Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Teen, 13 burns himself seriously with conc H2SO4

Teen, 13 burns himself seriously with conc H2SO4

mewrox99 - 30-10-2011 at 19:48

This happened so close to my locale that alot of my peers first thought it was me until seeing the age. It's so tragic that someone so young is disfigured for life from making a kw3lish mistake

By the sound of it, he added a quantity of KMnO4 to a beaker of sulfuric and it exploded expelling corrosive Mn2O7 at him

Here is the newspaper story:

A teenage boy who suffered significant acid burns to his face was doing experiments in his Wellington suburban garage when a beaker of sulfuric acid exploded.

The 13-year-old boy was with a friend in the Kilbirnie garage about noon on Saturday when they mixed an unknown chemical with the acid, Wellington City Council spokesman Richard MacLean said.

"When the two things got mixed, it exploded a beaker and that's how it ended up on his face."

The boy was rushed by ambulance in a serious condition to Hutt Hospital, which has a specialist burns unit, and had surgery on Saturday afternoon, a hospital spokeswoman said.

He had improved to a stable condition yesterday.

Five fire engines attended the scene, with firefighters donning protective suits to cleanup the chemicals.

Mr MacLean said a council hazardous substance officer had also attended, and spoke to the boy's friend. "It sounds like his friend wasn't hurt. His friend said they were just pottering around, doing a few experiments."

Police seized some of the chemicals, Mr MacLean said.

"Our people will be working with police on it because the question has to be, just what chemicals were there?"

Yesterday, a neighbour, who did not wish to be named, said loud explosions had been heard from the Crawford Rd property periodically over the past two years.

hkparker - 30-10-2011 at 23:10

I once had my friends asking if I had been hurt when I similar thing happened a few blocks from me.

What a kewlish thing to do, quite sad though. I hope he is ok, and this doesn't make things harder for you.

Wizzard - 31-10-2011 at 04:46

At least this story is not terrorist-hyped as most things like this become (with the exception of the 'explosions... periodically over the past 2 years' part.

Also, this sounds like the parents should have been more involved.

Bot0nist - 31-10-2011 at 05:48

Yeah, it is good it is not being slanted toward terror, but the phrase worries me.

Quote:

"Our people will be working with police on it because the question has to be, just what chemicals were there?"

13 seems a bit young, but I had a chemistry set at that age. No sulfuric acid in more than a 25 ml or so. A little supervision would have gone a long way. It is to bad that many parents don't take an interest in their children's hobbies. Exploring chemistry at a young age is a great way to learn and appreciate the natural world, but it is not without risks.

AndersHoveland - 31-10-2011 at 18:26

This type of problem could be avoided if he was wearing a face shield. Acid resistant full body suits are not very expensive also. If a woman wants to buy concentrated acid for her son, the seller behind the desk should require her to buy a face shield and long-sleeved nitrile gloves, or show her sons safety wear that the boy already has.

Notice my assumptions of gender- it is a female parent buying the chemicals and a male child doing the experimenting. The person selling the chemicals is usually a man. It is rarely any different! Even when female children do chemistry experiments, concentrated acid tends not to be involved.

Wizzard - 1-11-2011 at 05:01

Concentrated 98% H2SO4 is available OTC without any questions asked as drain cleaner- Only an ID is necessary around these parts... Maybe it's different down under?

mewrox99 - 1-11-2011 at 10:58

Update:

A teenager who suffered acid burns to his face during an experiment in a Kilbirnie shed has a history of setting off alarming explosions in his backyard, neighbours say.

The Wellington High School pupil, aged 13, was rushed to Hutt Hospital for surgery on Saturday after a beaker of sulfuric acid exploded in his face at his Crawford Rd home about midday after the acid was mixed with another chemical. A Hutt Hospital spokeswoman said the boy was "recovering well" and should be discharged in the next day or so.

Yesterday, one neighbour said that over the past two years they had heard loud explosions that sounded like rifle fire and had then seen clouds of smoke.

"I've seen him setting off explosive devices in the backyard with friends on occasions . . . I heard him warning his sister about dangerous chemicals from the explosions."

Another neighbour said they once saw a fireball rise about four metres from the property. "One of the explosions was so loud I felt it in my chest from 30 or 40 metres away. They just got bigger and bigger."

A third neighbour initially thought the explosions were gunshots.

"When I heard him laughing was when I eventually figured it out."

Wellington High School principal Prue Kelly said the science teacher of the Year 9 pupil was certain the chemicals had not come from the school.

"[The boy] has been doing this sort of thing for quite a while. He's very interested in doing experiments at home. That is what the general understanding here is, without knowing any of the detail of his activities.

"He's here five hours a day; he's at home for 19 hours of the day."

The school had found in the past that older pupils had bought chemicals such as sulfuric acid online.

"I do know it's relatively easy to buy it online.

"Let's face it, kids will experiment. We used to experiment when we were kids, especially at this time of the year - Guy Fawkes."

Wellington City Council spokesman Richard MacLean said the council's hazardous substance officers had not been able to determine where the "variety" of chemicals in the shed had come from.

"Some chemicals appeared to be legitimately bought, but others were in containers that were not clearly labelled so it's a bit of a mystery . . . We know sulfuric acid and potassium permanganate were possibly the two chemicals that were involved in the explosion."

The officers were writing reports on the incident and would co-operate with any police action.

Police were still investigating the incident and had included their youth education arm.

Detective Senior Sergeant Dave Thornton said police were involved "because of the nature of the chemicals involved and people letting off explosives".

Adas - 5-11-2011 at 00:48

This happened to my father and his friends, too. The acid got also into his eyes! It was a miracle that he didn't lost his eyesight. Fortunately, nobody was injured, but their whole clothing was destroyed. Mn2O7 is pretty dangerous stuff

Hexavalent - 8-1-2012 at 08:59

I'm 13 and I keep 1 litre of conc. sulfuric acid in the garage lab . . . you learn a lot more about lab safety when you're on your own than when a teacher is with you - you burn yourself, you gotta know what to do. You set the fumehood/carpet/lab on fire, you gotta know what to do. You accidentally create a runaway reaction - you gotta know what to do. No one can be held accountable for your mistakes but you.

Here's the lab, although it has changed considerably since this was filmed;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7KGbvaWR0k

Pulverulescent - 8-1-2012 at 09:09

Quote:

Here's the lab, although it has changed considerably since this was filmed.

I sure hope so ─ you know what they say 'bout tidy labs?
You're only 13; may you have many fun years messing it up!

P

entropy51 - 8-1-2012 at 19:17

Quote: Originally posted by Hexavalent

I'm 13 and I keep 1 litre of conc. sulfuric acid in the garage lab . . .

Only a liter? When I was your age I bought a whole gallon of sulfuric. Paid $2 for it in 1964 when dinosaurs roamed the earth. I took it home that night and made ether, using...you guessed it...a Bunsen burner for the distillation. The only problem I had was that both my parents had undergone surgery with ether anesthesia and they positively detested the smell of it.

Soon holes would appear in my blue jeans every time my mom washed them. A whole new source of discontent. I eventually learned to account for every drop of sulfuric and my pants remained intact.

Apparently I forgot that skill. Last month I made about a liter of 34% HCl because the hardware stores here no longer sell it. When I washed my pants, sure enough, a 3 cm square hole appeared just above the knee.

Magpie - 8-1-2012 at 21:03

Entropy: I recommend the wearing of a plastic apron when pouring sulfuric acid. I still have mine from 1961

Sedit - 8-1-2012 at 21:40

I do the same thing all the time, Its good to know I'm not the only one here eating holes in my cloths with Sulfuric. I noticed Nitrate solutions wreak havoc on cloth as well and Im not 100% sure why.

I now use one of my old bath robes when working with the stuff and wouldn't you know it, not a hole in the thing yet. Either Iv gotten more careful or thats some tough shit who knows.

peach - 9-1-2012 at 05:09

Quote: Originally posted by Sedit

I now use one of my old bath robes.

That is an amusing bit of mental imagery! Start smoking a pipe to complete the look, taking it out occasionally to poke at the glass with the stem.

The explanation was complete early on;

Quote:

Yesterday, a neighbour, who did not wish to be named, said loud explosions had been heard from the Crawford Rd property periodically over the past two years.

Quite possible they've seen this reaction, and then seen it again for a very brief period in person before the products hit them.

There is no way anyone, particularly a 13 year old, should be playing around with something like this. As the individual in this post has demonstrated, and the video it's self demonstrates, the chances of ending up full of bits of glass and scarred for life are high. If you ignore the examples and mix it up, it'll explode in front of you and you'll only realize how stupid it was when you awaken from the adrenaline induced daydream on the way to hospital; assuming you're not already dead. Cuts, burns and holes in underpants from sulphuric are all part of learning, it shouldn't start and then quickly end with such severe damage for such a boring result.

There are numerous examples of people doing this on youtube - going as far as hand sized pipe bombs made of steel pipe nipples and caps, that they're playing with like toys. Claiming to be trained professionals, despite being teens. No professional chemists would have any interest in repeating those examples in a lab. Similarly, no trained pyrotechnician* is going to bother with it as it's useless for displays. Neither is it of much use for quarry blasting. Precisely what this training and profession is, I can't tell.

*A trained pyrotechnician is over the age of 18. They have a CAT certificate and probably an apprenticeship with more than one registered pyrotechnics company. They are insured and don't use high explosives or horrendously unstable materials. There are many small pyrotechnics companies in the US. If you are interested in explosives, see if there's a local one and write them a polite email asking how you could get involved and what is required. Expect a negative result (as you are not old enough to be covered on their insurance), but you may be pleasantly surprised; e.g. taken along to a personal display to help make the tea whilst they gauge whether or not your sensible enough to be there. Do not mention high explosives, being an expert, how you've blown the shit out of a toaster or the DIY pipe bomb that didn't go to plan. They will be sorely unimpressed.

<iframe sandbox width="640" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/6o3CK6kXbT4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Edited on 9-1-2012 by peach]

quicksilver - 9-1-2012 at 07:58

"Mistake", "accident", or negligence? I'm sorry, but I cannot get that sympathetic toward some kid who didn't do his homework and suffered the consequences. If a person wants to gamble with their eyes hands, genitals & general disfigurement, they are ruining a hobby interest that has opened up worlds of curiosity in science for a great many people.

People posting on uTube and claiming to be "professionals" are, frankly full of shit. The type 20 users license is in the context of a work-related agenda. Blowing a little hole in soil or something similar would violate the context of the license and the work-surrounding's insurance / or his personal liability. NO ONE - NO ONE would put their livelihood at risk by doing something that immature. No one who has worked in a professional setting would give a fat rat's ass about some teeny-bomber display. Overwhelmingly, the information on uTube is incomplete, or totally false. It is obviously 2nd hand and not to even be considered a source of value.

It is generally when someone thinks they know enough that they become dangerous. The minute someone thinks "it can't happen to them" is generally when the odds go way up that it will.

Hexavalent - 10-1-2012 at 12:02

I know that the user ScienceHideout had a video about Acetone Peroxide deleted on YouTube because it 'violated their terms of use'.

Fusionfire - 21-1-2012 at 11:29

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist

I loved chemistry when I was in high school. I remember one of my chemistry teachers being so supportive as to my interests as to say "The school lab is yours, do what you what after hours, I'll be in the adjoining room if you need any help."

I didn't take Chemistry when it came time to go to university because I also love building things - engines, contraptions, devices, etc. But it was a hard choice.

That said taking a walk in a nature reserve is a good way to appreciate the natural world too, but not without risks.

The problem is that most societies today are petrified about risks. The " 'elf and safe tea" manager at my previous workplace banned us engineers from stacking up used plastic cups too high because....it might fall on us and hurt us. Plastic cups fall on you and hurt you! Good heavens!

Magpie - 21-1-2012 at 13:50

Quote: Originally posted by Fusionfire

The problem is that most societies today are petrified about risks.

Except for popular sports like US football, boxing, hockey, etc. In fact, in hockey the referees stand by while the players engage in fist fights. This is all for the pleasure of the crowd, of course.