Sciencemadness Discussion Board

Why is oxone so cheap?

Budzsta - 17-8-2011 at 18:31

Hey everyone,

This is my first post, I am working with a lab at UNSW as a medicinal chemist.
Second year PhD. So far so good.

We have problem sessions on every once and a while and one of the problem questions was:

What is the formula for Oxone and why is it so cheap?

I am assuming it is a by-product of an industrial process although I can not find any reference anywhere?

Does anyone happen to know of the top of their head?

Thanks,

The WiZard is In - 17-8-2011 at 18:47

Quote: Originally posted by Budzsta  
Hey everyone,

This is my first post, I am working with a lab at UNSW as a medicinal chemist.
Second year PhD. So far so good.



Can'f find any refs on Oxone™... Second year PhD! If you can find
any refs go back to your day job — standing behind a garage tuck,
this is where you belong.

Or be more specific on what chem you dobe looking for. A CAS number would be large help if'n you are not looking for Oxone™.

watson.fawkes - 17-8-2011 at 19:15

First hit for "oxone" on google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_peroxymonosulfate

Budzsta - 17-8-2011 at 19:19

Quote: Originally posted by The WiZard is In  


Can'f find any refs on Oxone™... Second year PhD! If you can find
any refs go back to your day job — standing behind a garage tuck,
this is where you belong.

Or be more specific on what chem you dobe looking for. A CAS number would be large help if'n you are not looking for Oxone™.
Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  
First hit for "oxone" on google: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_peroxymonosulfate


I can find a thousand references for what Oxone is, and how it is used as an oxidant in chemical synthetic processes you moron, but I can not find out if it is a byproduct of an industrial process or why it is so cheap.

In fact, Oxone is comprised of three salts; Potassium Peroxymonosulphate, Potassium bisulphate and Potassium Sulfate.
The crude make up of such a versatile oxidant suggests it is an industrial byproduct however I specifically can not determine which industrial process.

I guess I should of specified the question in more detail for the less educated.


[Edited on 18-8-2011 by Budzsta]

not_important - 17-8-2011 at 19:42

No, it is intentionally produced - the triple salt is about the only useful stable form of peroxymonosulfuric acid (Caro's acid). I believe it is made by mixing H2SO4 and H2O2, then adding K2SO4 but that's just an ancient memory.

Budzsta - 17-8-2011 at 20:47

Quote: Originally posted by not_important  
No, it is intentionally produced - the triple salt is about the only useful stable form of peroxymonosulfuric acid (Caro's acid). I believe it is made by mixing H2SO4 and H2O2, then adding K2SO4 but that's just an ancient memory.



Hmm, I was under the impression that H2SO4 and H2O2 (solution) in various ratio's (generally 3:1, when I use it) made Piranha Juice, used as a cleaning agent for glassware in the lab? I will try to find out more information,

Thanks a lot :).

hissingnoise - 18-8-2011 at 01:45

Moron?
Less educated?
Nice start, asshole!

Mildronate - 18-8-2011 at 01:57

I had seen differnt product with same name, it was H202 for milk container cleaning with trademark name "Okson".

watson.fawkes - 18-8-2011 at 02:30

So let me get this right. First you want us to do your homework.
Quote: Originally posted by Budzsta  
We have problem sessions on every once and a while and one of the problem questions was:

What is the formula for Oxone and why is it so cheap?
So since you're asking for the formula in this first post, it seems apparent you hadn't had even the first thought of looking for it. Having received your first clue, you now become high and mighty.
Quote: Originally posted by Budzsta  
In fact, Oxone is comprised of three salts; Potassium Peroxymonosulphate, Potassium bisulphate and Potassium Sulfate.
[...]
I guess I should of specified the question in more detail for the less educated.
What I guess is that you'll fail out of your PhD program from laziness. It took me all of three minutes to find out how it's manufactured, at least in its basics. Since you are, by your own account, better educated than me, I'm sure it will only take you two.

solo - 18-8-2011 at 03:21

Information from one of the producers of Oxone....solo

http://www2.dupont.com/Oxone/en_US/tech_info/index.html



[Edited on 18-8-2011 by solo]

Maus - 20-8-2011 at 13:30

Perhaps the reason Oxone is so cheap is due to:

* cheap raw materials
* easy production
* Production in very large scale for use in various industrial processes and consumer end use (e.g. spa sanitation) Commodification

I question the reasoning that assumes mixtures indicate the item must be a byproduct of an industrial process. For this material, does it actually exist as a "pure" material? Do all industrial processes necessarily produce pure compounds?

[Edited on 20-8-2011 by Maus]

White Yeti - 21-8-2011 at 11:30

This post reminds me of the first thread I posted. Man, I feel sorry for you, you're getting hammered down pretty hard. Welcome to sciencemadness, home of the intelligent yet ruthless. A straight forward answer is difficult to get on this forum apparently. When they talk like this, it means they don't know the answer to your question;)

Bot0nist - 22-8-2011 at 03:41

Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
This post reminds me of the first thread I posted. Man, I feel sorry for you, you're getting hammered down pretty hard. Welcome to sciencemadness, home of the intelligent yet ruthless. A straight forward answer is difficult to get on this forum apparently. When they talk like this, it means they don't know the answer to your question;)


Seems to me that some good information has been given. And a good pissing on too:P. I believe<a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17057#pid216407"> your first thread </a>here also yielded you some good advice/straight answers, and may have saved you...

not_important - 22-8-2011 at 06:00

Quote: Originally posted by Budzsta  
...
Hmm, I was under the impression that H2SO4 and H2O2 (solution) in various ratio's (generally 3:1, when I use it) made Piranha Juice, used as a cleaning agent for glassware in the lab? I will try to find out more information,

Thanks a lot :).


Absolutely correct, and Piranha solution contains Caro's acid. This illustrates why the triple salt is used, consider shipping Oxone vs shipping piranha solution; removing free acid and tying the peroxy function up in the triple salt really tames the stuff.

White Yeti - 25-8-2011 at 00:47

Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist  

Seems to me that some good information has been given. And a good pissing on too:P. I believe<a href="http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17057#pid216407"> your first thread </a>here also yielded you some good advice/straight answers, and may have saved you...



The problem with my first post was that my sources were biased, and I ended up sounding like an idiot.
*sigh*
You're right, I got lucky. Usually when a member posts a question that has an obvious answer, it's only a matter of time until "The WiZZard is in", "blogfast25" and other prominent users and administrators start hammering you down. Luckily I got a straight forward answer from the start.

I think that the transition from lesser forums and websites to scimad is pretty difficult. You get pretty intimidated, but in the end, it's for the better:)