Sciencemadness Discussion Board - Chemistry Student busted for meth lab

Chemistry Student busted for meth lab

francis - 8-7-2011 at 19:49

Sydney University student fronts court after being caught turning his flat into a meth lab:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-university-stud...

When police raided his Petersham unit, Tague told them he was "conducting scientific reactions at home from things learnt at school" and that he was "trying to hone his chemical skills", court documents said.

The cops found on his computer "complex drug manufacturing methodologies"

The article mentions that:
The 25-year-old, who took a drug design and development class, built a drug lab so elaborate it took workers three days to dismantle.

-----------------

This worries me, since I am trying to practice my chemistry skills at home before I am marked on them in the laboratory at Uni.
I am not doing anything illegal. But I wonder, would the police know the difference if they came to my door? Would they charge me anyway? Would they care?

What's also scary is that the story noted about how the kid took a 'drug design' subject or whatever. Which would be a fundamental part of any 3rd year pharmacology course!

How long will it be till all chemistry students are suspected drug manufacturers? Perhaps they already are!

Does anyone know about this individual? Did he plead guilty? Was he actually making the drugs or is it a media beat up?

Formula409 - 8-7-2011 at 19:56

Seems like he was from the article and he had tonnes of pictures incriminating himself as well. What I find worrying is this line "Tague came to the attention of police acting under Strikeforce Polmont, which had been monitoring Tague after he was noticed buying scientific glassware from overseas." It seems to be a common factor in most Aussie chemists (myself included) getting raided.

francis - 8-7-2011 at 20:03

I have bought my glassware from Wiltronics in Victoria, and some chemicals from overseas. I had to sign an end user declaration for some mercuric chloride which I bought, and for a distillation head and a condensor.

Have you been raided by the police?

I have very little knowledge of the law.

I don't mind 'coming to the attention' of the police - so long as they are aware I'm not committing any crimes.

Maybe home chemists and students who pursue chemistry outside of Uni, should speak to a lawyer or solicitor, in the case they do get raided by overzealous police?

That's what I'm thinking of doing - just so I can be informed about the legality of every aspect of home chemistry.

It's a pain though, I just want to do the stuff I do in the lab at Uni, without being scrutinised for every mistake by a lab demonstrator.

FrankRizzo - 8-7-2011 at 20:59

If you are doing legitimate research, why not use the lab at the uni? You're paying for use of the facilities, and you might find that your instructors are a lot more lenient than you think as long as you approach your experiments with respect and on the right scale. Also, if an instructor scrutinizes your mistakes, you are doing something incorrectly and should welcome the correction. It's very hard to get rid of bad habits once you've been in the field for some time.

Beginning chemists almost always start studying the subject for one of two reasons: drugs or explosives. Your professor is no different.

francis - 8-7-2011 at 21:38

Well at my Uni, we get marked on our erformance in the lab.

If I'm doing a titration and I muck something up, then I only get one result, I lose marks. I need to maintain a certain mark average to get into an Honours year.

So while I can prepare to a certain degree at home by reading over the processes, actually practicing helps immensely.

At Uni you're not allowed to be in the lab if a demonstrator isn't there...the labs are always full. They specify in the manual, "no overtime allowed" or something like that.

I will ask them anyway, but I should also like to do some chemistry at home, mostly analytical chemistry.

plastics - 9-7-2011 at 00:03

I think there is a subtle difference between being monitored for buying a few bits of glassware abroad and finding said glassware near 'a cupboard converted to grow cannabis in which Tague had installed hydroponic equipment and heating lamps'

Intergalactic_Captain - 9-7-2011 at 02:10

Without being an Australian, I'll wait to see how this develops further to see the full extent - Being an American, however, and knowing that you guys are actually HARSHER than we are with regards to calling things straight-up evil, I don't think this guy has a hope in hell...

First, what I believe will be proven - He was making meth. From this article, it's pretty unambiguous that this is the only thing he actually "manufactured"... And given what was on the list, it's the only thing he was actually capable of - MDMA is a possibility, though it's just as likely that he purchased or stole it... Without any numbers, it's a guessing game.

Now, just for the sake of semantics, one doesn't "manufacture" marijuana, one grows it. As evidenced by the grow-room mentioned. One also doesn't "manufacture" cocaine, as it is far more economical to simply buy it. 40 grams is a sizable amount, far more than any university should ever have on hand (If someone knows where an ounce of coke is, they WILL rob you)... Let's say he DID make it, the last I checked, the best-known methods involve resolution of two stereocenters, meaning a 160g minimum and realistically at the very least ~200g of wasted crap - Not entirely sure how valuable coke is in aus, but my bet is he bought it...

...The 3-day disassembly is intriguing, but let's face it - if you can work the word "chemical" into anything, a hazmat team will be involved - They're not going to get the job done quick, rather take as much time as they deem necessary to do the job "proper." If it is true that he stole glassware, it was probably beyond what is generally available (take the 3-neck texas thing) - At which point, the said "extremely dangerous thing here"...

All that said, the "meth lab" meme scares the living shit out of me. If you live on this planet, have a box of allergy meds in your cabinet, some paint thinner in the garage, and some drano under the sink, a crafty AG and his team can fuck you for life. Can't afford a good lawyer? You're screwed - Try fighting "manufacture" or "intent to manufacture" when the jury is bombarded with the simple fact that you A - Own everything needed, and B - are smarter than the average redneck who can figure out how to do it...

...Playing the devil's advocate now, is there any evidence connecting the meth found and the pics on his computer? I'll state now that I am 100% completely and totally against the existance of methamphetamine in the modern world for reasons far exceeding this topic... I'm also a member of this forum, have a copy of the hive archive, and a paperback of PIHKAL - Is that enough to assume intent? If I were a lawyer for the prosecution, I'd say that's more than enough - But is there anything that actually proves it? Who's to say this kid didn't buy some meth and hit up wet-dreams or download an old hive archive? The press ambiguity in EVERY case like this, I think, bugs me more than the actual details of whatever is actually going on...

My favorite meth story...

The WiZard is In - 9-7-2011 at 10:44

chemistry optional.

John Buettner-Janusch, 67, Dies; N.Y.U. Professor Poisoned Candy
By BRUCE LAMBERT
New York Times
Published: July 4, 1992

John Buettner-Janusch, a prominent anthropologist who was
convicted of making illicit drugs in his campus laboratory and who
then tried to kill the trial judge with poisoned candy, died on
Thursday at a medical center for Federal prisoners in Springfield,
Mo. He was 67 years old.

He died of pneumonia, said William B. Wachtel, his lawyer. He
added that Dr. Buettner-Janusch was in failing health and,
disheartened by a recent ruling that he would not be freed until
after the year 2000, had stopped eating and been force-fed.

Before his legal problems, Dr. Buettner-Janusch had a
distinguished career as an educator and researcher. Described by
colleagues as brilliant, he ranked among the nation's top 10
physical anthropologists. He specialized in genetics, biochemistry
and the evolution of simians and humans.

He served as chairman of New York University's anthropology
department from 1973 to 1979. He wrote over 100 articles in
scientific journals and a widely used text, "Origins of Man" (Wiley,
1966). He was the scientific chairman of the Caribbean Primate
Research Center and a member of the National Science
Foundation's anthropology panel and the board of the American
Association of Physical Anthropologists. Jailed in World War II

He supported civil rights and labor causes, opposed the Vietnam
War and was jailed as a conscientious objector in World War II, Mr.
Wachtel said. Known as B. J., he was flamboyant, with dyed blond
hair and expensive suits. Critics called him erratic and tyrannical.
He became depressed when his wife and colleague of 27 years,
Vina Mallowitz, died of cancer in 1977.

In 1979 a Federal indictment charged that he had converted his lab
into a drug factory, using his assistants to make LSD and
methaqualone for sale.

To the end, Dr. Buettner-Janusch maintained that he was innocent.
His lawyer hinted that students made the drugs and, when caught,
made the professor a scapegoat. The 1980 trial resulted in
convictions for making and possessing drugs, conspiracy and lying
to investigators. He was sentenced to five years but was paroled in
1983.

In 1987 he was charged with sending poisoned Valentine's Day
chocolates to the judge in the drug case, Charles L. Brieant Jr. The
judge's wife fell seriously ill after eating four pieces of Golden
Godiva candies but survived.

A print on the box from his little finger gave Dr. Buettner-Janusch
away. Adulterated candy was also sent to a former colleague at
Duke University, and authorities intercepted two other boxes. He
pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 20 years.

Born in Chicago, Dr. Buettner-Janusch grew up in Eagle River, Wis.
He graduated from the University of Chicago in 1948 and earned a
doctorate at the University of Michigan in 1957. From 1959 to
1965 he taught at Yale. From 1965 to 1973 he was at Duke.

Surviving is a sister, Teddy Letts of Omaha, Neb.

jon - 10-7-2011 at 11:42

how clever use his birthday as an occasion to send a gift from one of his colleagues, i like that idea!
i'll file that one away.

Jianaran - 16-7-2011 at 05:27

OK, a quick comment here before I return to lurking: I'm also at USYD, and while I didn't know this student I do know some of the staff/postgrad students involved in the drug design course he was taking. Apparently he was a real idiot: he blatantly bragged about how he was making drugs to his classmates/teachers, and the only reason he wasn't caught ages ago was that no-one went to the police about it. I'm imagine that police raids (or at least questionings) of those ordering glassware from overseas are fairly common, although I'm not entirely sure what their response would be to ordinary citizen chemists.
Funnily enough, the guy I was talking to's advice to us humble undergrads was to steal the glassware we needed if we ever decided to set up drug labs...

francis - 17-7-2011 at 05:55

Jianaran, do you know if this individual pled guilty? Or any more facts of the case?

For someone who would like to practice chemistry at home, to improve my skills for when I'm marked in the lab, it's disconcerting to see this sort of thing go on.

Jianaran, do you study chemistry at USYD? I am at Wollongong Uni.

All the glassware I've bought has been bought from Australia (Wiltronics). I'm not concerned about watch lists, but I don't want to be "raided" just for doing some experiments from my lab book.

I spoke to a solicitor about this and he mentioned environmental/council implications, which I will look further into.

Fantasma4500 - 21-2-2013 at 06:39

i dont mind that people do drugs, not at all. thats entirely the persons very own choice, tho it ruins the society, and if making it at home i see it as the same as filling steelpipes with unstable burning 2 seconds fuse with as much as 500 grammes of AP then im starting to get a bit pissed, when these things are busted and the police sees it, then theres put more focus on chemistry in general, and with explosives accidents, its believed that its more dangerous than it was before, making innocent look dangerous and insane, for instance the school shooting where they used explosives, or well attempted to use as much as 10 kg anfo...

as its said in my country ''its the few that ruins it for the many''

apart from that i see reason in creating a law forbidding potential dangers as in vast quanities of ap in steel pipes and the stuff alike in apartments, but the problem is just that theres is no line saying ''if you do it like this'' then its legal, its every bit that could be seen as ever being potentially dangerous
even tho cars are deadly, at daily basis..
logic.

IrC - 21-2-2013 at 17:11

Quote: Originally posted by francis

But I wonder, would the police know the difference if they came to my door?

Would they charge me anyway?

Would they care?

NO

YES

NO

disulfideprotein - 6-3-2013 at 11:50

I actually contacted some police in boise and talked about the legalitys of home chemistry. They said you will get in no trouble at all unless your makeing (illegal) drugs, or explosives. I told them they would be welcome to check out my chemistry lab for following any rules that might have been broken and they politely declined. I think its pretty good in boise for chemistry. I know in a lot of places they can be stupid but someplaces I think a lot of them are really nice. After all we have to look at it from two sides: Even with injustice and stupidity, even though we probably need to redo a many laws, we still need police, fire, and health services for our society to function. Even if its bad with police, at the current state we would be worse without them.

[Edited on 6-3-2013 by disulfideprotein]

elementcollector1 - 19-3-2013 at 07:32

Quote: Originally posted by disulfideprotein

I actually contacted some police in boise and talked about the legalitys of home chemistry. They said you will get in no trouble at all unless your makeing (illegal) drugs, or explosives. I told them they would be welcome to check out my chemistry lab for following any rules that might have been broken and they politely declined. I think its pretty good in boise for chemistry. I know in a lot of places they can be stupid but someplaces I think a lot of them are really nice. After all we have to look at it from two sides: Even with injustice and stupidity, even though we probably need to redo a many laws, we still need police, fire, and health services for our society to function. Even if its bad with police, at the current state we would be worse without them.

[Edited on 6-3-2013 by disulfideprotein]

I'm tempted to do the same, but there's still that part of me that's apprehensive about openly telling the police that I do "home chemistry". When someone is caught with meth or some other hazardous material in the area, guess where the first place they're going to look is?

mr.crow - 25-3-2013 at 19:45

Jesus, people! Stop asking cops to check your home out

I still think we need a forum for Aussies, they seem to have special issues

Pyro - 20-4-2013 at 14:03

lol,

they are... ''special''...