Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Are these reactions possible? (New organic peroxide with thermobaric OB)

Adas - 3-11-2011 at 08:51

I've got a new idea, I wanna ask if it is possible.
Here are the reactions:

CH3OH + 3 Cl2 ----> CCl3OH + 3 HCl
CCl3OH + 3 CH3ONa ----> (CH3O)3COH + 3 NaCl
2 (CH3O)3COH + BaO2 ----> (CH3O)COOC(OCH3)3 + Ba(OH)2

It would be an interesting compound to make, right?

ScienceSquirrel - 3-11-2011 at 08:56

Err,

CCl3OH ----> CClO2 + HCl

I think you have more holes than chemistry there!

Adas - 3-11-2011 at 09:15

Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Err,

CCl3OH ----> CClO2 + HCl

I think you have more holes than chemistry there!


You too, where is the other chlorine on the right side? ;) hehe

ScienceSquirrel - 3-11-2011 at 09:26

Quote: Originally posted by ScienceSquirrel  
Err,

CCl3OH ----> CCl2O + HCl

I think you have more holes than chemistry there!



Ooops, I put the 2 in the wrong place.

Really these reactions would not take place or the products would just fall apart.
Just because you can write a structure does not mean that it can exist.


Adas - 3-11-2011 at 09:38

Sure, thanks :)

AndersHoveland - 3-11-2011 at 14:56

Quote: Originally posted by Adas  
are these reactions possible?
CH3OH + 3 Cl2 ----> CCl3OH + 3 HCl
CCl3OH + 3 CH3ONa ----> (CH3O)3COH + 3 NaCl
2 (CH3O)3COH + BaO2 ----> (CH3O)COOC(OCH3)3 + Ba(OH)2


If chlorine is passed into methanol, a dangerously sensitive/unstable explosive, methyl hypochlorite CH3OCl, can form. It is not possible to have a hydroxyl group on the same carbon atom as a chlorine atom. The "CCl3OH" would immediately break apart into COCl2 and HCl. It is also generally not possible for three methoxy, -OCH3, groups to be an the same carbon.

Neither would there be any reaction between tert-butyl alchohol, (CH3)3COH, and barium peroxide. Reacting phenol, C6H5OH, with barium peroxide would only make barium phenolate and hydrogen peroxide.

Essentially, the answer to your question is no, it is not possible. Typically to make an organic peroxide, a ketone or aldehyde is used. I have also remember reading something many years ago about reacting methylene chloride with sodium peroxide to make methylene peroxide, a very dangerously sensitive explosive, but I cannot find anything about this now on the internet, and since I had first seen this my knowledge of chemistry has become much expanded so that I have serious doubts about whether the reaction would even work. The original source was short on the details, but I think it must have been conducted in DMSO or propylene carbonate solvent, then left for >30 days to react.

turd - 4-11-2011 at 03:00

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
It is also generally not possible for three methoxy, -OCH3, groups to be an the same carbon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthoester

AndersHoveland - 4-11-2011 at 03:46

Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  
It is also generally not possible for three methoxy, -OCH3, groups to be an the same carbon.


Good thing I put that qualifier in before the "not".

turd - 4-11-2011 at 06:22

Now just remove the "not" and it will become a correct sentence. :P