Sciencemadness Discussion Board

This is compete chemophobia.

DeathAdder - 19-10-2011 at 13:48

Check out this link
http://www.cracked.com/article_19481_the-8-most-wildly-irresponsible-vintage-toys_p2.html
look at the last 3. I admit some of those are dangerous like the calcium carbide gun, and actelyene is explosive but ammonium nitrate isn't explosive without a detonator or being shot, with a .223 or more, and also requeres you to use diesel or gas with a blasting cap. Tell me what you think.


[Edited on 19-10-2011 by DeathAdder]

[Edited on 20-10-2011 by DeathAdder]

Bot0nist - 19-10-2011 at 14:35

Haven't checked the link yet, but I can gat AN with a few percents of powdered aluminum to det. with a twenty- two magnum about about 3 out of five times.

Sorry, I know that's off topic to what your going for.

AndersHoveland - 19-10-2011 at 15:00

Obviously the writer knows nothing about science, or was just trying to make some point for the purpose of making for an entertaining article.

Western societies have become too restrictive and overprotective, while no restraint has been put on the legal systems imposing irrational and excessive fines, which has caused liability paranoia.

Articles about the Public's Fear of Home Chemistry:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.06/chemistry_pr.html
http://members.tm.net/lapointe/ChemTox.htm
http://12angrymen.wordpress.com/2007/10/31/endangered-specie...

fledarmus - 19-10-2011 at 15:31

Those are irresponsible toys? Oh, come on! How about those mini-bikes that you could do 30 mph through the woods on, with wheels the size of a dinner plate and no helmet? How about a .22 rifle, or a .410 shotgun, sized just right so a 10 year old can go hunting with his father? Or child-sized bows that shot real arrows with real points on them? Or go to a museum and check out the suits of armor sized for young princes, or sword and dagger sets just perfect for smaller hands.

There is a purpose to educational toys. It is to teach children on tools that are small enough and gentle enough for them to handle without being in more danger just from trying to control the tool. Trying to teach a child to use a drill that's bigger than he is is far more dangerous than teaching him to use one his own size that won't drill a hole in anything harder than balsa. And might scratch him if he isn't careful, rather than ripping his fingers off. Children don't magically learn how to handle power tools by turning 18. Not even irons. They don't magically learn how to drive, they don't magically learn how to control themselves around alcohol, and they don't magically learn not to gas themselves with ammonia and bleach while cleaning the bathtub.

Let's face it, kids learn a whole lot faster than adults do, and keeping kids from doing something because it is dangerous just gives you adults that are afraid to do anything at all, and don't know how to do it safely anyway.

AndersHoveland - 19-10-2011 at 17:07

I am buying my children one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyOtIsnG71U&feature=relat...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmtbLu5nxw&feature=relat...

[Edited on 20-10-2011 by AndersHoveland]

DeathAdder - 19-10-2011 at 17:41

Bot0nist I have not heard of that happening without a strong oxidizer like KCI04. But where i live you can buy .22 explosive rounds because they are so small.(brand name TNT but I'm confident that they contain no Trinitotoluene.) But also are you using a pistol or a rifle, the foot-pounds of energy would differ between the two. But i have a few cold packs in my closet that are not doing anything currently so I'll have to try that out except 2 bad things about that are I live in the suburbs and my rifle is chambered in .22 long rifle not magnum.;) :P

Zander - 20-10-2011 at 13:54

I'm kinda shocked that they didn't single out the Lone Ranger Atomic Bomb Ring (A spinthariscope with built in polonium alpha source). 15 cents and a Kix boxtop and it could be yours!

Also in more recent history: mercury maze toys. Loved the one I had as a kid.

To be fair, that calcium carbide gun does look terrifyingly flimsy and easy to jam more dangerous projectiles into.

fledarmus - 20-10-2011 at 17:14

Quote: Originally posted by DeathAdder  
Bot0nist I have not heard of that happening without a strong oxidizer like KCI04. But where i live you can buy .22 explosive rounds because they are so small.(brand name TNT but I'm confident that they contain no Trinitotoluene.) But also are you using a pistol or a rifle, the foot-pounds of energy would differ between the two. But i have a few cold packs in my closet that are not doing anything currently so I'll have to try that out except 2 bad things about that are I live in the suburbs and my rifle is chambered in .22 long rifle not magnum.;) :P


What are usually called "exploding bullets", including both the CCI TNT Green .22s and the Speer TNT bullets, are actually hollowpoint expanding bullets and there is nothing "explosive" about them. Hollowpoints (or "dum-dums") are frequently called exploding bullets in the media (see egNorway gunman used exploding bullets because they expand so much when they hit the body.

Yes, there are some true exploding bullets - the "Devastator" bullets have a small quantity of lead azide in the nose, and are supposed to detonate when they hit bone. Originally developed for the sky marshals so the bullets wouldn't go through the plane if they missed the person, they were most infamously used in the assasination attempt on President Reagan.

This is an interesting article on the subject - The Exploding Bullet

DeathAdder - 21-10-2011 at 18:30

Thanks fledarmus for spotting my mistake i checked into it and that is deceptive marketing oh well that's life.

Intergalactic_Captain - 22-10-2011 at 01:36

Ha! Read that article a few days ago and had to ponder how exactly the NH4NO3 added anything at all - Potential oxidizer to make the bang a little bigger? I thought a bit about how I might go about building one, but then remembered the potato cannons I built with my dad when I was 12... Still use the "big one" (4" chamber, 2" barrel) from time to time, can put a golf ball through 1/2" plywood at 50 yards - Right on the "irresponsibly dangerous" level when it comes to toys.

I'm kind of surprised that they didn't include the magnetic building sets (Magnetix and etc.) on the market in recent past - The good ones had the magnets sealed into the plastic when molded, but the cheapos were just glued in. Someone should have realized that small children eat small things and what would result... Like the little girl who had here intestines pinned together after eating several dozen supermagnets from these toys... Yes, they're fun, but you probably shouldn't give them to your toddler...

...Or the aquadots that contained GBL... Thomas the Tank engine with lead paint... Melamine contaminated pet food (childrens toy as in "daddy, is sparky gonna wake up soon?") - This is a separate issue from poor design, but certain things reliant on actual quality assurance shouldn't be subcontracted to the lowest bidder... Anyone want to place bets on when the next acute kidney failure epidemic will come? Someone, somewhere, will once again realize that it's cheaper to slap a COA on a barrel of ethylene glycol rather than propylene glycol and not realize that the end use will be children's cough syrup...

...A rant of sorts, but in the past we realized that our children were more capable than we give them credit for these days... A dremel tool, a potato cannon, and a weedeater taught me far more at the age of 12 than my little sister, who just turned 13, will ever learn when it comes to personal responsibility and respect for how things work. And cosidering I'm only 24, I can only imagine how much common sense my generation lost (or never discovered?) compared to some of the older of you here...

EDIT - Forgot to mention that that's not chemophobia - It's more along the lines of the "Holy shit, you gave your kid a gun?" mentality in modern society. I've been schooled in proper firearm safety and usage since I could understand what I was doing - Imagine handing an 8 year old a 22 today... There's a good chance you could be fucked for child endangerment. Hand that same kid the same gun for the first time 10 years later when he can legally buy one? Well, he just missed out on the 10 years of mental preparation that would stop him from getting hammered and shooting stop signs for shits and giggles... I can't even give my sister a BB-gun for her birthday out of fear that her stepdad would confiscate it simply because "she's too young"...

[Edited on 10-22-11 by Intergalactic_Captain]

DeathAdder - 23-10-2011 at 14:50

Interesting, what i was thinking when i posted this was sh!t KMNO4 and because everything is technically a chemical this (stupidly I know but I was enraged at that point) would qualify as chemo-phobia. as to the bb gun you learn by doing so when you shoot yourself in the foot by being careless with a gun, well you learn. Nothing should stop a kid from learning about anything they want from math to physics to chemistry because something *MIGHT* happen to "traumatize" a kid's sheltered life.

bdbstone - 25-3-2012 at 13:58

OH, SHIT this is a COMPLETELLY irresponsible set. How they include Potassium Permanganate and ammonium nitrate(The same set that your MOTHER put in soil to garden those roses!!!) is beyond me.. HOW COMPLETELLY IRRESPONSIBLE, HOW COULD THEY DO THAT!!! I mean, don't they everhave response to the small kids, and put something more appropriate. Like the REAL pistol, so they can shoot all the mean kids in their backyard.. I mean, how completelly, uterrless bastards.. I know the 50s were pretty fucked up.. but when I see this article I am pretty sure about that..

And Potassium Permanganate is more than they say in this article. Its actually, pretty powerfull explosive, you can make bombs out of this 10gr, and blow up a school(If you don't blow yourself up!). How completelly irresponsible!!!

[Edited on 25-3-2012 by bdbstone]

neptunium - 26-3-2012 at 07:21

this is the same old debate about self liability and taking ownership for one's actions.
frivolous lawsuit (and 9/11) have completly destroyed these notions that were not even an issue a few decades ago.
I have played with chemistry sets in my younger days in the 70's and 80's .there were KMnO4 and ammonium nitrate in them. dont remember even hearing about any problems or accidents then. why should it be different today?

What the kids watch on TV today is far more dangerous and stupid than anything a chemistry set or a high voltage power supply could be with a 8 year old and his dad supervising the child.

Yet we let our kids (dont have any myself by the way) watch big rich texas, the bad girls club and other equaly irrelevant garbage on TV all day. turning a blind eye on science, demonising chemistry and making fun of nerds is far more dangerous for society in general than a few grams of permaganate could ever be.

Just thinking that these kids will be allowed to vote in a decade gives me diahrea.

AndersHoveland - 27-3-2012 at 01:17

I played with a calcium carbide toy cannon as a young child (when my parents were not watching me), and I would not hesitate to buy this again for my children. I think age 10 years is appropriate to start these types of toys. Age 14 for a rifle.

Eddygp - 3-4-2012 at 08:44

Potassium permanganate isn't nearly as toxic as carbon monoxide, and whenever a kid walks behind a car, the exhaust fumes contains some of this.