one the search option sucks, two CaCl2 is the only dessicant i have other than sodium hydroxide and i cant get ahold of K2CO3, and three i just need it to extract cinnameldahyde(i dont care if thats spelt wrong) and i wanted best possible yield...

UnintentionalChaos - 23-1-2012 at 14:21

Use google's search which is superior. Type in site:sciencemadness.org dry isopropanol as the search terms and see what comes up.

Hexavalent - 23-1-2012 at 15:09

Have a look in the lawn/garden store for K2CO3.

Bot0nist - 23-1-2012 at 15:13

HIT THE LITERATURE! There is literally thousands of suitable drying agent charts on the net. Plus Almost every basic chem text covers this. Please spend some time in the library and read the basics. Vogel is a good place too, check out the SciMad library.

zoombafu - 23-1-2012 at 17:41

Even if you used lots of drying agent, it would still be better to distill then dry, because the 8% water will be a lot easier to get rid of by distillation. Its the last 1% or less that the drying agent will be good for.

reckless explosive - 23-1-2012 at 18:15

to just shut this down and im very sorry for wasting all you guys time but could 91% be used for the extraction from cinnamon atleast to get a little bit i dont need it in massive quantities for an experiment just to have to add to collection of self made chemicals...and botonist i agree with you 100% on that literature is the best the only problem is y school library has no chem books nor does my local library trust me i checked there first before coming here, but if you could offer up the name of a few amazing books for the begginer i could easily tell my librarian(its good being friends with everyone in your school) to order the in...i know all of this is way off my original topic but it will stop me from posting more seemingly stupid topics later on...

UnintentionalChaos - 23-1-2012 at 18:29

Quote: Originally posted by zoombafu  
Even if you used lots of drying agent, it would still be better to distill then dry, because the 8% water will be a lot easier to get rid of by distillation. Its the last 1% or less that the drying agent will be good for.


91% is an azeotrope.

[Edited on 1-24-12 by UnintentionalChaos]

entropy51 - 23-1-2012 at 18:46

Quote: Originally posted by zoombafu  
Even if you used lots of drying agent, it would still be better to distill then dry, because the 8% water will be a lot easier to get rid of by distillation. Its the last 1% or less that the drying agent will be good for.
Try distilling it and you will find that the distillate has exactly as much water as you started with.

That's what UnintentionalChaos means by an azeotrope.

Don't you guys ever read chemistry books?

I have never seen so much misinformation posted on this forum as is coming from the latest crop of new members.

Bot0nist - 23-1-2012 at 20:40

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
to just shut this down and im very sorry for wasting all you guys time but could 91% be used for the extraction from cinnamon atleast to get a little bit i dont need it in massive quantities for an experiment just to have to add to collection of self made chemicals...and botonist i agree with you 100% on that literature is the best the only problem is y school library has no chem books nor does my local library trust me i checked there first before coming here, but if you could offer up the name of a few amazing books for the begginer i could easily tell my librarian(its good being friends with everyone in your school) to order the in...i know all of this is way off my original topic but it will stop me from posting more seemingly stupid topics later on...




Here are a couple resources to get you started.

http://cavemanchemistry.com/oldcave/
Do all the projects you can. DON'T skip unit factors and stoichiometry. Read up on significant figures too. These are some really boring bits of chemistry, but they are essential to everything and once you know them it's like riding a bike. The rest of the projects are really fun and hands on.

http://library.sciencemadness.org/library/index.html
Some of the best books for advanced chemistry. read at your leisure or download for free.

neptunium - 23-1-2012 at 21:01

kids are killing me theses days!! i whish i had the internet back when i started chemistry!
or even a computer for that matter!
i spent hours and hours at the library and book stores...got a whole collection of books over the years, and still learn today!

i`ll give you that though .things are much different about the whole science and chemistry hobby than they were 20 years ago thats true ,
ever heard of salting out?

Dr.Bob - 24-1-2012 at 07:57

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
could 91% be used for the extraction from cinnamon at least to get a little bit? I don't need it in massive quantities for an experiment just to have to add to collection of self made chemicals...


Traces of water will not interfere with the extraction of most chemicals with alcohols. 50-90% ethanol is often used for extracting food grade extracts. Certainly for some chemicals, lower water is best, but for many extractions 10% water will not bother them. I would suggest that you might be able to buy 95% ethanol in small amounts for extracts as well. (If over the legal age...) or at least distill small amounts from other sources.

reckless explosive - 24-1-2012 at 17:10

wow once i admitted i was stupid and wrong thats when all the nice comments came thats awesome. but botonist thank you ALOT because i literally have no paper literature in my town so that will help alot and i have read up on a few of the things you mentioned just not alot and obviously not enough. and thank you dr.bob the only proble is the product you talk about is everclear and where i live its illegal to sell it and im not old enough anyway, i think the strongest ethanol i could sneak is 72.5% as bacardi 151. and i think once i get my shipment of glassware and stuff i could cobble together a very basic distillation kit and aybe if i do it in a small enough quantity not to get caught but i could make my own ethanol(shine method:D) and i could of swore i've seen people dry ethanol with CaCl2...and yes i know there is a difference from isopropanol and ethanol..

Bot0nist - 24-1-2012 at 17:27

Find a drying agents chart and print it out to hang in your lab space.

It will probably be hard do get near anhydrous EtOH with a rigged-up still, unless you make it good, with a column and an efficient condenser, I guess copper would be traditional. There are some good plans on the net for stills, but you will have to spend some money to build it. Might be best to just invest in some good glass if you can. You won't regret it.. It's easy to get 50%-80%, but > 90% takes me a couple of runs with my 24/40 setup (from white table wine:12.5% ABV), without using desiccants that is.

You can probably find "Denatured Alcohol" at Home Depot or Walmart in the solvent section by hardware. It's usually fairly dry. Around 95% I would hope. And just some trace impurities to make un-consumable. It's cheap as dirt, but you may have to be 18 to buy it.

[Edited on 25-1-2012 by Bot0nist]

reckless explosive - 24-1-2012 at 17:33

okay i will do that and i looked up the msds of the denatured alcohol at true value(closest hardware store and they have sooooo much) and it said it was 80% EtOH 19% i believe is methanol and the other 1% is denatonium benzoate and i think its like 7 dollars a quart which i think would be worth it if it didn't have so much methanol.

entropy51 - 24-1-2012 at 18:17

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
wow once i admitted i was stupid
I doubt that you're supid, but ignorance is easly remedied by spending some time with those ancient devices called "books" of which there is a nice selection in the forum library.

And the forum search engine doesn't really suck as bad as you seem to think. Just use it often enough to learn its quirks.

If you really need dry isopropanol, the hardware stores sell a gasoline additive (anti-freeze) called "Iso-Heet" which is very nearly pure isopropanol. Some people distill it, but I normally use it straight out of the bottle.

Bot0nist - 24-1-2012 at 18:22

The MeOH will be fine in most reactions and extractions. Just not for consumption, of course. It is well worth the money. Try and pick up useful solvents when you can. Acetone, EtOH, MeOH, IPA, xylene, hexane, ether. All at the local hardware strores. Your 91% IPA should work fine. I recently used it for a successful piperine extraction with 91% IPA and it worked like a charm. The workup and pics are in a piperine extraction thread here somewhere. A subject search of piperine and 91% IPA will find it.

reckless explosive - 25-1-2012 at 15:00

thanks everyone for your amazing help and botonist i know what you mean by stocking up on solvents and once i get some money im gonna get a gallon of the alcohol a gallon of M.E.K and a gallon of acetone and xylene:D and also does anyone know the name of the garden related product that contains K2CO3 i dont want spoonfeed terribly(even though i think i already have been) but i dont wanna look suspicious picking up every single product to read the ingredients..

entropy51 - 25-1-2012 at 15:23

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
does anyone know the name of the garden related product that contains K2CO3 i dont want spoonfeed terribly(even though i think i already have been) but i dont wanna look suspicious picking up every single product to read the ingredients..
NIH has a household product database that you can search by name of ingredient. It can be quite useful. The link is: http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/products.htm

reckless explosive - 25-1-2012 at 16:13

thank you that will help ALOT

reckless explosive - 25-1-2012 at 17:18

okay i searched K2CO3 and the product with the highest percentage i've never heard of and it only containned a max of 5%...

entropy51 - 25-1-2012 at 17:25

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
okay i searched K2CO3 and the product with the highest percentage i've never heard of and it only containned a max of 5%...
The local hardware store once had aphid dust or some such that was 85% K2CO3. I didn't buy it because I had enough already, so I don't recall the name of it. That product might still be available.

Arthur Dent - 25-1-2012 at 17:30

Quote: Originally posted by reckless explosive  
okay i searched K2CO3 and the product with the highest percentage i've never heard of and it only containned a max of 5%...


You can buy very pure food grade Potassium Carbonate at wine/beer making supplies shops, and also some chinese grocery stores, it is an ingredient used to prepare ramen noodles.

Robert

k2976 - 25-1-2012 at 19:04

3A molar sieves

reckless explosive - 26-1-2012 at 13:24

ill check for the aphid and where i live there are no wine/beer making stores or chinese markets i wish there was most sell alot of organic acid.

entropy51 - 26-1-2012 at 19:20

I haven't a clue if it would work, but you might try anhydrous Na2CO3 made by heating baking soda.

Neil - 26-1-2012 at 19:27

Check for places that sell water treatment kits. Often they stock high grade (food grade?) potassium carbonate for water softeners.

reckless explosive - 28-1-2012 at 11:05

ill try that entropy thanks