Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Getting into tafe

Chemistry Alchemist - 15-10-2011 at 02:46

I never really done chemistry at school b4 but i really do love chemistry, and all my friends think i should go and do it at tafe but i dont know what ill be up for? what would i have to know/learn b4 applying for a certificate III or IV in chemistry? so im not out of my depth...

francis - 16-10-2011 at 20:18

Why not do it at Uni? How old are you?

I'm doing a Bachelor of Science with a Chemistry major. The UAI (or whatever it is called where you are) was pretty low, like 70 entry.

Also you don't have to choose your major until second year, so if you decide you don't like chemistry after all, you can change to any number of other areas.

Or if you only have your School Certificate, and you didnt get your HSC, you could do the TPC (tertiary preparation certificate) which is basically a 1 year course, which at the end of, you get a UAI equivalent and you can use that to get into Uni.

If you contact your local uni they will tell you about the entry requirements.

Most Universities have things called 'Bridging Courses', which cost a couple of hundred dollars and over a couple of days they teach you the very basics of the couse.

At my Uni there is a chemistry bridging course among others.

If you live in Wollongong, at UOW we run a program called UStart for students who have trouble with money, are of Indigenous descent, or come from outside of the Illawarra. Those who attend UStart, have their bridging courses paid for.

To answer your question:
I don't know what they cover in TAFE courses, if you contact your local TAFE they will be able to tell you.

If you just want to learn more about Chemistry, you definately don't need to go to TAFE, you'll save money by buying a first-year Chemistry textbook.

I guess what a TAFE chemistry short course would have is stuff about unit conversions, moles and molarity, what are cations, anions, rate laws, acid-base chemistry, solubilities, endothermic and exothermic reactions, Hess's law, Lewis Structures, VSEPR, electronic configurations, orbitals, Gas Laws..not sure what else (this was the kind of stuff I learned in my First session of first year at Uni).

Probably there'll be lots of volumetric stuff, lots of acid-base titrations in the lab.

If you get a cheap copy of Brown, LeMay and Burston (or any other first year textbook...or even just use the resources available online) and you go through the first half of the book, you will already know enough for the first session of University and easily enough for the theory side of a TAFE course.

I can list the chapters if you like, then you can go and read about those topics, that would be the best preparation.

Also your algebra should be enough that you can manipulate simple equations like C=nV to find one variable.

OK here are the first Chapters of the my first year textbook:
(the stuff I had to know for first session, first year Uni):

1 Introduction to matter, measurement and molecules
2. Stochiometry: calculations with chemical formulas and equations
3. Aqueous reactions and solution stochiometry
4. Thermochemistry
5. Electronic structure of atoms
6. Periodic properties of the elements
7. Basic concepts of chemical bonding
8. Molecular geometry and bonding theories
9. Gases
10. Intermolecular forces, liquids and solids
11. Properties of solutions
12. Chemical kinetics
13. Chemical equilibrium
14. Acid-base equilibria
15. Additional aspects of acid-base equilibria
16. Chemistry of the environment
17. Chemical thermodynamics
18. Electrochemistry
(and from the rest we did it in second session..the rest of the chapters are just for reference:

19. Chemistry of the nonmetals
20. Chemistry of coordination compounds
21. Alkanes: scaffolds for organic chemistry
22. Alkenes, alkynes and arenes
23. Organic molecules containing oxygen
24. The Chemical Detective
25. Bioorganic Chemistry: The Chemistry of Life

Again:
I think a TAFE course will have lots of stuff on stochiometry (moles, chemical formulas etc), on properties of chemical bonding (covalent versus ionic etc), on acid base equilibria, and probably on kinetics (maybe the first 15 chapters I mentioned).

Good luck, if you need any help let me know, studying chemistry is good fun, I imagine regardless of where you do it.


francis - 16-10-2011 at 20:23

I just wanted to add after checking out your YouTube channel, its mighty impressive - and learning the theory behind the experiments you're doing will make them more interesting, and you'll think up a greater number of things you'd like to find out by experimentation.


Chemistry Alchemist - 16-10-2011 at 20:32

Im 18, finished yr 12 last year with no chemistry during high school, i know some basics but not alot... so u reckon a bridge course at uni for something? i do have a really big interest in chemistry, not like all the other hobby's ive picked up and then forgotten about... are u from NSW or somewhere else?

francis - 16-10-2011 at 20:50

Yep I'm from Wollongong in NSW, I go to UOW.

Yeah, the bridging courses are what they run for people who haven't taken any chemistry in high school.

But chemistry as a hobby may be different from chemistry as a degree.

Because lots of the chemistry degree is learning things that might seem boring, and requires you to stick it out.

Some parts of chemistry you may not enjoy learning, as with any course, there are parts you will take to, and others you may not take ot.

That's why I'd reccomend learning, just from any internet site, about stochiometry to begin with. If you find you are able to study the early topics I mentioned, you will have no trouble with the Uni course material.

Also if you are in Wollongong, and qualify for UStart, you can get the bridging course for free.

Chemistry Alchemist - 16-10-2011 at 22:11

Im from Perth... unfortionally

francis - 17-10-2011 at 03:24

No problem, I'm sure the courses at UWA or the other universities in your area offer the same, or similar things re: bridging courses.

What was your final mark in your HSC? Did you intend on going to University?

There are different types of chemistry courses available, depending on the University...eg at UOW you can do a Bachelor of Science (Chemistry), a Bachelor of Medicinal Chemistry or a Bachelor in Chemical Engineering.

You can contact the local Uni to find out.

Or if you just wanna do a TAFE course, send them an email (whichever is your closest TAFE). Or call them, or go and ask.

But remember, a big part of what TAFE courses offer, you can learn yourself, either from a textbook or online. It's not like they own the knowledge.

It is good to be able to learn lab techniques, and use a proper laboratory, though, so there is that much to be said for a Uni or TAFE course.

Chemistry Alchemist - 17-10-2011 at 04:43

Final Mark as in the grades of the classes i took or the overall park, i didnt really intend to go to uni, only tafe. im pretty sure at one of the the uni has Bachelor of chemical engineering and science (chemistry), i wouldnt mind being a chemist really... but its alot of effort... i mainly just wanna learn the basics so i can just work it out on my own with out google...

Amy Winehouse - 17-10-2011 at 07:16

Chemical Engineering ftw

SmashGlass - 17-10-2011 at 12:54

Well a chemistry (I'd go for analytical, water or inorganic), geo-chemistry and or chemical engineering degree would set you up in the WA pretty well with your pick of mining company. 18 is a great age to get into it (you'd be out by 25, with a PhD). Don't waste your time with TAFE, honestly. You can go there, but to get further in your career you will have to go to Uni anyway. So just hit the books and study hard. You might impress yourself. It seems you can get a lot of help from this forum (and others) if you really hit a hard patch.

Organic chemistry is a nice hobby but unfortunately the job opportunities are drying up, for the time being, all over the world.
I should know, I have a PhD in organic chemistry and I get paid less than a road construction worker.

Good luck with it.

francis - 17-10-2011 at 16:57

Quote: Originally posted by Chemistry Alchemist  
Final Mark as in the grades of the classes i took or the overall park, i didnt really intend to go to uni, only tafe. im pretty sure at one of the the uni has Bachelor of chemical engineering and science (chemistry), i wouldnt mind being a chemist really... but its alot of effort... i mainly just wanna learn the basics so i can just work it out on my own with out google...


I mean your overall mark, the mark that determines your entry to Uni. I think it's called an ATAR now?

A great resource for teaching yourself the basics of chemistry is the Khan Academy: it has a series of 10 minute videos that will teach you everything a TAFE course will.

http://www.khanacademy.org/#chemistry

Also, here is the first semester General Chemistry course from UC Berkeley, its video lectures. This follows basically the same format as my first year stuff, and will set you up nicely:

http://academicearth.org/lectures/chemicals-molecules

Check out that site for other General Chemistry video lectures if you don't like the Berkeley ones. They should all cover the same areas.

As SmashGlass said, setting yourself up for a career in Chemistry is a good idea - at uni you will learn lots of chemistry that you didn't know existed and you'll find parts of chemistry that you enjoy very much.

Also, with a Bachelor of Science you don't have to go into chemistry - even with a chemistry major.
You could go into a variety of science related fields, the opportunities are vast.

I have had lots of fun studying chemistry. It's required lots of effort, for sure...but the pleasure of finding something out is quite profound.
This is coming from someone who entered Uni studying in the creative arts.

All the same if you want to know the basics, like I said: start with stochiometry, balancing equations etc. Then electronic configurations, atomic orbitals, then the periodic trends (how various properties of atoms change along rows and up and down columns in the periodic table). Then this will inform you as to how the different types of bonding.
Quote: Originally posted by SmashGlass  
Organic chemistry is a nice hobby but unfortunately the job opportunities are drying up, for the time being, all over the world.
I should know, I have a PhD in organic chemistry and I get paid less than a road construction worker.

Good luck with it.


SmashGlass, I know your location says Scandanavia, but have you lived in Australia? Or do you at the moment?

Sad to hear about organic chemistry prospects drying up worldwide.

[Edited on 18-10-2011 by francis]

SmashGlass - 18-10-2011 at 06:04

Yeah mate. I'm from Oz originally but moved north for work.
Ended up really far north though. That's how far you have to
travel when you are specialized. Can't complain really.
I have a steady job, but times are tough presently thats all.

Good luck to all in your scientific endeavours.

Your Chemical brother,

-SmashGlass-